The Job Front - Note to the Unions, Chief Pilots, Agencies and Fellow Pilots
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Jesus Checkboard, you must have a thing for Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V verging on OCD.
I never advocated buying a TR it started in post #45 and cotinued in #46 and #47. As mentioned it is a discussion for another thread and has been covered in many others at great length.
I accept your point about Germany, however I went for a job there and was then told the German Union (called the WV from memory) inisited on fluent German after the sim check despite initially allowing you to sit a language test 6 months after starting. They listened to their members and acted.
Part of the reason for this thread is I find myself unemployed in a market downturn. I highlighted some issues I hadn't seen covered in other threads.
2 years ago during the "2 week" scenario, the world was a different place from now. I didn't benefit from it and I don't know how those hired did when things started going arwy. I operate in the here and now opposed to looking back.
People undertake training knowing it takes anything from 1 year to quite a few if you are modular. Knowing what the market is like when you qualify is the hard one to gauge. Easiest thing in the world to do is to employ hindsight.
No Aussie grandparents or parents or I would. There is no point in my looking at vacancies in a country where I have no right to live and work. I also don't have the money to convert my licence or pay for the visa. However I do think there is more scope for general aviation in your country than here as I discussed earlier.
I never advocated buying a TR it started in post #45 and cotinued in #46 and #47. As mentioned it is a discussion for another thread and has been covered in many others at great length.
I accept your point about Germany, however I went for a job there and was then told the German Union (called the WV from memory) inisited on fluent German after the sim check despite initially allowing you to sit a language test 6 months after starting. They listened to their members and acted.
Part of the reason for this thread is I find myself unemployed in a market downturn. I highlighted some issues I hadn't seen covered in other threads.
2 years ago during the "2 week" scenario, the world was a different place from now. I didn't benefit from it and I don't know how those hired did when things started going arwy. I operate in the here and now opposed to looking back.
People undertake training knowing it takes anything from 1 year to quite a few if you are modular. Knowing what the market is like when you qualify is the hard one to gauge. Easiest thing in the world to do is to employ hindsight.
No Aussie grandparents or parents or I would. There is no point in my looking at vacancies in a country where I have no right to live and work. I also don't have the money to convert my licence or pay for the visa. However I do think there is more scope for general aviation in your country than here as I discussed earlier.
The whole point of my quoting your words back at you, is to point out that you are talking tosh.
You mutter about not having OZ grandparents, so you haven't looked at the market - that is a fine statement, you then go on to state that the job market is easier there than here. Now normally I would just quote those words to show that the first statement shows the second statement to be ridiculous. If you state you don't know the market - then you have also stated that you cannot make a comparison.
You find yourself unemployed in a market downturn - well you're not Robinson Crusoe there, friend. It's just your the only one looking to blame someone else about it.
You don't need Aussie Grandparents to work in Australia. You obviously haven't bothered to look at the requirements.
You mutter about not having OZ grandparents, so you haven't looked at the market - that is a fine statement, you then go on to state that the job market is easier there than here. Now normally I would just quote those words to show that the first statement shows the second statement to be ridiculous. If you state you don't know the market - then you have also stated that you cannot make a comparison.
You find yourself unemployed in a market downturn - well you're not Robinson Crusoe there, friend. It's just your the only one looking to blame someone else about it.
You don't need Aussie Grandparents to work in Australia. You obviously haven't bothered to look at the requirements.
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No I don't have Aussie grandparents, but if I did I think I'd find it that little teency weency bit easier.
Who exactly am I blaming?
I suggested CP's should be aware that things are different from when they went through their training and don't judge the newly qualified by what they had to battle.
I suggested there was more scope for general aviation in other countries.
I suggested the UK market was one open to possibly the widest pool of pilots than any other western country.
I advocated support for UK nationals from the UK Pilots union.
Never said I was against people moving here or had any sectarian, racist or nationalistic tendencies.
1% of a line pilots salary per year = 20-40 unemployed members paying £24. Lot more to administer and keep happy. I see why BALPA keep a wide berth and don't listen.
Awful easy to throw insults when you are at the other end of a computer.
Look we don't agree, I fear a bit of the red mist when you percieved my comments as anti-antipodean which they weren't. If you want to continue the mud slinging lets do it by PM.
