Lufthansa Italia?
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Well spoken, Warmkiter. Unfortunately, you won't be fighting for me as DLR did not like my performance, so I'll stay where I am, but the better conditions the majors have, the easier it is for the rest of us to get proper T&Cs.
Don't mind the jealous types who prefer to drag everyone else down if they can't have the best conditions.
Don't mind the jealous types who prefer to drag everyone else down if they can't have the best conditions.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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@warmkiter
in case the regionals like Contact Air, Augsburg Airways, City Line or Eurowings would earn the same as you guys, form lets say January 2009, would then you let them fly your 747's or A 340's??
I guess not....
in case the regionals like Contact Air, Augsburg Airways, City Line or Eurowings would earn the same as you guys, form lets say January 2009, would then you let them fly your 747's or A 340's??
I guess not....
Join Date: May 2004
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why arent you guys just happy that somebody is fighting for T&C s?
why dont underpaid guys understand that the industry leaders are setting standarts for everybody? If Main carriers get paid less, you can be sure that the regionals dont get a payrise............
why dont underpaid guys understand that the industry leaders are setting standarts for everybody? If Main carriers get paid less, you can be sure that the regionals dont get a payrise............
Oh my dear. So just to make this clear, your nice LH comes to Italy and starts flying routes from Italy to Spain, France, etc, thats OK, but your shiny LH pays salaries well below what is paid in Italy, so YOU are actually undergoing th T&C in Italy.
Its so lucrative to start the old song that guys on good T&C should be happy about what they got, and give other guys a chance to fly the new shining toys like the B777, ERJ 140, ERJ 170 , A319
You guys are right to fight for your rights, but never stand for all your collegues at CityLine, Contact, etc or the ones who failed the DLR at the age of 23 to get second chance.
Ask the AZ guys how it feels when noone want to support you, because they never care for the others.
I wish you guys good luck and you always have my support when you fight for your rights, but maybe one day you should also start to support the other guys around you.
Join Date: Apr 2006
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@ speed alive
NO, get real buddy and stop smoking that stuff...
@ EAM actually we are trying to do exactly what you want!
1. best pay for best performance. we try to prevent that a LH plane is flagged to Italy for half of the salary paid on the mainline. I can assure you that a LH mainline CPT salary is not too much below your italian salaries.
So no erosion of salaries, not here, not in italy
2. we want to have the growth inhouse! There has been a constant reduction of medium range fleet. The only new planes came on longhaul. That means no new captain positions for the young guys. Our demand is to grow on hometurf. The new ERJ shall be flown under Mainline T&C. Instead of creating a company in Italy or even worse, buy Alitalia, get new planes for LH.
and everybody who fights to get better pay and tries to prevent beancounters innovative plans gets atleast my support...
L
NO, get real buddy and stop smoking that stuff...
@ EAM actually we are trying to do exactly what you want!
1. best pay for best performance. we try to prevent that a LH plane is flagged to Italy for half of the salary paid on the mainline. I can assure you that a LH mainline CPT salary is not too much below your italian salaries.
So no erosion of salaries, not here, not in italy2. we want to have the growth inhouse! There has been a constant reduction of medium range fleet. The only new planes came on longhaul. That means no new captain positions for the young guys. Our demand is to grow on hometurf. The new ERJ shall be flown under Mainline T&C. Instead of creating a company in Italy or even worse, buy Alitalia, get new planes for LH.
and everybody who fights to get better pay and tries to prevent beancounters innovative plans gets atleast my support...
L
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EAM actually we are trying to do exactly what you want!
If it says Lufthansa on your A/C it should say Lufthansa on your paycheck.
About the salaries, well a friend of mine is F/O on the 744 and about 8 years in the company, he makes about 4-4300€ a month. In the company that I work for a F/O makes about 4500€ on the A320, after 8 years he is Cpt or makes well over 5000€. A Cpt makes min 7000€ up to well over 9000€ net, so thats well over what LH pays and I am not working for the flagg carrier, our contract is average in Italy and even if yours is just a bit below, doenst matter, your undergoing our payscheme, even if its only a bit.
