Easyjet "holding pool"
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
after spending countless hours in front of a mirror wearing 4 stripes and practicing PA's ("this is your captain speaking...")
Doug change the record - you're boring. You don't like Locos' and younger pilots flying jets before having clocked up 10,000 hours flying an ATP pisses you off. We get it.
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hangar 69
Posts: 508
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not so much that I don't like low-cost (although I think low-cost is the cancer of aviation and it's spreading quickly) it's the fact that all T&C's in the entire aviation industry are under threat. The difference between low-cost airlines and more established airlines is that the pilots in traditional airlines actually fight back and (if lucky) can maintain a status quo!
Just like good CRM, situational awareness (where you came from, where you are, and where you're going) is something that is useful in all aspects of life, not just flying!
p.s. I never stated that I have a problem with any young bloke's ability to fly jets. Actually, it proves wind check's and my own point: anyone can so it!
But if you decide sacrifice all T&C's in order to fly those fancy jets, then don't be surprised that sooner or later you'll be flying for peanuts, which is exactly what's happening now.
Situational awareness is not only about looking at your current situation/paycheck, it also involves looking into the future...
Just like good CRM, situational awareness (where you came from, where you are, and where you're going) is something that is useful in all aspects of life, not just flying!
p.s. I never stated that I have a problem with any young bloke's ability to fly jets. Actually, it proves wind check's and my own point: anyone can so it!
But if you decide sacrifice all T&C's in order to fly those fancy jets, then don't be surprised that sooner or later you'll be flying for peanuts, which is exactly what's happening now. Situational awareness is not only about looking at your current situation/paycheck, it also involves looking into the future...
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Scotland mainly, rather than at home.
Posts: 387
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...(although I think low-cost is the cancer of aviation and it's spreading quickly) it's the fact that all T&C's in the entire aviation industry are under threat.
Now to the cancer: it is true, they are eroding terms and conditions because they can; market forces allow them. However the cancer goes further than this. They only recruit desperate newly qualifieds leaving experienced pilots wanting to climb the old traditional ladder finding that there are lots of rungs missing, and they have no rope. Before I worry about terms and conditions in a better job not being as good as they used to be I need that better job. Here and now my terms and conditions are far worse than at the Locos. So getting a job with them, would that be cancer or cure? I'm confused.
I would however argue strongly that with some solid experience behind me, and a few steam driven failures to handle in that time, I am far better placed to be the monkey to which Wind Check refers so glibly.
come on guys, i didn't want to pis.s you off...
...but that's how is our profession. Being a commercial pilot is not a glamorous job anymore. Our passenger buy a cheap ticket and don't give a s.hit of our job, they don't listen to the pilot's PA, and they feel like in a fast bus from A to B, and what they want is to arrive on time and get out of the airport as soon as possible. Airbus and Boeing are very modern airplanes, and they are easy to be operated by a low hour cadet.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: 'An Airfield Somewhere in England'
Posts: 1,094
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wind check - you started on here producing incorrect statements about the easyJet cadet contract currently on offer. Now you are making outlandish and woefully ignorant statements about flying the Airbus that are frankly embarassing. I fully accept that flying the A320 on MS Flt Sim is not too tricky but once you get out and about on a real aircraft of any kind, be it a Boeing or Airbus, you will just have to accept that some skill is required. You are coming across like a fresh air thief - you may want to reflect on your comments and think of a better way of engaging your readers.
Monarch Man - no one would dream of trying tell you that flying an A319 is difficult as they would just be wasting their breath. Nor will they tell you it is best to land with 3 greens as I am sure you know better.
Returning to the issue of easyJet recruitment - no one is justifying temporary commands, least of all BALPA. That is a reality they are having to deal with and fight as best they can. This is a serious fight and the only hope is BALPA fighting on our behalf.
Monarch Man - no one would dream of trying tell you that flying an A319 is difficult as they would just be wasting their breath. Nor will they tell you it is best to land with 3 greens as I am sure you know better.
Returning to the issue of easyJet recruitment - no one is justifying temporary commands, least of all BALPA. That is a reality they are having to deal with and fight as best they can. This is a serious fight and the only hope is BALPA fighting on our behalf.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Balpamyass Palace
Age: 53
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wind check - you started on here producing incorrect statements about the easyJet cadet contract currently on offer. Now you are making outlandish and woefully ignorant statements about flying the Airbus that are frankly embarassing. I fully accept that flying the A320 on MS Flt Sim is not too tricky but once you get out and about on a real aircraft of any kind, be it a Boeing or Airbus, you will just have to accept that some skill is required. You are coming across like a fresh air thief - you may want to reflect on your comments and think of a better way of engaging your readers.