Who exactly am I blaming?
I suggested CP's should be aware that things are different from when they went through their training and don't judge the newly qualified by what they had to battle.
I suggested there was more scope for general aviation in other countries.
I suggested the UK market was one open to possibly the widest pool of pilots than any other western country.
I advocated support for UK nationals from the UK Pilots union.
Never said I was against people moving here or had any sectarian, racist or nationalistic tendencies.
1% of a line pilots salary per year = 20-40 unemployed members paying £24. Lot more to administer and keep happy. I see why BALPA keep a wide berth and don't listen.
Awful easy to throw insults when you are at the other end of a computer.
Look we don't agree, I fear a bit of the red mist when you percieved my comments as anti-antipodean which they weren't. If you want to continue the mud slinging lets do it by PM.
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Dreamshiner,
Same question for you. What precisely would you like that BALPA does about it. Tell me of the exact case you want them to represent for you.
And when BALPA would stand up for you, what would the CAA do? As has been said earlier in this thread the hiring policy has not a lot to do with the CAA as long as you comply with all the requirements.
CEJM.
Same question for you. What precisely would you like that BALPA does about it. Tell me of the exact case you want them to represent for you.
And when BALPA would stand up for you, what would the CAA do? As has been said earlier in this thread the hiring policy has not a lot to do with the CAA as long as you comply with all the requirements.
CEJM.
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Dreamshiner, by ruling out instructing or other GA work you are ruling out the types of flying which you might conceivably be able to fund for yourself, even if only a few hours each year. For most of us, until you have a good number of hours (2000 I would suggest) it is remarkable how rapidly the skills degrade. A Cessna 152 is of course hugely different from a 90 tonne airliner, but the skills DO transfer- a future employer would also probably see it as a good idea for you to do whatever you can to retain your skills.
You are of course free to disregard this advice; however there is a very real risk that if the downturn lasts more than 18 months to two years that you will never work as a pilot; the training risk involved in hiring you, instead of a fresh graduate (or an instructor in current flying practice) would simply be too great.
Please note that none of the above is an attack on you, or on your skills; it is an observation based on my experience as both a student and an instructor, and over a decade of flying jets from 15- 90 tonnes.
You are of course free to disregard this advice; however there is a very real risk that if the downturn lasts more than 18 months to two years that you will never work as a pilot; the training risk involved in hiring you, instead of a fresh graduate (or an instructor in current flying practice) would simply be too great.
Please note that none of the above is an attack on you, or on your skills; it is an observation based on my experience as both a student and an instructor, and over a decade of flying jets from 15- 90 tonnes.
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Dreamshiner,
At the risk of repeating myself can you tell me exactly what you want BALPA and the CAA to do about current hiring policy in the UK. This debate has gone on and on, but won't reach a conclusion until you highlight precisely what it is you want done...........
At the risk of repeating myself can you tell me exactly what you want BALPA and the CAA to do about current hiring policy in the UK. This debate has gone on and on, but won't reach a conclusion until you highlight precisely what it is you want done...........
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1400hrs jet jock with inflated ego and escalating expectations . . .
"I have a mortgage to pay, a girl I want to settle down with . . ." . . . "Also you find lots of Brits abroad in the Middle East as when a government funds a tourist industry and global hub airlines through oil money with rapid expansion then you need to bring in trained professionals, 1 aircraft every 2 months is unsubstainable for the UAE which has an indigenous population of 300,000 (same as Belfast).
What's your point? Are you not considering working in the sandbox because of indigenous demographics? Because there are more foreign workers in the sandbox than locals? Don't you know that all the foreigners need to fly in and out? GF, EK, EY, QR, SV, in fact carry more guest workers than tourists and locals. For that matter you could also compare tiny city state Singapore and wrongly conclude that SQ's world wide network is "unsustainable" because of its small indigenous population.
So sorry, but your sob story suggests that you had grown up with the dangerous idea that the world owes you something.
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Career Advice
Dreamshiner,
I sympathize with your position. The music stopped (as in the game of musical chairs) just as you had made a leap up the ladder.
Most un-employed pilots go back to what they were doing prior to the furlough. In fact, the strategy I and my peers used was to stay involved with the military reserve branch until the seniority list had 'enough' pilots below you to be furlough-proof then quit the reserves.
