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easyJet/CTC Cadet Pilot Slavery Contract

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easyJet/CTC Cadet Pilot Slavery Contract

Old 1st Feb 2010, 14:06
  #341 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oop north
Posts: 1,012
Spicejetter, you're right. Of course, when the airlines are furiously cutting costs, freezing recruitment and making layoffs, CTC can quite happily pitch up at the door and say "you WILL take these cadets and give them jobs."

CTC expanded the course numbers from 8 to 12 per month back in mid-2006 on what was presumably the notion that hiring was expected to increase. You could argue that was daft, but you can't exactly blame the cadets for that decision. The problems with the economy weren't yet on the horizon. Then of course everything went pear-shaped, hiring stopped, and as a result there has been a pile-up in the hold pool of people from all these courses who would have had jobs to go to but suddenly discovered that they didn't. It wasn't just easyJet - BA stopped recruiting (they've taken a fair number of CTC cadets of the years); Monarch's last intake was 2008 and those guys got laid off at the end; everything generally slowed down, at the precise time the larger course numbers started to spill out of the MCC and into the pool. NOT the cadets' fault.

It takes between generally 15 and 18 months to complete the course up to the end of the AQC/MCC stage. So yes, there are people who have been sitting around in the pool for 2 years plus.
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 14:18
  #342 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Oop north
Posts: 1,012
But these schemes, reserved only for the priviledged few, are actually counter productive and in the long run damaging for the future of their children.
One of the main points of the CTC scheme was that back in the days of the loan being unsecured, it was available to pretty much anybody. Not just the 'priveliged few'. In fact as far as I understand it, as long as you're willing to put up the security, that's still the case. There were/are plenty of people on the course who don't come from massively over-priveliged backgrounds. They're just normal, hard-working people who saw the course as a good way into the career.

The pay-to-fly crowd are destroying the industry
When these people signed up for the course, they were paying for their training. Just like most people have to, regardless of the route they took. Yes, they spent a bit more to go through CTC than they could have done down the modular route, but that's all they paid for. Until recently, the type rating was provided by the airline and the cadets went in on what was effectively a DEP salary reduced to take account of the loan repayments. Now they have been told they have to stump up for part of the cost of the TR. Even then, despicable though it is having the rug pulled from under them, they're still effectively paying for training. They are not paying for line hours - once on the line, they are PAID for their line hours, regardless of how crap the rate is.

But of course, it's easy just to see "low houred fATPLs" and lump them all together as "pay to flyers" without bothering about what's actually gone on.

Your views are correct when talking about people paying for schemes such as ATP/Fly320/whatever they're called this week, or Eaglejet, or similar; however, in the case of CTC cadets, you are complaining about the wrong people.
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 14:35
  #343 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: England
Age: 35
Posts: 363
Fly Antonov,

You are making some very general statements about a large group of people and I don't think you have all the facts.

You say we knew what we were getting into. Well I started at CTC at the start of 2007 and everything in the airline industry was rosy then. Would you have turned down a place at CTC back then when they still had a 100% placement record and you'd still be earning 1200- 1500 a month after your repayments? I admit it is ultimately my responsibility and believe me I am paying the price but I'm just saying it wasn't a stupid decision to go ahead with it. Like someone here said: it was a gamble, but the odds looked good. What in life isn't a gamble? Anyway, I took the gamble and now I'm dealing with it the best I can.

I was unlucky to miss out on permanent contracts by a month or two when everything went pear shaped but then again I was luckier than some because after some time in the holdpool I got a TR and some flying.

You seem to dislike CTC guys because you view them as being spoilt rich kids who think they automatically deserve a place in the RHS of a jet. That is only true of a very small minority of them, the majority are a good bunch. I am not spoilt or rich, I paid for my PPL myself whilst working on weekends and holidays when at school and uni. My parents don't even own their house or a car. When I applied to CTC it was speculatively: I didn't really think I'd get in but I did. If I hadn't I would have gone modular after 4-6 years of saving up doing another career and I would have made it happen that way.

When I was laid off last Autumn things looked grim. It was not expected that me or my colleagues would be needed back and no other airlines were hiring. The bank was not meeting us halfway and it looked like bankruptcy. I was very fortunate to find a bush flying job in Africa which I was very excited about (re: previous statement that we don't all think we "deserve" a place in RHS of a jet) and was all set to go when I unexpectedly got called back to my airline very recently. Africa has been postponed and I'm going back as this is a last reprieve from bankruptcy for me and even now it's not clear what's going to happen. I am doing everything humanly possible to deal with my situation.

I don't really understand why you will be clapping at the "upcoming bloodbath from the sidelines" or whatever you said. What's so good about stuff like this happening to people? Maybe you're just not a very nice person...

Anyway, I wish you all the best Fly Antonov, I hope you fix your attitude but I also hope you find a flying job. Don't forget, we're all pilots, we all have the same dream. What's happening now is not other pilot's faults, it's the situation.
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Old 1st Feb 2010, 14:55
  #344 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 163
I started flight training in September 2006.

I had the choice to go integrated or modular.
My parents were ready to back me on a 85 000 euro loan.

I chose to go the safe way. Somewhere in my mind I told myself that if a 9/11 or similar situation were to happen again, I could stop anytime, anywhere. It did happen and I did stop.

There is no excuse. In 2006, the situation was not much different than it is now. There was a shortage of captains but no shortage of frozen ATPL' s. Airlines were stealing eachother' s captains but the line for fATPL' s was already endless.

Some lucky guys got hired, many of them were made redundant again recently.