Secondly, please be less stupid than your friends here, I am not a microsft flight sim pilot, havent touch this thing (very realistic though) for 10 years now. I used to fly the A320 for a south european low cost airline, and I know what I am talking about.
Doug wrote:
Wind check, don't worry too much about the criticism. A lot of these guys probably got their command during the last few years, after spending countless hours in front of a mirror wearing 4 stripes and practicing PA's ("this is your captain speaking..."), so anyone that threatens to pop their bubble is aggressively attacked.
), and they will feel like real B707 pilots like the the 1960's 
Michael O'leary is not my favourite one, but I am realistic and I must admit that he has been anticipating with a genuine success what aviation is and he knows how it will be. Modern aircraft, easy to operate, with cheap cadets and there you go! He has been the first to charge for checkin luggage, then easyjet was part of the airline who followed that brillant idea, and today, Iberia, Air France-KLM, and British Airways are about to do it as well! something interesting coming up in the years to come. Yes the low cost is an aviation Cancer and goes on very quickly.
Look at how is Ryanair how are Ryanair pilots now, and you will have an idea of the aviation of tomorrow in all airline companies.
When MOL say that pilots are mokeys seated on a bus with wings, paid to much for doing nothing, he is quite right, although It pisses me off.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A laser guided drone
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
when your in a hole windcheck stop digging
why is the mark of a good pilot for you someone who can fly with the flight directors off.just curious,what the hell has autotrim got to do with anything!?
firstly in my humble opinion the mark of a pilot is more than just the ability to fly raw data approaches.so why exactly does this matter so much to you? or define what makes one a pilot?i always thought it was down to the ability to manage the given situation, communicate effectively, prioritise, delegate, technical understanding the list just goes on and on.yes the ability to fly raw data is an element,but its far from the only requirement of what defines a pilot.these are all the elements you would appreciate as significant in defining a good pilot if you had any experience as a pilot.its what leads me to believe your a ms flt sim hero.all the things 'monkeys' cant do.
as for these people who you seem to believe enjoy posing,i dont know any of them.so where do you find all these people.most people i know seem to want to do the job to the best of their ability and then forget about it.
like i said you keep making yourself look more and more ridiculous with wild statements,so try and stop digging.
its quite possibly a language thing but your not creating a good image of yourself.you antagonise people with silly statements.if you were a 320 pilot then maybe have some respect for you industry/career.
can i ask you, are you currently employed or do you express your view on the value of a pilot at interviews?
ps whats a 'mokey', is that a monkey who cant fly raw data approaches
why is the mark of a good pilot for you someone who can fly with the flight directors off.just curious,what the hell has autotrim got to do with anything!?
firstly in my humble opinion the mark of a pilot is more than just the ability to fly raw data approaches.so why exactly does this matter so much to you? or define what makes one a pilot?i always thought it was down to the ability to manage the given situation, communicate effectively, prioritise, delegate, technical understanding the list just goes on and on.yes the ability to fly raw data is an element,but its far from the only requirement of what defines a pilot.these are all the elements you would appreciate as significant in defining a good pilot if you had any experience as a pilot.its what leads me to believe your a ms flt sim hero.all the things 'monkeys' cant do.
as for these people who you seem to believe enjoy posing,i dont know any of them.so where do you find all these people.most people i know seem to want to do the job to the best of their ability and then forget about it.
like i said you keep making yourself look more and more ridiculous with wild statements,so try and stop digging.
its quite possibly a language thing but your not creating a good image of yourself.you antagonise people with silly statements.if you were a 320 pilot then maybe have some respect for you industry/career.
can i ask you, are you currently employed or do you express your view on the value of a pilot at interviews?
ps whats a 'mokey', is that a monkey who cant fly raw data approaches
Last edited by blackred1443; 8th Oct 2009 at 13:32.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 783
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The easier the aircraft is to fly the better - leaves more capacity for looking out for cumulus granitus and other aircraft 
Monkeys can also process numerical data faster than most humans given adequate training, so what's your point? Can a monkey fly the aircraft safely? Not in my opinion, Wind Check. Your point is somewhat irrelevant to the reality of commercial flying.
Sorry, I'm compounding the thread creep.