Politely, I suggest you are working it too hard with your in-depth analysis. Even if all you say is true in your original post, you need to get in the right seat of a twin, fly corporate, mail, freight, students, parachute-jumpers, students in your old T/R course, anything! Did you know pipelines and powerlines need to be flown over regularly by small airplanes to meet an inspection requirement.
Look at all options that pay you to fly. Be it third world, communist, sandy, seasonal (when is the hadj?), small country or large, small/large plane, single or twin. You need to get on a rung of the ladder. (don't scab or break the law, however)
You may have skipped steps earlier in your career. This is your oppurtunity to make them up. Not by your choosing, or because it is easy or fun, but it is what life has dropped at your feet.
Talk to pilots that endured previous recessions, fuel crisis, controller strikes, etc. When you are in the middle of it, it looks like there is no future at all. Then when it ends, there are rapid advancements when firms jump to make up lost time, market share, profits, etc.
It is like accumulating equities while the market is down. What you accumunlate will be of value at some point in the future.
Let me close with a question. Would you fly as a co-pilot on a twin otter flying tourists on sight-seeing trips over the Grand Canyon? PM answer is ok.
To put it lightly (or tritely) ....make lemonade out of lemons!
R
I sympathize with your position. The music stopped (as in the game of musical chairs) just as you had made a leap up the ladder.
Most un-employed pilots go back to what they were doing prior to the furlough. In fact, the strategy I and my peers used was to stay involved with the military reserve branch until the seniority list had 'enough' pilots below you to be furlough-proof then quit the reserves.
Politely, I suggest you are working it too hard with your in-depth analysis. Even if all you say is true in your original post, you need to get in the right seat of a twin, fly corporate, mail, freight, students, parachute-jumpers, students in your old T/R course, anything! Did you know pipelines and powerlines need to be flown over regularly by small airplanes to meet an inspection requirement.
Look at all options that pay you to fly. Be it third world, communist, sandy, seasonal (when is the hadj?), small country or large, small/large plane, single or twin. You need to get on a rung of the ladder. (don't scab or break the law, however)
You may have skipped steps earlier in your career. This is your oppurtunity to make them up. Not by your choosing, or because it is easy or fun, but it is what life has dropped at your feet.
Talk to pilots that endured previous recessions, fuel crisis, controller strikes, etc. When you are in the middle of it, it looks like there is no future at all. Then when it ends, there are rapid advancements when firms jump to make up lost time, market share, profits, etc.
It is like accumulating equities while the market is down. What you accumunlate will be of value at some point in the future.
Let me close with a question. Would you fly as a co-pilot on a twin otter flying tourists on sight-seeing trips over the Grand Canyon? PM answer is ok.
To put it lightly (or tritely) ....make lemonade out of lemons!
R
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Sorry, have been away for most of the week, hence late in replying.
I think there's a couple of bits being missed here. My comment wasn't that BALPA should "do something about it". My point is that as a group of professional pilots, we should be having input to FCL. Where BALPA come into it, from my pov, is that they are as near to an organised group of the professional pilots in the British Isles as I am aware of right now. This means that this group may be the best placed to try and get involved in influencing the CAA in respect of FCL. Equally, they may not be, but my counter to the questions of "what do you want BALPA to do about it" is "If not BALPA, who - or do you think that pilots should have no input to what goes into FCL - because the airlines and the FTOs most assuredly DO lobby the CAA in their interests."
As to what I personally think FCL should contain, well I can make a fairly compelling case in my own head for a minimum qualification level of at least 5 GCSEs A-C (let's face it, this profession can still offer 6 figure salaries if you get it right....name any other profession where someone with no qualifications can do that...). I can make a compelling argument to myself that FCL should include the requirement to have two Captains present on the flight deck at all times if the FO is not an "employee" of the company [and commensurately paid] - which would help kill Pay to fly schemes. I can make an argument for a centrally administered aptitude test which must be passed before professional training can be undertaken.
Any/All of you are free to agree or otherwise whether these are too hard/too soft/effective/ineffective, or that BALPA is the right or wrong vehicle to represent these views to the cAA, but the point is that currently the pilots have no input to the rules which govern our licences, yet the airlines and the FTOs DO and will petition the CAA for FCL that suits them. Now you may well say, but how do you get consensus - well you vote....but really how many of you would say having a base qualification level, for example could be anything other than good for the profession?
