Ryanair exodus, what is the plan?
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If management want to stem the tide.
Keep 5/4, it is on the Ryanair website as a recruitment tool so they know its a valuable style of roster that allows people to commute and have a reasonable life.
5/3 is very difficult to work with re commuting resulting in one day at home before launching off again.
Stop pretending that FR is well paid it aint, if you look at any other decent airline total packages, FR's is one of the worst paid gigs in the short haul jet market not to mention the good contracts on offer in the Mid and far East.
How about as already mentioned a transparent base transfer list.
We work hard, very hard we are very efficient pilots, a cursory glance at any airports CDA and tracking info will reveal that.
We have the lowest level bust rate in the industry. Yes good SOP's but good pilots too. we run a fuel league which is not really a safety tool and not all that fair but it can be assessed and judged that we try hard to do our bit.
I'm not a left wing nut looking for equal treatment with management, they make tough decisions and should, if successful be rewarded.
However we as pilots make tough decisions every day and are at the coal face doing it, not talking about doing it.
For any FR management bods reading consider below.
STG equivalent ₤
All captains €100,000
Line trainers €120,000
TRI €130,000
TRE €150,000
Second officers €40,000
First Officer €55,000
Senior First officer €70,000
Keep 5/4, it is on the Ryanair website as a recruitment tool so they know its a valuable style of roster that allows people to commute and have a reasonable life.
5/3 is very difficult to work with re commuting resulting in one day at home before launching off again.
Stop pretending that FR is well paid it aint, if you look at any other decent airline total packages, FR's is one of the worst paid gigs in the short haul jet market not to mention the good contracts on offer in the Mid and far East.
How about as already mentioned a transparent base transfer list.
We work hard, very hard we are very efficient pilots, a cursory glance at any airports CDA and tracking info will reveal that.
We have the lowest level bust rate in the industry. Yes good SOP's but good pilots too. we run a fuel league which is not really a safety tool and not all that fair but it can be assessed and judged that we try hard to do our bit.
I'm not a left wing nut looking for equal treatment with management, they make tough decisions and should, if successful be rewarded.
However we as pilots make tough decisions every day and are at the coal face doing it, not talking about doing it.
For any FR management bods reading consider below.
STG equivalent ₤
All captains €100,000
Line trainers €120,000
TRI €130,000
TRE €150,000
Second officers €40,000
First Officer €55,000
Senior First officer €70,000
Last edited by enigmajet; 26th Jan 2011 at 16:16.
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Frank Booth
Spot on buddy.
But try telling that to a FR SSTR cadet and they shoot you down in flames, they can not see that they are in part responsible for the conditions they so complain about now. They were all quite happy to be part of the Ryanair jigsaw. MOL and his cronies certainly did a good job in brainwashing them all as instead of them seeing themselves being bent over they see the forking out of $100k in training as the biggest bargain of their snotty nosed lives, without a care to what they have done to the industry as a whole in T&C's.
Too right FR pilot's get a bashing as they have pissed too many people off. AS Frank Booth rightly says, a lot of GOOD men worked hard for many years to get to where they were only for FR cadets to come along and unravel all the good work they achieved. Now they all want to leave and get the rewards of their forefathers. What a bunch of hypocrites.
Spot on buddy.
But try telling that to a FR SSTR cadet and they shoot you down in flames, they can not see that they are in part responsible for the conditions they so complain about now. They were all quite happy to be part of the Ryanair jigsaw. MOL and his cronies certainly did a good job in brainwashing them all as instead of them seeing themselves being bent over they see the forking out of $100k in training as the biggest bargain of their snotty nosed lives, without a care to what they have done to the industry as a whole in T&C's.
Too right FR pilot's get a bashing as they have pissed too many people off. AS Frank Booth rightly says, a lot of GOOD men worked hard for many years to get to where they were only for FR cadets to come along and unravel all the good work they achieved. Now they all want to leave and get the rewards of their forefathers. What a bunch of hypocrites.
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Did someone post a list of people leaving that I didn't see would be very interested in having a look at that see if I can maybe add to it?
FB and MOLG.....yawn!
The problem is not all these cadets coming in it's the fact that the people that are leaving are the ones the MOL is relying on to fill the LHS over the coming months. New cadets take 3/4 yrs before they can do that job I'm not worried about the newbies. I heard MOL was very angry to hear that all the FO's were leaving after what he had done for them
.....why do you think he told the papers that he thinks an FO's job can be done by cabin crew. I think that was his way of saying 
you back.
FB and MOLG.....yawn!
The problem is not all these cadets coming in it's the fact that the people that are leaving are the ones the MOL is relying on to fill the LHS over the coming months. New cadets take 3/4 yrs before they can do that job I'm not worried about the newbies. I heard MOL was very angry to hear that all the FO's were leaving after what he had done for them
.....why do you think he told the papers that he thinks an FO's job can be done by cabin crew. I think that was his way of saying you back.
