Lufthansa Italia?

[wonderbusdriver]

To answer the original question.

- LH Italia will fly on the Lufthansa AOC initially as they apply for an Italian AOC which will most likley take a while

- Will be flown by DLH Pilots initially (at least thatīs what the chiefpilot reiterated two days ago at the captainsīmeeting) - because 2009 will see downsizing at DLH mainline and result in a surplus of several hundered pilots.
This has several effects:
- It quiets the mainline folks, at least for a while.
- No need to train the pilots to "Lufthansa Standards"
- No need to pay the surplus pilots for not flying
- Takes their focus off the scope clause issue (EMB 195) and some new "arguments" into mgmts hands

Seems like a "win-win" situation within DLH mainline currently, whereas Iīm sure that as soon as the airline is established in MXP (by motivated DLH mainliners), the AOC is Italian and the pilotsīsurplus is resolved, "fresh" folks on DLH Italia contracts without mainline T&Cs will be employed.

Chief pilot also stated that the future of DLH Italia also very much depends on the development of Alitalia.

To the other German pilots boring the rest of the profession with their embarrassing rantings:
Please go back to the German forum already mentioned or even better - get a life and start to move on.

Cheers

[Denti]

Interesting that DLH pilots get this info only this week, it was told to colleagues from all other german airlines allready a week ago by Mr. Lauer, i'm sure you know him at least by name.

[wonderbusdriver]

Dear Dent
("i" left out intentionally - just couldnīt resist),

maybe it escaped you that the verb "reiterate" was used in the aforementioned post and context.
Or maybe you just donīt know the meaning of the verb at all.

I was trying to get some information across to the person that started this thread and used the very recent statement by the chief pilot to emphasise the info.
Nothing more, nothing less.

What you on the other hand were trying to convey, I still do not understand.

Nuff said!
Have a nice Sunday everyone.

[EAM]

Well said busdriver ( I left out the wonder intentionally).
You are a real Lufthansa Pilot. Gods gift to aviation. No doubt.

[warmkiter]

Bon pomeriggio

Lufthansa Italia could be a great opportunity for german aviation.

Nowhere else in this world have i seen a society consumed with envy to such an extent, exept germany. Any improvement or gain for other persons is seen as unjustified or somehow wrong.

When i first came to Germany years ago, people were making jokes about germans moving at night, so the neighbours dont envy them because of better furniture. Today i believe this was not ment as a joke.

As in every group of humans, also a company employing about 4500 pilots has its fare share of A$$hole$.

But its a little bit like flying floatplanes. There are pilots who have flipped a plane over and there are pilots who will flip a plane over some day. In Germany you have got pilots who have tried to get employed by DLH and pilots who did not get employed by DLH.

The second group will get employed someday somewhere if they keep trying, but for the rest of their career, they carry a stigma in their soul. " Not DLR Qualified" Some get over fast, some never. As a result of this any argument of a DLH pilot is immediately arrogant, egoistic, elitist or somehow wrong.it must be wrong, just by guts feeling these guys have it too good and therefore dont have the right to argue.

It would be great if our Italian collagues would teach some dolce vita con rilassato as intercultural exchange.

besides the food is better...

Ciao ragazzi

L

[hetfield]

Back to topic, though I agree with warmkiter's post....

My 2 cents are that the whole project will not work.

Why?

Yes, the Italian Passengers like Lufthansa, BUT there are many forces who will block the project up to the subject of sabotage 'cause it will take money out of the Italian Market.

Think about it.....

[EAM]

warmkiter, its simple as that, who is in LH uses always the same phrase "you have to get over it one day" and who failed usualy says "if I see the arrogance of LH pilots I dont want to be one of them" even people like busdriver gives the impression that this is right for a lot of the LH pilots, I have a few friends in there where I can see that we are all in the same boat.
I made my carrere elsewhere and I am very happy with it and I learned the dolce vita and I still like it and the food and.....the girls


So on the topic:
I think that it will work, the "New Alitalia" project has about the worse start one can imagine, plus they are leaving MXP to LH. From Jan. there will be almost no more flights from MXP. So as I see it, the 6 a/c from feb. are just the beginning, I wouldnt be surprised if we see long haul flights from Lufthansa Italia (or what ever) from MXP within 1-2 years.