AD
Monkeys can also process numerical data faster than most humans given adequate training, so what's your point? Can a monkey fly the aircraft safely? Not in my opinion, Wind Check. Your point is somewhat irrelevant to the reality of commercial flying.Sorry, I'm compounding the thread creep.
AD
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Balpamyass Palace
Age: 53
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
firstly in my humble opinion the mark of a good pilot is more than just the ability to fly raw data approaches.so why exactly does this matter so much to you? or define what makes one a good pilot?i always thought it was down to the ability to manage the given situation, communicate effectively, prioritise, delegate, technical understanding the list just goes on and on.yes the ability to fly raw data is an element,but its far from the only requirement of what defines a good pilot.these are all the elements you would appreciate as significant in defining a good pilot if you had any experience as a pilot.its what leads me to believe your a ms flt sim hero.all the things 'monkeys' cant do.
), may I send you back to post number #52 where I did write indeed that to me "good Pilots" do not exist. To begin with you'd better try to be humble. Oooooh you do raw data, what a man! do you wear raybans and are you one of those with big oldfashionned pilot suitcases with Airbus or Boeing stickers on it? Why would company hire a hero like yourself doing raw data or whatever thing when the aircraft flies better by itself, operated by a cheap cadet. If you want to fly, you'd better go to the flying club, do accrobatics, try to join the red bull air team, but please don't tell me you fly better than an airbus autopilot.
Think what you want, I have had enough with you, I have a significant experience on the A320, I reckon that there were some good points on that aircraft, but it's not because I used to be an A320 pilot (still current on it by the way) that I will say that this is a plane for top gun pilots and no 150 houred cadet could fly it, this is just untrue!! Bear in mind that in aviation honnesty is the main asset to keep a safe CRM
But maybe you just don't want to open your eyes and see the reality in fornt of you, that's your problem, not mine.
bye
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A laser guided drone
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i never claimed i fly better than an autopilot,and i never said i fly raw data approaches.what you did say was that monkeys can do what pilots do.am i wrong so far?
you continually referred to the ability to fly raw data, i'm merely suggesting that this is only a part of the role of a pilot.there are others facets, all of which you have ignored in your posts.this leads me to question how much you actually know about the subject you are discussing
i was being humble, i did say in my humble opinion. and i do fly at an aeroclub thanks, i enjoy it too.as to why would an airline hired me over a cadet.many reasons, both low houred cadets and those with more time have valuable roles to fill in any airline.experienced people will have the requirements for command quicker to name but one reason.or maybe you think monkeys should sit in the left too.maybe you could have an all monkey flight deck and penguins instead of cabin crew to do the safety demo.
i never said the 320/737 or any other type is only for top gun.it clearly isnt.im merely expressing my disagreement with you making wild statements about how a monkey can fly a jet/turboprop.
as for the good pilots dont exist thing.im a little confused here its probably a language thing.i dont really understand the point your trying to make.
as for my honesty, not really sure what your getting as here either
now answer me
1 what qualifies as having signinficant airbus experience, as looking as your recent post history you only got a licence not so long ago
.(or do we log ms flt sim time too!?)
2 do you express these views on monkeys repacing pilots during interviews
3 are you currently employed
as you can probably tell question 2 and 3 are linked
you continually referred to the ability to fly raw data, i'm merely suggesting that this is only a part of the role of a pilot.there are others facets, all of which you have ignored in your posts.this leads me to question how much you actually know about the subject you are discussing
i was being humble, i did say in my humble opinion. and i do fly at an aeroclub thanks, i enjoy it too.as to why would an airline hired me over a cadet.many reasons, both low houred cadets and those with more time have valuable roles to fill in any airline.experienced people will have the requirements for command quicker to name but one reason.or maybe you think monkeys should sit in the left too.maybe you could have an all monkey flight deck and penguins instead of cabin crew to do the safety demo.
i never said the 320/737 or any other type is only for top gun.it clearly isnt.im merely expressing my disagreement with you making wild statements about how a monkey can fly a jet/turboprop.
as for the good pilots dont exist thing.im a little confused here its probably a language thing.i dont really understand the point your trying to make.
as for my honesty, not really sure what your getting as here either
now answer me
1 what qualifies as having signinficant airbus experience, as looking as your recent post history you only got a licence not so long ago
.(or do we log ms flt sim time too!?)
