More easyJet Pilot Slavery Deals - Oxford Aviation Academy
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Orange Peel you fool!!!
Why do you feel you owe your management/shareholders anything? They pay you to move aircraft, they feel nothing for you. They will dump/shaft you at the drop of a hat. They expect you to go "that extra mile" for the company but will screw you over to boost their bonus.
Whilst fools like you continue to prop up the company things will continue to get worse for the aircrew.
NOB
Why do you feel you owe your management/shareholders anything? They pay you to move aircraft, they feel nothing for you. They will dump/shaft you at the drop of a hat. They expect you to go "that extra mile" for the company but will screw you over to boost their bonus.
Whilst fools like you continue to prop up the company things will continue to get worse for the aircrew.
NOB
I owe the company nothing but I owe the customers a lot.
Refusing to go into discretion because of your attitude to management at the end of the day so 156 (or more) pax are stranded is immature. In addition what does it achieve? 156 very annoyed customer, people who may have been loyal easyJet customers who no longer are.......Bringing them into your arguments with management is not fair on them.
I have no problem with going on a legal, well planned and well advertised strike as it gives customers a chance to plan and book with other airlines. But refusing to go into discretion at the end of the day because of your spat with the management hurts the customer the most.
Thankfully the immature elements (of which you are clearly one) in our union are few and far between.
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So if industrial action does materialise at easyJet, will you only be willing to take part if it is planned to cause the minimum amount of disruption possible?
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I have no problem with going on a legal, well planned and well advertised strike as it gives customers a chance to plan and book with other airlines.
Be under no illusion that any industrial action that takes place on such a large scale, will leave the customer with just as many options as if your groundstaff were indeed.....
Telling them at the gate that their flight is cancelled.
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By all means go on strike
Great Idea
Two things will happen.
RYR will use its extra capacity to mop up the extra pax and make loads of money in the meantime.
Many pilots will see that their homes and famillies and incomes are more important and the strike even if voted for, will fizzle out as people turn up for work, rather than put their livelyhoods and jobs at risk.
You are fighting a loosing battle to even suggest such actions.
The battle has already been lost, and if you intimidate the cadets under training it will be seen as bullying and subject to instant dismissal.
I suggest that you "Grow Up and Face Facts" the system is in place and will continue as long as the market is pro company.
Wait bide your time and when the tide is in your favour try for the changes you seek.
Bargaining from a position of weakness is foolhardy.
Great Idea
Two things will happen.
RYR will use its extra capacity to mop up the extra pax and make loads of money in the meantime.
Many pilots will see that their homes and famillies and incomes are more important and the strike even if voted for, will fizzle out as people turn up for work, rather than put their livelyhoods and jobs at risk.
You are fighting a loosing battle to even suggest such actions.
The battle has already been lost, and if you intimidate the cadets under training it will be seen as bullying and subject to instant dismissal.
I suggest that you "Grow Up and Face Facts" the system is in place and will continue as long as the market is pro company.
Wait bide your time and when the tide is in your favour try for the changes you seek.
Bargaining from a position of weakness is foolhardy.
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Wise words indeed Nightfr8.
Mistergeezer, at least if adequate notice is given people have options, the main one is not to travel. Inconveniencing people at 9pm and leaving them to their own devices for 24 hours is very selfish. But I am obviously banging my head against a brickwall
Mistergeezer, at least if adequate notice is given people have options, the main one is not to travel. Inconveniencing people at 9pm and leaving them to their own devices for 24 hours is very selfish. But I am obviously banging my head against a brickwall
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What is this talk of strike? It is bolleaux. There are no grounds to ballot for one as there are no grounds for strike (sorry about the tautology). No jobs are under threat as far as I am aware and it would be difficult to demonstrate that this practice had led to any degradation of T&Cs. If you think otherwise put it to your CC.
The strike weapon is one that is wielded with more care than a firearm, we are no longer in the days of yore when tools would be downed at the drop of a hat because someone was a bit peeved at something, even those days are misrepresented.
Much though I find this practice to be odious there is no short term solution that I can see. It is the free market at work and do not forget that is the world in which civilian aviation operates, much thought it grieves this left leaning poster to state.
The strike weapon is one that is wielded with more care than a firearm, we are no longer in the days of yore when tools would be downed at the drop of a hat because someone was a bit peeved at something, even those days are misrepresented.
Much though I find this practice to be odious there is no short term solution that I can see. It is the free market at work and do not forget that is the world in which civilian aviation operates, much thought it grieves this left leaning poster to state.
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In all my years as a member I have never known Balpa to call a strike outside of BA. The recent legal injunction preventing cabin crew from striking over Xmas will not improve Balpa's view on this matter. I suspect that easyJet know they can afford to call their bluff and along with current market conditions it is giving them carte blanche to well and truly shaft the workforce.
Why am I still a member?
Why am I still a member?
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From what I can fathom, an increasing number are ready to go for action...
People finally seem to understand all this is not heading the right direction and the profession is doomed if no action is taken. Today, only a major sign from the company will ease positions.