We as pilots working or not then wonder why our Ts and Cs go down the pan....
One last point, it seems to me - and I remain open to persuasion otherwise on this, that BALPA will only back a cause when a critical mass has been achieved, so asking student members to petition BALPA is totally out of the question.....you are talking thousands upon thousands all with different circumstances and ideas as to what can/should be done....If you can't gain consensus within one company, then there really is no hope for students or unemployed pilots to consolidate.
I think there's a couple of bits being missed here. My comment wasn't that BALPA should "do something about it". My point is that as a group of professional pilots, we should be having input to FCL. Where BALPA come into it, from my pov, is that they are as near to an organised group of the professional pilots in the British Isles as I am aware of right now. This means that this group may be the best placed to try and get involved in influencing the CAA in respect of FCL. Equally, they may not be, but my counter to the questions of "what do you want BALPA to do about it" is "If not BALPA, who - or do you think that pilots should have no input to what goes into FCL - because the airlines and the FTOs most assuredly DO lobby the CAA in their interests."
As to what I personally think FCL should contain, well I can make a fairly compelling case in my own head for a minimum qualification level of at least 5 GCSEs A-C (let's face it, this profession can still offer 6 figure salaries if you get it right....name any other profession where someone with no qualifications can do that...). I can make a compelling argument to myself that FCL should include the requirement to have two Captains present on the flight deck at all times if the FO is not an "employee" of the company [and commensurately paid] - which would help kill Pay to fly schemes. I can make an argument for a centrally administered aptitude test which must be passed before professional training can be undertaken.
Any/All of you are free to agree or otherwise whether these are too hard/too soft/effective/ineffective, or that BALPA is the right or wrong vehicle to represent these views to the cAA, but the point is that currently the pilots have no input to the rules which govern our licences, yet the airlines and the FTOs DO and will petition the CAA for FCL that suits them. Now you may well say, but how do you get consensus - well you vote....but really how many of you would say having a base qualification level, for example could be anything other than good for the profession?
We as pilots working or not then wonder why our Ts and Cs go down the pan....
One last point, it seems to me - and I remain open to persuasion otherwise on this, that BALPA will only back a cause when a critical mass has been achieved, so asking student members to petition BALPA is totally out of the question.....you are talking thousands upon thousands all with different circumstances and ideas as to what can/should be done....If you can't gain consensus within one company, then there really is no hope for students or unemployed pilots to consolidate.
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I totally concur with retire 2015. I too have lost my jet job in the recession, but have taken something else that was available due to previously working through instructing, charter etc (and actually find it more rewarding than the jet). I never bought a TR, and guess that the lesson is that purchasing such might seem a useful bypass of the more traditional route on the way up, but doesn't help as much on the way down during an industry downturn. I wish you well, but know of many good guys in the same boat, and suggest you forget the shiny jet sob story, or the conspiracy against me stuff, and look for ANYTHING that pays.
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I accept your point about Germany, however I went for a job there and was then told the German Union (called the WV from memory) inisited on fluent German after the sim check despite initially allowing you to sit a language test 6 months after starting. They listened to their members and acted.
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Great thread. I wish I was the CEO of a large Transport Company & I would hire the lot of you. Very articulate, often intellectual, extremely supportive of eachother.
Dreamshiner, who started it;stick with it. You will succeed. This is all just a matter of supply & demand. The Industry has over-supplied into a shrinking market.
I have just hung up my flying boots after 40 glorious years & 22500 hours.
I was "Sponsored" in 1971. Those were, indeed ,the glory days where everything was paid for & we even got local Education Grants for upkeep ! I had to repay one third of Training costs over a five year period. That was all "then". Airlines were having to do this in response to the shrinking market supply of military pilots. BOAC & BEA opened up Hamble in, around ,1963 and called it the Joint Corporation Pilot Training Scheme. The Corporation claimed that they would never, direct recruit and that all employment would be through the College of Air Training at Hamble. Well, that all changed, too, quite quickly.
BOAC/BEA continued to supply cadets to Hamble, Oxford & even Perth at a time when they were having difficulty in employing current graduates. All, really, slow responses to a very quick-change environment.