As you say, just to pay a bit less, just to get a job. We have to stop this right in the beginning.
As for the rest you are right, if there is no growth within LH, of course you cant accept to have the growth outside. But also buying SN, AUA, BMI and maybe SAS doesnt help you with this.
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Well said EAM!!
...and dear warmkiter do you remember the Ex-Interflug Kollegen that all failed the DLR test when Interflug was integrated in DLH.They flew 310 as well........
The only sad issue is that VC (German Pilot's Union) is controlled by DLH KTV Pilots and they see their interest and not of all other pilots in Germany.
What about Condor dear warmkiter? and what about the 70 seater rule for KTV ? or is this clause only used when the Aircraft is interesting like A320 737 A340
...and dear warmkiter do you remember the Ex-Interflug Kollegen that all failed the DLR test when Interflug was integrated in DLH.They flew 310 as well........
The only sad issue is that VC (German Pilot's Union) is controlled by DLH KTV Pilots and they see their interest and not of all other pilots in Germany.
What about Condor dear warmkiter? and what about the 70 seater rule for KTV ? or is this clause only used when the Aircraft is interesting like A320 737 A340
Join Date: Apr 2006
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hush hush sputnik80, go back to pilots.de where all the guys who failed the entry test for DLH are whining togehter.
but before you go, just explain me briefly why a private company should employ people after a totalitary regime has collapsed and their "airline" discontinued to exist. Interflug had their own selectionprocess for pilots and i am sure the desired profile was a little bit different than ours.
Besides, i just flew with a guy who was MIG21 pilot with the NVA, he made the test, he got employed. Basta.
Every company is free to choose its employees, the test is fair and tough. You make it or not. Whats your problem? There are enough guys who failed and got a job with a different company and are happy today. Why not you? Do you think a banker who got busted by Deutsche Bank and gets a job with HSBC keeps whining like you? think not.
Its our Company and our money we are fighting for, you are not part of the game. If you are employed in Germany, keep a close look how a united corps of employees can make a difference. There have been enough examples in past, how managers have tossed airlines around like monopoly pieces. AB, DE, LTU, DBA, GMI... Did you stand up when it was your call?
L
but before you go, just explain me briefly why a private company should employ people after a totalitary regime has collapsed and their "airline" discontinued to exist. Interflug had their own selectionprocess for pilots and i am sure the desired profile was a little bit different than ours.
Besides, i just flew with a guy who was MIG21 pilot with the NVA, he made the test, he got employed. Basta.Every company is free to choose its employees, the test is fair and tough. You make it or not. Whats your problem? There are enough guys who failed and got a job with a different company and are happy today. Why not you? Do you think a banker who got busted by Deutsche Bank and gets a job with HSBC keeps whining like you? think not.
Its our Company and our money we are fighting for, you are not part of the game. If you are employed in Germany, keep a close look how a united corps of employees can make a difference. There have been enough examples in past, how managers have tossed airlines around like monopoly pieces. AB, DE, LTU, DBA, GMI... Did you stand up when it was your call?
L
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but before you go, just explain me briefly why a private company should employ people after a totalitary regime has collapsed and their "airline" discontinued to exist.
Weil die LH erst 1997 privatisiert wurde und bis dahin staatlich war!!!!
You are right, fight for your rights, I wish you all the luck, job situation for pilots is already very bad in Germany.
If you win, well donde, but if you lose, accept it that otherones get the chance to fly your shiny A/C, as they already do (Arbeitnehmerüberlassung von HLF auf A300-600)!!
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Wow! No that everybody is tired of throwing mud at each other in a German internet forum, the whole thing appears to start all over in pprune...
The only difference that I see is there are more people watching this.
I have no problem at all with LH pilots earning massive amounts of money, probably all driving Ferraris and residing in spacious villas with a 9-hole golf course in their garden. Somebody's got to pay them that money and if they do, they must feel they're worth it. Fine.