There never is a right time for a strike. Which is the reason why a strike is such a powerful weapon. Surely, solutions must be sought. But when there's no option, you have to do what you have to do. Sorry for the managers posting here to damp the readers' spirits.
Lufthansa pilots are heading for a strike too. And they do not have the worst T&Cs in the world, to say the least...And this is not the right moment for them either.
People finally seem to understand all this is not heading the right direction and the profession is doomed if no action is taken. Today, only a major sign from the company will ease positions. There never is a right time for a strike. Which is the reason why a strike is such a powerful weapon. Surely, solutions must be sought. But when there's no option, you have to do what you have to do. Sorry for the managers posting here to damp the readers' spirits.
Lufthansa pilots are heading for a strike too. And they do not have the worst T&Cs in the world, to say the least...And this is not the right moment for them either.
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Just to drift slightly back to the OAA/Parc/EZY deal, I remember OAA having a forum in a similar format to pprune that its honchos use unscrupulously to muster support for their exploits and deter any resentment. It was aimed at existing students and potential candidates and is completely full to the gills with marketing rhetoric and propaganda. I think anyone can join. Continually posting here in relation to this scheme may open a few eyes down at Kidlington and hopefully wake a few students up in the process. Small measures, however it may be worthwhile?
Plus did the Turkish CAA not recently impose an experience limitation on those occupying the RHS of a JAR25 aircraft which in turn put an end to airlines like Corendon continuing with their PTF scheme? Any details on that?
I just hope the EZY LTCs are exceptionally hard on these characters. However this kind of behaviour is quickly identified by the training department and relayed up the chain!!
Plus did the Turkish CAA not recently impose an experience limitation on those occupying the RHS of a JAR25 aircraft which in turn put an end to airlines like Corendon continuing with their PTF scheme? Any details on that?
I just hope the EZY LTCs are exceptionally hard on these characters. However this kind of behaviour is quickly identified by the training department and relayed up the chain!!
Last edited by Callsign Kilo; 18th Jan 2010 at 17:40.
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Bargaining from a position of weakness is foolhardy.
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Has the C.C invited Stelios for a working dinner in a secluded corner somewhere for a quiet word in his ear? Have the more subtle approaches been considered, or is it all bluster on the barricades?
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Lets face it guys. BALPA are a busted flush in easyJet. The workforce consists of too many different factions who will not strike to help each other. UK guys won't go on strike to help our German colleagues, Captains don't give a toss about contract captains taking jobs from SFO's on the CPI list etc. Everyone in easyJet just shrugs their shoulders and says "it doesn't affect me."
Unless the pilot workforce can unify itself, (and there isn't a chance of this happening), then managment will be able to do whatever they like, unopposed. Face the facts guys. easyJet is no longer a career airline. It's over!
Unless the pilot workforce can unify itself, (and there isn't a chance of this happening), then managment will be able to do whatever they like, unopposed. Face the facts guys. easyJet is no longer a career airline. It's over!
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easyJet is no longer a career airline. It's over
I feel sorry for young captains in easyJet for they are trapped: There is no clear promotion route except into training and that has ceased for the duration. Direct entry command elswhere? Where, apart from another LoCo? The only route out is to go back to the RHS. Twenty years as a co-pilot in BA, anyone?
Why does anyone try to pretend it's a "career" airline? It never has been and never will be. It's a LoCo. LoCos don't care about "Careers". They care about costs. That's it. Period.
I take no satisfaction in pointing this out. People just need a dose of reality.
Last edited by Wingswinger; 20th Jan 2010 at 08:30.
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It is really a matter of principles
I for one am appalled at the direction the industry is taking and like many of you see these chinless wonders as a threat to the longer term viability of this career.
For what its worth I faced a similar dilemma after paying my own way through Oxford (mid life career changer so no help from parents). After narrowly missing BA I was offered a self sponsored type rating by OATS for £16500 but they couldn't even confirm who the airlines were who had approached them (though I later learned it was BMI and Easy) Frankly after putting my family in hock for £64 000 already I decided to draw a line in the sand and say 'no'. I spent some 18 months working as an IT contractor while looking for flying job (£440 a day helped raise my spirits a lot!!) and eventually was offered a paid type rating by a well known turbprop operator. Full salary from day one induction, fully expensed hotel, hire cars and food all from day one and a 3 year bond which I have no objections to at all. I'm pleased to say that having some backbone didn't scupper my flying ambitions at all.
I've spent 3 years with them now and loved most of it. I've certainly benefitted from flying with many highly experienced Captains (we take a lot of DEC). In fact flying with the old stagers is something I love doing. We do have BALPA representation and while our terms and conditions aren't up there with the best and more dosh would be nice I do feel I could have ended up in worse places.
What I'm really trying to say is that there are still decent operators out there who do things the old fashioned way but manage to remain competitive - it isn't necessary for employers to screw employees for every last dime and it isn't necessary for wannabe pilots to prostitute themselves on the altar of aviation - indeed if you do I guarantee that you will eventually come to regret it.