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Why arn't you ever on the CTC thread where there were cadets declaring themselves bankrupt. They were going into Easyjet working for a fraction of the money that the new cadets at FR are on.
Tis all a bit anti FR with you.
Tis all a bit anti FR with you.
Last edited by go around flaps15; 26th Jan 2011 at 17:38.
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Ryanair Exodus - whats the plan..........
The plan is for FOs, CPs, Engineers, Cabin Crew, to move on to a """better""" airline ...if they can...and if it suits them... and if they can make it work for themselves......
For God sakes, its about time that people moved on from the little box or bubble (call it what you want) that ryanair has created and the endless .............. endlesss ......... fight / debate / debacle about SSTRs; cadets; PTF; that has continued for many long years and still continues here on PPRUNE today, and frankly has not changed the intentions of many guys just out of flight school searching for a job who are willing to pay for a job, or the beliefs and attitudes of the lads/ladies who are far longer in this career....
We're all in the same boat so why not help eachother get out of the situations rather than persistant reminding of how people feel others' decisions have been!?
There are jobs out there.. Think about the rest of the world with bigger eyes and a more open mind.
Here's a start....
Pilots - work with us - flydubai
ppjn.com
pilotcareercentre.com
The plan is for FOs, CPs, Engineers, Cabin Crew, to move on to a """better""" airline ...if they can...and if it suits them... and if they can make it work for themselves......
For God sakes, its about
time that people moved on from the little box or bubble (call it what you want) that ryanair has created and the endless .............. endlesss ......... fight / debate / debacle about SSTRs; cadets; PTF; that has continued for many long years and still continues here on PPRUNE today, and frankly has not changed the intentions of many guys just out of flight school searching for a job who are willing to pay for a job, or the beliefs and attitudes of the lads/ladies who are far longer in this career....We're all in the same boat so why not help eachother get out of the situations rather than persistant reminding of how people feel others' decisions have been!?
There are jobs out there.. Think about the rest of the world with bigger eyes and a more open mind.
Here's a start....
Pilots - work with us - flydubai
ppjn.com
pilotcareercentre.com
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Flydubai...
if i had to fly a low cost operations , 4 sector day on a 737NG, i would rather do that in Europe and not flying nights DUBAI to indian subcontinent to feed Emirates, while living in the sandpit and home everynight, away from home.
nope.
if i had to fly a low cost operations , 4 sector day on a 737NG, i would rather do that in Europe and not flying nights DUBAI to indian subcontinent to feed Emirates, while living in the sandpit and home everynight, away from home.
nope.
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The fact that this thread in 6 months has had over 340 replies and 90,000 views it's says a lot about how many people are wanting to leave - that works out at over 480 views a day.....much like ryanairs fuel figures the facts don't lie!
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.much like ryanairs fuel figures the facts don't lie!
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Dear Damianik,
You must be badly informed about the Flydubai rostering...
If it is true that there are some 4 sectors days or nights ( with 45 to 60 minutes turnaround ) , it is also true that you will get it in average once or maybe ( if unlucky ) twice a month.
By the way none of them are to the Indian subcontinent but to Kuwait , Muscat , Doha and Bahrain... so far from what you were saying.
Most of the other flights are 2 sectors of minimum 2,5 to 4,5 hours each with free food and drinks and you will not get 6 sectors day in bad weather with 25 minutes turnaround like in some nice company in Europe.
So before talking about another company try to get the right information and by the way you don't have to join us , you are free to stay where you are.
Best regards,
You must be badly informed about the Flydubai rostering...
If it is true that there are some 4 sectors days or nights ( with 45 to 60 minutes turnaround ) , it is also true that you will get it in average once or maybe ( if unlucky ) twice a month.
By the way none of them are to the Indian subcontinent but to Kuwait , Muscat , Doha and Bahrain... so far from what you were saying.
Most of the other flights are 2 sectors of minimum 2,5 to 4,5 hours each with free food and drinks and you will not get 6 sectors day in bad weather with 25 minutes turnaround like in some nice company in Europe.
So before talking about another company try to get the right information and by the way you don't have to join us , you are free to stay where you are.
Best regards,
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Very interesting that the list has gone! From what I've heard seemed dead on when I read it. I have to agree I think they'll have it covered, but not comfortably! Probably why we haven't received a 'reality check' memo this year? Currently a lot of my mates are doing a lot of stbys, so I suppose that indicates surplus, but how far...no idea.
As far as career goes, I had a choice of going to FlyBe and going onto a prop and being bonded for 3 yrs or putting money upfront and getting Jet hours. In terms of options now available I would make the same choice all over again.
I like so many things here, it's a shame the negative things will never be turned over. Could be a really great place to work. Shame.
There are people leaving though, just not enough to worry them, in my opinion.