2 do you express these views on monkeys repacing pilots during interviews
3 are you currently employed
as you can probably tell question 2 and 3 are linked
please don't tell me you fly better than an airbus autopilot.
You are still missing the vital point that there is a so much more to commercial flight than 'up down left and right'.
As for you telling people about CRM - sorry, had to have a good laugh at that one.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Balpamyass Palace
Age: 53
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i never claimed i fly better than an autopilot
This is why Cadets can fly an Airbus/Boeing..
PS: Yes I am currently employed flying long haul in the middle east (thanks god conditions are still good, but we do have our cadets).
I just hate pilots who think nobody can fly an airliner. Of course it requieres intensive 18 month training for the frozen atpl plus a further 4 weeks to get the type rating plus another 3 weeks to do the line training...
Judging by the amount of time windcheck has on his hands and his obvious bitterness towards EZY, he must be a failed/rejected candidate.
Still, every cloud has a silver lining - look at the entertainment value he is giving us on here!!!!
If only he'd learn to spell .............
Still, every cloud has a silver lining - look at the entertainment value he is giving us on here!!!!
If only he'd learn to spell .............
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: A laser guided drone
Posts: 598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but your initial statement that got everyones back up was pilots could be replaced by monkeys not about who could fly more accurately an autopilot or a human.i disagree with ......oh i give up
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Balpamyass Palace
Age: 53
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but your initial statement that got everyones back up was pilots could be replaced by monkeys not about who could fly more accurately an autopilot or a human
Anyway the thread is about easyjet holding pool, and cadets have been offered a crap winter flexi-crew contract yesterday. That's how is low cost. Low cost means costs are low
PS: Yes, sorry for my english, I am Portuguese (I wish English people could speak at least a second language as bad as my english
)
wind check:
I love your monkeys!
The captain cannot believe the latest ACARS message from the company.
The F/O looks very intelligent but is reluctant to interfere in order to protect his future.
The F/E simply cannot believe what the pair of them are doing to his engines and absolutely does not agree with their choice of diversion airfield.
I love your monkeys!
The captain cannot believe the latest ACARS message from the company.
The F/O looks very intelligent but is reluctant to interfere in order to protect his future.
The F/E simply cannot believe what the pair of them are doing to his engines and absolutely does not agree with their choice of diversion airfield.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: England
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To the moderator and all,
Please, please, please, can we stop all this bitching and back biting and get back to the thread!!!!!
As an experienced air force multi-engine captain it seems as if I will not be able to get a job in the airline world as I am now too experienced to be a FO and I dont have the type rating for DEC. I am interested in the holding pool prospects for myself and others and what other options there may be.
I would be happy to suck up 6 months of low pay to get 500 hours on a modern commercial jet.
Thanks
Please, please, please, can we stop all this bitching and back biting and get back to the thread!!!!!
As an experienced air force multi-engine captain it seems as if I will not be able to get a job in the airline world as I am now too experienced to be a FO and I dont have the type rating for DEC. I am interested in the holding pool prospects for myself and others and what other options there may be.
I would be happy to suck up 6 months of low pay to get 500 hours on a modern commercial jet.
Thanks
When I came out of the RAF at the end of 1978 with 8000 hours and an ATPL I had no less than six instant job offers (going from BAC 1-11 with Monarch through B737 with Britannia to DC-10 with Laker).
Things are not like that any more.
Being realistic, the only thing I can suggest (assumng that you already have your ATPL) is to pay for a 738 type rating with Ryanair and join as a F/O.
With your background and three years of earning pretty good money, you will be in a good position to get your command.
The world has changed.
Things are not like that any more.
Being realistic, the only thing I can suggest (assumng that you already have your ATPL) is to pay for a 738 type rating with Ryanair and join as a F/O.
With your background and three years of earning pretty good money, you will be in a good position to get your command.
The world has changed.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Europa
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"I would be happy to suck up 6 months of low pay to get 500 hours on a modern commercial jet."
and here is the reason Ts&Cs get lower and lower whilst trainees pay more and more.......
Don't do it! Save the money and fly a little longer in HM's Services - it is far better than LOCO life !
and here is the reason Ts&Cs get lower and lower whilst trainees pay more and more.......
Don't do it! Save the money and fly a little longer in HM's Services - it is far better than LOCO life !
My friend is an ex -RN F4 pilot- a more modest top gun you could not find.He currently flies the A319.He does not think that it is easy.With experience comes respect and humility -notably absent in some cases around here.
b/rgds
b/rgds