I'm genuinely sad to see Easy (an airline I have always had a great respect for) head down this road. One question though -am I right in saying the CAA monitor experience levels on an operator by operator basis and don't like too many inexperienced pilots in any particular airline?? Surely these training contracts are going to dilute experience levels at Easy in the coming years?
Lets hope for better times,
Desk-pilot
For what its worth I faced a similar dilemma after paying my own way through Oxford (mid life career changer so no help from parents). After narrowly missing BA I was offered a self sponsored type rating by OATS for £16500 but they couldn't even confirm who the airlines were who had approached them (though I later learned it was BMI and Easy) Frankly after putting my family in hock for £64 000 already I decided to draw a line in the sand and say 'no'. I spent some 18 months working as an IT contractor while looking for flying job (£440 a day helped raise my spirits a lot!!) and eventually was offered a paid type rating by a well known turbprop operator. Full salary from day one induction, fully expensed hotel, hire cars and food all from day one and a 3 year bond which I have no objections to at all. I'm pleased to say that having some backbone didn't scupper my flying ambitions at all.
I've spent 3 years with them now and loved most of it. I've certainly benefitted from flying with many highly experienced Captains (we take a lot of DEC). In fact flying with the old stagers is something I love doing. We do have BALPA representation and while our terms and conditions aren't up there with the best and more dosh would be nice I do feel I could have ended up in worse places.
What I'm really trying to say is that there are still decent operators out there who do things the old fashioned way but manage to remain competitive - it isn't necessary for employers to screw employees for every last dime and it isn't necessary for wannabe pilots to prostitute themselves on the altar of aviation - indeed if you do I guarantee that you will eventually come to regret it.
I'm genuinely sad to see Easy (an airline I have always had a great respect for) head down this road. One question though -am I right in saying the CAA monitor experience levels on an operator by operator basis and don't like too many inexperienced pilots in any particular airline?? Surely these training contracts are going to dilute experience levels at Easy in the coming years?
Lets hope for better times,
Desk-pilot
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chinless wonders
Only political pressure and the regulatory pressure that will flow from it will stop this trend. Urge BALPA on to that end. Write to your MP/MEP. Cite the experiences of pilots in the USA and the accidents.
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DP - agree wholeheartedly with the content of your last post.
Wingswinger - I've said it before and I'll say it again - the folks signing up to these exploitative deals are JOINTLY responsible for the continuation of such schemes and therefore, the continuing downward spiral of ALL OUR Ts and Cs . If you are unable to accept that well, there really is no hope. If you are UNWILLING to accept it, well, take your head out of the sand. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
Wingswinger - I've said it before and I'll say it again - the folks signing up to these exploitative deals are JOINTLY responsible for the continuation of such schemes and therefore, the continuing downward spiral of ALL OUR Ts and Cs . If you are unable to accept that well, there really is no hope. If you are UNWILLING to accept it, well, take your head out of the sand. Sorry, but that's the way it is.
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Pilot Training Managers x 2 - London Luton - Aviation
Based London Luton
With over 180 aircraft at 19 bases spread across the UK and mainland Europe, nearly half of easyJet's 2,000 Pilots and 4,000 Cabin Crew are now based outside the UK, demonstrating the airline's continued commitment to Eu ... Job Role: Pilot | Job Hours: Full-Time | Location: South East | Job Position: Permanent | Salary: £Excellent | Published Date: 12 January 2010 09:36:55
Based London Luton
With over 180 aircraft at 19 bases spread across the UK and mainland Europe, nearly half of easyJet's 2,000 Pilots and 4,000 Cabin Crew are now based outside the UK, demonstrating the airline's continued commitment to Eu ... Job Role: Pilot | Job Hours: Full-Time | Location: South East | Job Position: Permanent | Salary: £Excellent | Published Date: 12 January 2010 09:36:55
anybody ??
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after paying my own way through Oxford (mid life career changer so no help from parents)
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I know on the 'other' thread about this 
ing airline I said I wouldn't post and I shaln't again other than to say to the 20 Oxford morons and any other berk considering training to be a pilot at the moment or even worse considering to pay to fly, I have two words for you: Hubris and Nemesis. Don't let those gold stripes dazzle you boys and girls, they'll quite possibly ruin your life. You will pay the punishment for having a dream. I offer the same two words to our friend Cor. What is happening is unsustainable. Supply and demand will find their balance as they always do and their will be consequential victims of which the 21 named above will probably be a part.
ing airline I said I wouldn't post and I shaln't again other than to say to the 20 Oxford morons and any other berk considering training to be a pilot at the moment or even worse considering to pay to fly, I have two words for you: Hubris and Nemesis. Don't let those gold stripes dazzle you boys and girls, they'll quite possibly ruin your life. You will pay the punishment for having a dream. I offer the same two words to our friend Cor. What is happening is unsustainable. Supply and demand will find their balance as they always do and their will be consequential victims of which the 21 named above will probably be a part.