What's absolutely sickening is when these same pilots start whining about being underpaid while having to work so hard...
Come on guys (and gals), rise your head up high and say out loud: 'I'm a LH pilot, I'm earning a lot of money and I think I deserve it...'.
Everybody has got to fight for him-/herself. At least we all learned this lesson and that solidarity and compassion are rare these days - particularly amongst us pilots.
So if you feel that the German pilots union VC is not representative for your particular needs / interests, scr.. them and found your own. That's the only way.
No question that LH management is trying to operate new aircraft as profitably as possible in finding a way around the high wages. When the next gas station promises to be a few cents cheaper, everybody keeps driving on, right?
The only difference that I see is there are more people watching this.
I have no problem at all with LH pilots earning massive amounts of money, probably all driving Ferraris and residing in spacious villas with a 9-hole golf course in their garden. Somebody's got to pay them that money and if they do, they must feel they're worth it. Fine.
What's absolutely sickening is when these same pilots start whining about being underpaid while having to work so hard...
Come on guys (and gals), rise your head up high and say out loud: 'I'm a LH pilot, I'm earning a lot of money and I think I deserve it...'.
Everybody has got to fight for him-/herself. At least we all learned this lesson and that solidarity and compassion are rare these days - particularly amongst us pilots.
So if you feel that the German pilots union VC is not representative for your particular needs / interests, scr.. them and found your own. That's the only way.
No question that LH management is trying to operate new aircraft as profitably as possible in finding a way around the high wages. When the next gas station promises to be a few cents cheaper, everybody keeps driving on, right?
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VC is currently in a desperate situation with few people threatening the existence of the whole union.
So its quite easy for Mr.M and his team to play ball with every LH company,especially LH mainline and LH CityLine at the moment.
If we all don`t get our sh... together and stand united,VC will be history pretty soon.
So its quite easy for Mr.M and his team to play ball with every LH company,especially LH mainline and LH CityLine at the moment.
If we all don`t get our sh... together and stand united,VC will be history pretty soon.
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VC will be history pretty soon.
No one will really miss them. (except: see above)
My 2 cents.
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@EAM
I guess that is why hetfield said
and not
'FL 380 has obviously some brain damage'.
So his post makes perfect sense.
And now back to the original topic...
FL 380 has obviously some brain damaging effects.
'FL 380 has obviously some brain damage'.
So his post makes perfect sense.
And now back to the original topic...
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EAM
1997 35,68 % was owned by German State the rest was private. DLH was not owned by the State!
verstaatlicht is word wich means state taking over private property. Hope this never happens again...
its a long time ago, people like Sputnik80 were teenies when the Wall fell, and some of you still dont get over it.
you can keep but it doesnt make a difference.
cheers
L
1997 35,68 % was owned by German State the rest was private. DLH was not owned by the State!
verstaatlicht is word wich means state taking over private property. Hope this never happens again...
its a long time ago, people like Sputnik80 were teenies when the Wall fell, and some of you still dont get over it.
you can keep
but it doesnt make a difference. cheers
L
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1997 35,68 % was owned by German State the rest was private. DLH was not owned by the State!
Anyway, keep it easy, no one whats to hurt you.
In some way you are right, increasing salary of the flagg carrier should also improve the conditions of the private airlines, unfortunatly reality is different, because you guys keep many pilots out of the "LH Konzern" a lot of pilots are happy to fly for AB, Bluewings, Germania, etc even if they pay a lot less.
Even Condor now jumps on this and offers contracts much much lower than what should be paid.....and why??? Because once failed the DLR at the age of 23, LH, LH Cargo, Cityline, Germanwigs and even AUA is closed, so not much left. So you see, it doesnt realy work as you might think.
As I say, you have every right to protect your rights and we have to accept it, but if LH finds a way to get this a/c out of the KTV than you just have to accept it.
I understand your situation and you should fight for your rights, but you should also understand, that there are many pilots out there who are looking for a job and are happy if there are a few new opportunities, specialy in a new airline owned by LH.
You are not alone on this world, there are ohters too.