Today, I admire you lot. It is a bad demand market &, foreseeable. I was astonished, some years ago when supply schools were predicting a pilot shortage & then pumping into a clearly shrinking market, you fabulous people ! A bit like the mis-selling in pensions & investment, you guys might have a case for being mis-sold by these cash hungry schools.
Very best wishes and thoughts to the finest group of people I know. An industry thoroughly deserving of all of you.
Dreamshiner, who started it;stick with it. You will succeed. This is all just a matter of supply & demand. The Industry has over-supplied into a shrinking market.
I have just hung up my flying boots after 40 glorious years & 22500 hours.
I was "Sponsored" in 1971. Those were, indeed ,the glory days where everything was paid for & we even got local Education Grants for upkeep ! I had to repay one third of Training costs over a five year period. That was all "then". Airlines were having to do this in response to the shrinking market supply of military pilots. BOAC & BEA opened up Hamble in, around ,1963 and called it the Joint Corporation Pilot Training Scheme. The Corporation claimed that they would never, direct recruit and that all employment would be through the College of Air Training at Hamble. Well, that all changed, too, quite quickly.
BOAC/BEA continued to supply cadets to Hamble, Oxford & even Perth at a time when they were having difficulty in employing current graduates. All, really, slow responses to a very quick-change environment.
Today, I admire you lot. It is a bad demand market &, foreseeable. I was astonished, some years ago when supply schools were predicting a pilot shortage & then pumping into a clearly shrinking market, you fabulous people ! A bit like the mis-selling in pensions & investment, you guys might have a case for being mis-sold by these cash hungry schools.
Very best wishes and thoughts to the finest group of people I know. An industry thoroughly deserving of all of you.
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With the demise of another UK airline Globespan last week I feel compelled to reopen this thread. To be honest I went on vacation after my last post and kinda forgot all about it (to my peril).
Fellow Aviators, lend me your eyes, for I will share the following with you, for some it may be old news, it may be conjecture, it may be bollocks, however it will make you think, ponder and hopefully investigate if nothing else. If my facts are incorrect I have no issue with editing this post to ensure the record is correct (in nice big red letters).
It will come as no surprise I feel BALPA are letting those down at the start of their career. And now I feel those well into their own.
Charging £60-odd to hold a conference at LHR, invited Etihad and Emirates to give a talk to newly qualified pilots and tell them "when you get 4,000 hours drop us a line", highlights for me how out of touch they are.
There are a few things though I have read on other threads on PPRuNe that I feel need addressing:
The SmartLynx thread for one - http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...-loud-lol.html - BALPA have no jurisdiction so can't be bashed on this one however they could drop a line to their Latvian sister union but the CAA should definetly be all over this. What is the point in licences and attaining them, the costs incurred and even conversions if the rules are bent? I don't know much about this particular case however from what I have read so far its not pretty reading. Does anyone know if something similar goes on in the US, Aus with JAA pilots?
TCX - Have a reciprocal agreement with Transair in Canada, as it stood, Thomas Cook send pilots over in UK low season (winter) and get Canadian pilots in summer (Canadian low season). I was meant to be like for like, i.e. 10 UK pilots = 10 Canadians. 8 UK pilots there this year, TCX looking to bring 30 in summer 2010. 7 months line flying for 22 UK based/nationals has surely to be championed by the union? Are these figures and details correct?
Easyjet - http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...er-2010-a.html - Numerous SFO's ready/waiting on upgrade, agency captains being brought in for summer. Yuk yuk yukkkkkk
Easyjet-Oxford - http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...n-academy.html -
Even more outrageous when you read above. Scheme to buy a TR. Granted if you wanted to market such a scheme that school would be first choice by a country mile, however doesn't justify it.
*******************************************************
Let me also clear up some thing before moving on:
To CEJM/StressFree - This is a rumour network/discussion website. I started this thread to convey my observations, throw out some hypothesis and see how it went. Maybe it would open a few eyes, raise or furrow a few eyebrows or even throw some back. I never claimed to be all knowing or omnipotent, however feel free to erect a temple, furnish it with a gold statue of my likeness (at least 20ft tall please) and worship my wisdom. Last time you were in the pub did you say, "bloody recession, have had to tighten the belt ..... ", then outline your fiscal rescue package in detail to your drinking buddies.
