easyJet/CTC Cadet Pilot Slavery Contract
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The way that the pay as you fly contracting scourge as well as the pay to fly FO's becoming more and more widespread is making it more and more difficult to be able to find a secure position especially in economic times like these. This means that if you are in the unfortunate situation as me that I to am soon to be made redundant from bmi, and am so far having no luck in finding any form of new employment.
The CTC easyJet Flexicrew scheme is absolutely sickening and the thought of signing on with the devil fills me with dread, but to look at it through my handy pair of rose tinted glasses, at least I am staying current on the A320 and bringing in more money than would be possible working at tescos 24-7 or signing on to the dole. This gives me some form of leeway financially until something better comes up, wherever in the world that may be.
Which ever option I go for will inevitably mean having to hand home back to the bank as the forced pay cut will mean that I will no longer be able to keep up repayments. £30000 is a absolute derisory offer and it pains me to say this but I may have to take it up if i'm "lucky" enough to be selected.
The choice of turning down the job as others have stated is an easy thing to say if your currently in a secure position. Just think honestly what would you do to survive if you were in the same position as me???
The CTC easyJet Flexicrew scheme is absolutely sickening and the thought of signing on with the devil fills me with dread, but to look at it through my handy pair of rose tinted glasses, at least I am staying current on the A320 and bringing in more money than would be possible working at tescos 24-7 or signing on to the dole. This gives me some form of leeway financially until something better comes up, wherever in the world that may be.
Which ever option I go for will inevitably mean having to hand home back to the bank as the forced pay cut will mean that I will no longer be able to keep up repayments. £30000 is a absolute derisory offer and it pains me to say this but I may have to take it up if i'm "lucky" enough to be selected.
The choice of turning down the job as others have stated is an easy thing to say if your currently in a secure position. Just think honestly what would you do to survive if you were in the same position as me???
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Hampshire physically; Perthshire and Pembrokeshire mentally.
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This was on Radio 4 the other day and is pertinent to this thread
BBC iPlayer Console - Face the Facts: The Recruits
BBC R4 "Face The Facts". These could be the people to involve if possible.
BBC iPlayer Console - Face the Facts: The Recruits
BBC R4 "Face The Facts". These could be the people to involve if possible.
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I say this without a trace of malice, but you made your choice , wise or otherwise, previously.
Nonetheless, I wish you , truly, the very best of luck, and hope one day you find an employer that appreciates the degree of commitment and expenditure you invested to try and succeed in this poxy profession we aspire/work in.
WTF, better to be a solicitor and fly a Cessna 150 @ the weekend ?
Well, actually maybe no, hate to say, but that doesn't mean we have to accept to be raped
Nonetheless, I wish you , truly, the very best of luck, and hope one day you find an employer that appreciates the degree of commitment and expenditure you invested to try and succeed in this poxy profession we aspire/work in.
WTF, better to be a solicitor and fly a Cessna 150 @ the weekend ?
Well, actually maybe no, hate to say, but that doesn't mean we have to accept to be raped
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more exaiting news from j curd-scum..i mean scheme
"If you were not aware we are based in London Gatwick and in our facility we deliver the ground school using the CPaT computer based training software. Also available is a highly qualified TRI on hand to help all day and will also give tutorials on the various subjects required. An ECAM trainer and FMGC trainer is also on hand for your use.
The simulators are a stones through from our offices and we conduct all the training ourselves. Unlike some organizations we do not use third party training unless you are going to fly for BMI, then they will deliver our syllabus in the Heathrow simulators at the BMI training centre.
There are a variety of packages we can offer... you could simply do a type rating or add a line training package.... 150 hours up to a possible 300 hours.
Mark for the right candidates there are contracts on offer, these are conditional and you will have to be at the highest level to be offered these. We have already secured contracts for 13 pilots this year....It could be you in the next few months.
Book an assessment as the starting point....this will be valid for 6 months and will count towards any of our training opportunities.
Click here to visit our assessment page to book your place and take that vital first step in Fast Tracking you career...."
How we going to stop this!!
The simulators are a stones through from our offices and we conduct all the training ourselves. Unlike some organizations we do not use third party training unless you are going to fly for BMI, then they will deliver our syllabus in the Heathrow simulators at the BMI training centre.
There are a variety of packages we can offer... you could simply do a type rating or add a line training package.... 150 hours up to a possible 300 hours.
Mark for the right candidates there are contracts on offer, these are conditional and you will have to be at the highest level to be offered these. We have already secured contracts for 13 pilots this year....It could be you in the next few months.
Book an assessment as the starting point....this will be valid for 6 months and will count towards any of our training opportunities.
Click here to visit our assessment page to book your place and take that vital first step in Fast Tracking you career...."
How we going to stop this!!
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Difficult
Mac 72
It would be very difficult for your proposed students to through stones from your offices, even with Highly Qualified TRI's
No link available to access your site
It would be very difficult for your proposed students to through stones from your offices, even with Highly Qualified TRI's
No link available to access your site
mac72:
"The simulators are a stones through from our offices"
Do you perhaps mean that:
"The simulators are a stone's throw from our offices"?