Going integrated was pretty naive back then already, the cost was already 50% higher than modular and it was full time, so now way one could work to pay for the flying.

I decided to go modular up to a point where it was reasonable and decided to wait until there were reasonable chances of getting in without paying for a type-rating.

ME-IR CPL are the most expensive courses, but their advantage is that they can be done in less than 5 months, so I decided to stop and wait right before that stage.

Until now I spent roughly 15 000 Euro. Though I have no debt and my savings account is growing, I am leaning towards taking a different path and I' ve convinced myself to abandon professional flying for now.

I feel that there can be bigger challenges in aviation than to become a desperate fATPL and then just another first officer or captain for the rest of my life.

A guy I know became an industrial engineer, worked several years as technical manager for an airline and recently set-up his own business with some co-workers.
Now he' s flying his own jets (organs transport) for his own profit while his mates who went the pilot route are still waiting for their command.
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 12:30
  #345 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: south of the north pole
Posts: 49
A few questions for everyone

I've a fair idea of the offer being made to ctc cadets starting with easyjet but from talking to a few starters and reading posts here there seems to be a difference. Correct me on any of the following

once the type rating and costs are repaid the cadet then goes onto a 3 year flexicrew contract.

For the cadets this is what they believe will happen. What I always feared was that once the costs are repaid then they will be replaced by the next lot in the hold pool. These new cadets will take all the flying so ctc can get repaid asap and so it repeats.

How likely are the cadets likely to have any flying worthwhile after repaying costs.

Is flexicrew the same as the cadets being offered summer contracts to be told they are not required once it's over.
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Old 2nd Feb 2010, 13:17
  #346 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 1,269
What I always feared was that once the costs are repaid then they will be replaced by the next lot in the hold pool
I think many of us also fear that this is very likely. I also understand that the fact that cadets are only offered contracts which pay them per flying hour means that easyjet could have 1,000 of them on their books whilst only paying for what they use. So the fact that you have a 'contract' does not mean, by any stretch, that you can expect a certain amount of flying, summer or winter. I also doubt very much that easyjet will voluntarily turn off the 'revenue stream' that is cadets queuing up to pay another 30K for their TR/line training just because they have 'enough' - expect to share that flying with an ever increasing number of colleagues.
Gary Lager is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2010, 18:07
  #347 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: on the street
Posts: 39
Sounds like a pyramid scheme (scam).
systematically is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2010, 18:24
  #348 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Usually on Earth
Posts: 75
I would love to know what is going to happen to all this when the european agency workers directive comes in to force in the UK in December 2011...
rusty_y2k2 is offline  
Old 2nd Feb 2010, 23:19
  #349 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Hotel
Posts: 43
The problem with that directive is that is still has a bloody large loophole in that a company can justify different terms and conditions between employees of the same position or grade. How they do this is not important because the simple fact is that they will justify it. Whether this is underhanded or not again doesn't matter. We all know it's possible to get around this.
The directive should have been geared to eradicate the possibility of different terms and conditions between employees with the same responsibilities. Good idea but tough to enforce.
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Old 3rd Feb 2010, 10:42
  #350 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: south of the north pole
Posts: 49
I thought the deal that the ctc cadets had did not mean handing over 30k for the type rating.

Was it not the case the cadets had completed the sim and were just awaiting base training for the course to be complete.

who paid for this training? was it ctc or easy? if this was the case thats why I would be worried about more cadets coming from the hold pool to replace the first group. once costs have been repaid why would easy give out flying hours worth talking about if they could give it to a new cadet and get the costs back from them so much faster.

what we end up with then is a huge pool of airbus trained, 700 hour flexicrew to join the existing bus pilots with twice the hours.
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Old 3rd Feb 2010, 17:43
  #351 (permalink)  
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kriskross is offline  
Old 3rd Feb 2010, 18:20
  #352 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Age: 78
Posts: 3,665
I would imagine that you could buy an individual swimming pool to put in your back garden for around 30,000?

If so, it would appear that easyJet has now invented a scheme whereby every single hopeful pilot could just as easily buy their own pool in which to swim instead of wasting his/her money trying to swim for just about every other bl**dy airline in the country including BA.
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Old 3rd Feb 2010, 20:24
  #353 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
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How true but at the same time sad
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Old 3rd Feb 2010, 22:16
  #354 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Bulgaria
Posts: 163
Or one of these... they almost fly, and girls love them more than your blue piece of paper.

fly_antonov is offline  
Old 5th Feb 2010, 02:36
  #355 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 2
there appears to be well paid contracting work over in Asia on the NG or 'bus for people with 1500 hours
maybe, but if you haven't flown in the last 3 months, they will not consider your application.
wanabe2100 is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2010, 12:45
  #356 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: dublin
Posts: 7
can someone post a link to the website where all this "good contracting is taking place"
paddyt56 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2010, 11:25
  #357 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ireland
Posts: 45
fly antonov thanks for your post. really helped me in making my mind up..

im sure now, your an idiot.. AF
Airbusfreak is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2010, 11:31
  #358 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Posts: 14
Well for the money we paid we could have paid someone like this to pay a visit to CTC HQ.....
VdV is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2010, 11:52
  #359 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: دبي
Age: 36
Posts: 19
can someone post a link to the website where all this "good contracting is taking place"
Facts About Flying
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Old 12th Feb 2010, 13:12
  #360 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Landing Gear Bay
Posts: 810
Originally Posted by ed_boy
can someone post a link to the website where all this "good contracting is taking place"
Facts About Flying
Actually it would it would be more like:
CTC FlexiCrew - Aircrew supply for airlines
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