L'Aviateur - Never advocated my US initial licence, it worked for me financially, personally and timescale-wise. I would have happily trained in the UK if I got a 35-50% discount voucher to use every time I arrived at my local flight school and flown VFR 320 days a year.
Retire2015 - I would fly ET's bicycle as a cruise pilot let alone a twin otter. I started this thread as I was exasperated at what I perceived in the industry I entered 5 years ago. I have called in every favour, pursued jobs in Jebrovia to Timbuktu flying anything from a crop duster up. I value your comments and thank you however please trust me there is not one thing you mention I haven't pursued already I would be letting myself down and the £100,000 it cost me to attain my licences.
CarltonBrowne the FO - I can't justify a FI rating now when I owe money and am not guaranteed regular income. When I opted for my jet rating it was approximately £10k more expensive, the previous course all got offers 2 weeks before their sims finished and I could pay the initial outlay off and still be £20k better off 1 year later ..... ahh hindsight. I do agree though my scan has faded very quickly.
Denti - I was advised by the recruitment consultancy that the VC had locked the door on foreigners being hired under pressure from a group in another airline. I can't verify if it was true or not, it was what I was told and therefore what I wrote. If you wish to PM me I will happily tell your when, the employer and agency and the politics surrounding it.
Clanger32 - This is the sort of reply I was hoping to stimulate. I agree with you on almost every point, others your raised made me think and alter my perception so thank you.
Landflap - Sir, I doff my cap to your experience, wisdom and kind words.
Fellow Aviators, lend me your eyes, for I will share the following with you, for some it may be old news, it may be conjecture, it may be bollocks, however it will make you think, ponder and hopefully investigate if nothing else. If my facts are incorrect I have no issue with editing this post to ensure the record is correct (in nice big red letters).
It will come as no surprise I feel BALPA are letting those down at the start of their career. And now I feel those well into their own.
Charging £60-odd to hold a conference at LHR, invited Etihad and Emirates to give a talk to newly qualified pilots and tell them "when you get 4,000 hours drop us a line", highlights for me how out of touch they are.
There are a few things though I have read on other threads on PPRuNe that I feel need addressing:
The SmartLynx thread for one - http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...-loud-lol.html - BALPA have no jurisdiction so can't be bashed on this one however they could drop a line to their Latvian sister union but the CAA should definetly be all over this. What is the point in licences and attaining them, the costs incurred and even conversions if the rules are bent? I don't know much about this particular case however from what I have read so far its not pretty reading. Does anyone know if something similar goes on in the US, Aus with JAA pilots?
TCX - Have a reciprocal agreement with Transair in Canada, as it stood, Thomas Cook send pilots over in UK low season (winter) and get Canadian pilots in summer (Canadian low season). I was meant to be like for like, i.e. 10 UK pilots = 10 Canadians. 8 UK pilots there this year, TCX looking to bring 30 in summer 2010. 7 months line flying for 22 UK based/nationals has surely to be championed by the union? Are these figures and details correct?
Easyjet - http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...er-2010-a.html - Numerous SFO's ready/waiting on upgrade, agency captains being brought in for summer. Yuk yuk yukkkkkk
Easyjet-Oxford - http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearme...n-academy.html -
Even more outrageous when you read above. Scheme to buy a TR. Granted if you wanted to market such a scheme that school would be first choice by a country mile, however doesn't justify it.
*******************************************************
Let me also clear up some thing before moving on:
To CEJM/StressFree - This is a rumour network/discussion website. I started this thread to convey my observations, throw out some hypothesis and see how it went. Maybe it would open a few eyes, raise or furrow a few eyebrows or even throw some back. I never claimed to be all knowing or omnipotent, however feel free to erect a temple, furnish it with a gold statue of my likeness (at least 20ft tall please) and worship my wisdom. Last time you were in the pub did you say, "bloody recession, have had to tighten the belt ..... ", then outline your fiscal rescue package in detail to your drinking buddies.
L'Aviateur - Never advocated my US initial licence, it worked for me financially, personally and timescale-wise. I would have happily trained in the UK if I got a 35-50% discount voucher to use every time I arrived at my local flight school and flown VFR 320 days a year.