When you are trying to advertise a product on pprune it is absolutely essential that you first of all get a complete grip of the aberrant apostrophe and also get your spelling right otherwise nobody is going to take you seriously.
I certainly would not part with any money on the basis of your opener.
Apart from anything, I thought it was infra dig to advertise one's (note the apostrophe) services on pprune?
"The simulators are a stones through from our offices"
Do you perhaps mean that:
"The simulators are a stone's throw from our offices"?
When you are trying to advertise a product on pprune it is absolutely essential that you first of all get a complete grip of the aberrant apostrophe and also get your spelling right otherwise nobody is going to take you seriously.
I certainly would not part with any money on the basis of your opener.
Apart from anything, I thought it was infra dig to advertise one's (note the apostrophe) services on pprune?
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ex dessert,jw411
thank you for a free english lesson
i'm not advertising anything, it's a quote from an email i got this morning from j.curd, thought i'll share it on this thread...clearly bad idea
m
thank you for a free english lesson
i'm not advertising anything, it's a quote from an email i got this morning from j.curd, thought i'll share it on this thread...clearly bad idea
m
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There are frightening terms that apply to these people.
Insolvency, broke.
When your have more liabilities than you have assets, you are a person with an insolvent balance sheet. In other terms, you' re broke.
Banks didn' t lend you money because you' re smart and you' re worth investing in, but because your parents have assets to match your debt.
It' s not that surprising to see that the same guys who decided to go broke for a pilot' s license, are now willing to work for free and thereby take jobs away. Stupid people never learn.
Those who didn' t go this way, shouldn' t envy them.
It' s like having a friend who brags about himself driving very fast. He will not achieve much with it, only that eventually he may die in a car crash.
And eventually, this system of schemes will lead to their own failure.
Pay-to-fly reduces jobs and there will be even more jobless pilots on the market. When pay-to-fly' s get kicked out, they won' t find jobs and they will be even more broke than they were before.
Then follows liquidation:
The banks will come to liquidate the family assets, foreclose their homes.
After a huge round of liquidations, banks will refuse to lend any further for anything related to flight training and broke pilots will be pulled out of the market by their angry families.
Broke pilots will live in shame ever after.
On the bright side, after that the market will open up again to the non-broke pilots. The non-brokes will survive to get a job.
Let them go broke.
Therefore, if you have more than a bean in your skull and consequently you are not considering going broke with CTC or OAA, disregard the following message:
Now is the best time to start your flight training, right before the economy picks up again!! Start now!! It' s now or never! Later is too late, now' s the best moment! Jump the line!
2 years from now, it will be a totally different picture, and if you start now you' re going to be among the first to be hired.
Insolvency, broke.
When your have more liabilities than you have assets, you are a person with an insolvent balance sheet. In other terms, you' re broke.
Banks didn' t lend you money because you' re smart and you' re worth investing in, but because your parents have assets to match your debt.
It' s not that surprising to see that the same guys who decided to go broke for a pilot' s license, are now willing to work for free and thereby take jobs away. Stupid people never learn.
Those who didn' t go this way, shouldn' t envy them.
It' s like having a friend who brags about himself driving very fast. He will not achieve much with it, only that eventually he may die in a car crash.
And eventually, this system of schemes will lead to their own failure.
Pay-to-fly reduces jobs and there will be even more jobless pilots on the market. When pay-to-fly' s get kicked out, they won' t find jobs and they will be even more broke than they were before.
Then follows liquidation:
The banks will come to liquidate the family assets, foreclose their homes.
After a huge round of liquidations, banks will refuse to lend any further for anything related to flight training and broke pilots will be pulled out of the market by their angry families.
Broke pilots will live in shame ever after.
On the bright side, after that the market will open up again to the non-broke pilots. The non-brokes will survive to get a job.
Let them go broke.
Therefore, if you have more than a bean in your skull and consequently you are not considering going broke with CTC or OAA, disregard the following message:
Now is the best time to start your flight training, right before the economy picks up again!! Start now!! It' s now or never! Later is too late, now' s the best moment! Jump the line!
2 years from now, it will be a totally different picture, and if you start now you' re going to be among the first to be hired.
Last edited by fly_antonov; 31st Jan 2010 at 19:54.
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To all who have castigated mac for the spelling please read his post, it is a quote, I presume he has done a C & P on it and retained the original spelling thereby underlining the lack of thought that has gone into the email he was sent. He did finish off with his own question on it.
Perhaps the pedants should spend some more time reading before being so smart Aleccy (?) pedantic.
Perhaps the pedants should spend some more time reading before being so smart Aleccy (?) pedantic.
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A break in The Thread
JW411/MAC72
Perhaps we have created a light-hearted interlude in what remains a serious and undesirable situation that still needs to be addressed by The Industry and continued relevant posts.
Perhaps we have created a light-hearted interlude in what remains a serious and undesirable situation that still needs to be addressed by The Industry and continued relevant posts.
Banks didn' t lend you money because you' re smart and you' re worth investing in, but because your parents have assets to match your debt.