As far as career goes, I had a choice of going to FlyBe and going onto a prop and being bonded for 3 yrs or putting money upfront and getting Jet hours. In terms of options now available I would make the same choice all over again.
I like so many things here, it's a shame the negative things will never be turned over. Could be a really great place to work. Shame.
There are people leaving though, just not enough to worry them, in my opinion.
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There seems to be a sense of thought that everything is hopeless and that we will always be under the thumb at Ryanair and there will never be a union.
I have to disagree, there is people there willing to do some work and change the way we are treated.
In response to a post addressed at any management reading this website to change our conditions, I have not seen such a futile response before.The idea that management would listen to that is ridiculous.
Just to remind you management are there to provide profit for the company at the expense of our rivals and of course its workers, its the nature of the beast,If they don't get there projected profits for the company they don't get there personel bonuses.
So like the easy jet pilots learned, the only way stop the sinking day in day of your conditions is to start the process for unionsation. The process for recognition will come again and since it has not succeded ask yourself what has changed,nothing, still the same agressive business model attacking employees conditions among other, so ask yourself what have we got to loose from recognition.
Absolutely nothing and everything to gain.
I have to disagree, there is people there willing to do some work and change the way we are treated.
In response to a post addressed at any management reading this website to change our conditions, I have not seen such a futile response before.The idea that management would listen to that is ridiculous.
Just to remind you management are there to provide profit for the company at the expense of our rivals and of course its workers, its the nature of the beast,If they don't get there projected profits for the company they don't get there personel bonuses.
So like the easy jet pilots learned, the only way stop the sinking day in day of your conditions is to start the process for unionsation. The process for recognition will come again and since it has not succeded ask yourself what has changed,nothing, still the same agressive business model attacking employees conditions among other, so ask yourself what have we got to loose from recognition.
Absolutely nothing and everything to gain.
Last edited by widered; 27th Jan 2011 at 11:25.
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Widered: Maybe I misunderstood your post, but you seem to be arguing with yourself. Nothing has changed since recognition was last tried, but there is nothing to lose by trying again?
Things have certainly changed. The "if you don't like it off" attitude was a luxury provided by the constant supply of pilots when airlines were going bust every few weeks. That is not happening at the moment.
There will be over 1000 good jobs to be had out east/ middle east over the next few years for those that want that life. Any airline who wishes to employ good people in Europe, rather than scraping the barrel for misfits, will have to offer reasonable T&C's. Nobody expects the return of the gentlemans' flying club era but those days were gone by the 90's when I was doing my SSTR. And the same arguments were raging even then about the unfairness of having to "buy" a job.
Incidentally I handed over my hard earned wonga for thier, admittedly excellent training to a little outfit called British Midland. The company formerly known as BMI, which is the company formerly known as British Midland (!). Not really a loco...
A change gonna come.
Things have certainly changed. The "if you don't like it
off" attitude was a luxury provided by the constant supply of pilots when airlines were going bust every few weeks. That is not happening at the moment.There will be over 1000 good jobs to be had out east/ middle east over the next few years for those that want that life. Any airline who wishes to employ good people in Europe, rather than scraping the barrel for misfits, will have to offer reasonable T&C's. Nobody expects the return of the gentlemans' flying club era but those days were gone by the 90's when I was doing my SSTR. And the same arguments were raging even then about the unfairness of having to "buy" a job.
Incidentally I handed over my hard earned wonga for thier, admittedly excellent training to a little outfit called British Midland. The company formerly known as BMI, which is the company formerly known as British Midland (!). Not really a loco...
A change gonna come.
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The topic is, realistically, are FR (or anyone else) for that matter losing huge amounts of pilots.
I say no they're not. Too many people willing to pay.....to fly
or whatever we call it.
I say no they're not. Too many people willing to pay.....to fly
or whatever we call it.
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Yeah. Weird...
Hopefully, one day the regulations may change. But I doubt it.
It would be interesting to analyse, say, FR's accounts to see just how much (if any) financial gain they book from such courses.
Hopefully, one day the regulations may change. But I doubt it.
It would be interesting to analyse, say, FR's accounts to see just how much (if any) financial gain they book from such courses.
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@ stansdead rather an unusual post you make about financial gain?!?!
put it this way 250 new pilots this year and last year!
500 x 27,500= 13,750,000 euros!! or practically 7 million a year!
Factor in at this stage i guess they own most of the simulators and the instructors are 99% of their own so costs are minimal. Some of the simulators are not very new so I am sure they have paid for themselves already(a few times
).
put it this way 250 new pilots this year and last year!
500 x 27,500= 13,750,000 euros!! or practically 7 million a year!
Factor in at this stage i guess they own most of the simulators and the instructors are 99% of their own so costs are minimal. Some of the simulators are not very new so I am sure they have paid for themselves already(a few times
).
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Some of the simulators are not very new so I am sure they have paid for themselves already(a few times )
"paid for by Brookfield pilots and the deduction of €4.5 per hour"