Retire2015 - I would fly ET's bicycle as a cruise pilot let alone a twin otter. I started this thread as I was exasperated at what I perceived in the industry I entered 5 years ago. I have called in every favour, pursued jobs in Jebrovia to Timbuktu flying anything from a crop duster up. I value your comments and thank you however please trust me there is not one thing you mention I haven't pursued already I would be letting myself down and the £100,000 it cost me to attain my licences.
CarltonBrowne the FO - I can't justify a FI rating now when I owe money and am not guaranteed regular income. When I opted for my jet rating it was approximately £10k more expensive, the previous course all got offers 2 weeks before their sims finished and I could pay the initial outlay off and still be £20k better off 1 year later ..... ahh hindsight. I do agree though my scan has faded very quickly.
Denti - I was advised by the recruitment consultancy that the VC had locked the door on foreigners being hired under pressure from a group in another airline. I can't verify if it was true or not, it was what I was told and therefore what I wrote. If you wish to PM me I will happily tell your when, the employer and agency and the politics surrounding it.
Clanger32 - This is the sort of reply I was hoping to stimulate. I agree with you on almost every point, others your raised made me think and alter my perception so thank you.
Landflap - Sir, I doff my cap to your experience, wisdom and kind words.
Last edited by Dreamshiner; 21st Dec 2009 at 05:34.
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I concur BALPA are proving to be rather ineffective. Surely protection from these collective cancers are exactly why BALPA exists?
Perhaps a pprune lead 'Rage against the Machine' where we ALL stop paying our 'subs' on mass might finally wake them up and spur some action?
If we are still paying our monthly subs we must be satisfied with the service received?
Perhaps a pprune lead 'Rage against the Machine' where we ALL stop paying our 'subs' on mass might finally wake them up and spur some action?
If we are still paying our monthly subs we must be satisfied with the service received?
Thread Starter
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NumeroGrande - Genius, like a 60's feminist I have my symbolic bra (replaced with my DD mandate) ready for BBQ.
Off topic - I wonder if the slightly effeminate Joe cried last night? Even money odds I reckon.
Off topic - I wonder if the slightly effeminate Joe cried last night? Even money odds I reckon.
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Big Number:
You're raging against the wrong machine here. Stop paying Balpa subs and your situation will not improve one bit.
The two culprits in your plight are
a) the airlines for providing such degrading conditions.
b) wannabes (primarily) for accepting them.
Rather than leading a campaign against Balpa (a case of friendly fire if ever there was one), why not lead a campaign to stop your fellow wannabes accepting $hit and thus end the ruthless stabbing in your back, and the backs of every professional pilot?
You're raging against the wrong machine here. Stop paying Balpa subs and your situation will not improve one bit.
The two culprits in your plight are
a) the airlines for providing such degrading conditions.
b) wannabes (primarily) for accepting them.
Rather than leading a campaign against Balpa (a case of friendly fire if ever there was one), why not lead a campaign to stop your fellow wannabes accepting $hit and thus end the ruthless stabbing in your back, and the backs of every professional pilot?
Join Date: Dec 2009
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fresh graduate pilot
hey every1
i just got my CPL from philippines i have 350 hours can any1 advice me what is better for me 2 get a job in airlines should i go for airbus 320 rating or somthing else is gud for me to get in airlines
thank you
i just got my CPL from philippines i have 350 hours can any1 advice me what is better for me 2 get a job in airlines should i go for airbus 320 rating or somthing else is gud for me to get in airlines
thank you
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Advice For You
Dear Dreamshiner,
YOU WERE BORN IN WRONG COUNTRY. WE WILL COME AND TAKE ALL THE JOBS AND YOU HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE AND BE A FOREIGN PILOT LIKE ME. TASTE IS NOT GOOD BUT JOB IS.
SO PLEASE DO NOT GIVE ADVICES TO ANYBODY.
YOU WERE BORN IN WRONG COUNTRY. WE WILL COME AND TAKE ALL THE JOBS AND YOU HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE AND BE A FOREIGN PILOT LIKE ME. TASTE IS NOT GOOD BUT JOB IS.
SO PLEASE DO NOT GIVE ADVICES TO ANYBODY.