The banks will come to liquidate the family assets, foreclose their homes.
The debts are in their names, as an unsecured bank loan. Nothing to do with their parents property or assets. The banks - specifically in the case of CTC, HSBC - offered the funding on an unsecured basis. The banks are in no position whatsoever to start liquidating families' assets.
The same does not apply to later cadets, who have started the course in more recent times after the unsecured funding dried up. But while fly_antonov's point stands when considering the wider job-hunting, low-houred, type-rated but only 200hrs on light a/c community, this does not apply to those emerging from the CTC Wings hold pool right now. For some of them, bankruptcy - without costing their families their homes - is an option. And, in some cases, the only one.
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Loan security is simply the leverage the bank can/will use to get the parents to make Rupert's loan payments when he can't. No security, no lever in the bank's hand. Since CTC cadets who started the Wings programme two years or so ago were offered unsecured loans, they could be forced into bankruptcy by the PTF scheme, while those with secured loans might receive parental help. The bank, and maybe CTC too, will be screwed if the pay is too low, as they could force a lot of these graduates into bankruptcy. Likewise, if the pay is enough, they can help keep them out of bankruptcy. I'd say the CTC graduates have better negotiation leverage than the OAA ones do then, since they have unsecured loans and the OAA lot have secured ones. It's a good thing they noticed that ARL was offering them less than Parc was offering their OAA counterparts and that they used the lever to negotiate.
I wonder where the CTC chaps will get the money for the PTF scheme though? I'm sure HSBC have figured out that they now have leverage too. They could offer another loan to cover PTF in exchange for the whole lot of debt being secured going forward. So where does a CTC-to-EZ PTFer get the funds needed? Have they built any financing/bespoke loans into the scheme or is it all down to the depth of Rupert's pocket or the bank of Mum and Dad's?
The type of leverage I mean here by the way, is the kind that one uses to move an obstacle from one's path, not debt, which is also called leverage.
I wonder where the CTC chaps will get the money for the PTF scheme though? I'm sure HSBC have figured out that they now have leverage too. They could offer another loan to cover PTF in exchange for the whole lot of debt being secured going forward. So where does a CTC-to-EZ PTFer get the funds needed? Have they built any financing/bespoke loans into the scheme or is it all down to the depth of Rupert's pocket or the bank of Mum and Dad's?
The type of leverage I mean here by the way, is the kind that one uses to move an obstacle from one's path, not debt, which is also called leverage.
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Interesting point, quite poor judgement by the banks.
In my opinion, in the end the consequences are the same.
In one, you bankrupt yourself and the bank comes and takes away everything that belongs to you.
If that doesn' t cover it all and since you' re still alive, they can lay their hands on part of your (future) income when you have one, or any assets, from your shoes to any heritage, for as long as you owe them money.
In the other, your family loses the home or other assets, a bit more dramatic.
The former is trickier for the banks but either way, you don' t just get away with it.
Add legal expenses!
Bank lending for flight training will come to an end very soon.
In my opinion, in the end the consequences are the same.
In one, you bankrupt yourself and the bank comes and takes away everything that belongs to you.
If that doesn' t cover it all and since you' re still alive, they can lay their hands on part of your (future) income when you have one, or any assets, from your shoes to any heritage, for as long as you owe them money.
In the other, your family loses the home or other assets, a bit more dramatic.
The former is trickier for the banks but either way, you don' t just get away with it.
Add legal expenses!
Bank lending for flight training will come to an end very soon.
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Fly Antonov,
Actually, there are plenty of families who can simply make Rupert's payments until he's on his own feet. They don't lose much in the way of assets, except for some discretionary income or savings while they take over payments. I'll bet there is a lot of this going on already without the bank's knowledge.
The banks will keep lending, but they have already stopped doing it without security. They will be stricter about how much they lend and who they loan it to, but lending is what they do and they will keep at it.
Actually, there are plenty of families who can simply make Rupert's payments until he's on his own feet. They don't lose much in the way of assets, except for some discretionary income or savings while they take over payments. I'll bet there is a lot of this going on already without the bank's knowledge.
The banks will keep lending, but they have already stopped doing it without security. They will be stricter about how much they lend and who they loan it to, but lending is what they do and they will keep at it.
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Good point.
The richies are going to get away with it, the others will go broke.
Story of human life.
Banks will lend for as long as there is a lucrative market.
That market ceased to exist 2 years ago now and what has been a safe and lucrative business has become very risky and time-consuming.
I got out of flight training (thank god, modular) at the right time and way before the point of no return, without any loans or debt. I' m enjoying my PPL every now and then and am looking at a job in flight ops.
I will be watching the upcoming bloodbath from the sidelines
The richies are going to get away with it, the others will go broke.
Story of human life.
Banks will lend for as long as there is a lucrative market.
That market ceased to exist 2 years ago now and what has been a safe and lucrative business has become very risky and time-consuming.
I got out of flight training (thank god, modular) at the right time and way before the point of no return, without any loans or debt. I' m enjoying my PPL every now and then and am looking at a job in flight ops.
I will be watching the upcoming bloodbath from the sidelines