A few days ago a ital. TV channel asked passengers who they would prefer as partner of the "New Alitalia" about 80% wanted LH instead of AF. Everytime I go home, the flights are full of italians, because LH has a good reputation in Italy and a lot of people travel with LH.

It is a good step by LH to put MXP as a 3th hub, we will see at the end in which way they will be able to do it.

[AFD]

will be on the LH AOC, rotating crews.

I donīt want to destroy all your dreams, but the Air Dolomiti "possibility" is dead, the reason being, that the A319 is to big to be flown by non-LH pilots, according to our contract

a friend of mine has received an email from lhi stating that recruitment for italian pilots and flight attendant would start during 2009

[Dries v.d. Tillaard]

No worries dear DLH-colleagues,

How's this for a management fantasy :

"Hey listen ; how about if we set up an airline in Northern Italy , in our own standardised , punctual and reliable Lufthansa way and then once the system is running.....we'll leave it to welll erm , the...erm......Italians.....?"

Mayrhuber will be very very sorry.

[AFD]

Mayrhuber will be very very sorry.

about what?

LHI will be an ITALIAN airline as soon as they have the ITALIAN AOC

LHI airplane will have ITALIAN registration mark,the airplanes will be ITALIAN

[EAM]

But the company will still be owened by GERMANS and the standarts will still be set by GERMANS and the money still comes from the GERMANS.
And the A319 is not ITALIAN, its GERMAN, because its build in Hamburg

As soon as they have an italian AOC they will start to hire non LH pilots, that doesnt mean they will hire italians

[AFD]

But the company will still be owened by GERMANS

Also Air Dolomiti is owned 100% by lufthansa,but pilots in air dolomiti are italians and non-lufthansa

i tell you why the agreement between LH and german pilots union isn't valid for airdolomiti
because en is an ITALIAN airline,owned by lh but non a german airline

if you read the email lufthansa italia has sended to pilots you would probably change your so firm opinion....
i'm sorry you cannot read out that,and i'm so sorry you couldn't know that is written in italian language

[1033]

Not just German or Italian crews it would seem.

bmi are WET leasing 2 aircraft to LHi. As far as I am aware, these will be operating the LHR - MXP and LHR - TXL. These will also be code shared flights.

[Iver]

I don't have an interest in this job but I know that if I were an Italian citizen and I was flying on Lufthansa Italia as a passenger I would be upset if Italians were not given the option to fly those airplanes. It is understandable if it is Lufthansa vs. Lufthansa Italia - but that is just my opinion.

What is happening with the Air Dolomiti E190s? Will Air Dolomiti still operate 5+ E190s out of MXP or will the Lufthansa pilots claim those as well? Any update?

[EAM]

@AFD you are misunderstanding, I said the company is OWNED by germans, I didnt realy talk about the pilots and it is exactly as you say, EN is OWNED by LH and the pilots are italian, because EN was there before, it just got bought by LH

@oppure, so the italian passangers give the money for the start up??? Are you sure or what do you think were the money comes from in the first year and to by the a/c and to set up the routs etc, etc? The money comes from LH and They invest to make money in italy, because AZ is not able to do so!
I dont think they make a lot of profit in the first 6-10 month

@AFD apparte di questo, io parlo italiano e anche tedesco

[Charly]

Dear Italian Collegues,

I am sure Lufthansa Italia would find highly motivated, highly trained and very good pilots for the cockpits with LHI in Italy.

But please understand: We (most pilots of Lufthansa) are VERY concerned about the developments in our company and the style, with which the management is solving the tasks of the future not with us, but against us.

Growth is happening everywhere around Lufthansa (Aerologic, Air Dolomity, LH Regional and LH Italy) but not within our company. LH mainline is shrinking, and Condor (formerly a Lufthansa owned tourist carrier operated by LH pilots) is not part of our career scheme anymore.
And more, the company is putting a lot of pressure on us with taking our collegues at Cityline "hostage" and trying to force us to accept the operation of the new EMB with reduced sallary packages to save their jobs.
We are talking about nearly 2.000 highly payed jobs in the cockpits in Germany at stake.

So please respect the fact, that most LH-pilots will try their best, to save their jobs and future perspectives, and cannot support the idea of a new 100% LH Airline in LH colours not operating with their personell.

Best Regards

Charly

[AFD]

So please respect the fact, that most LH-pilots will try their best, to save their jobs and future perspectives, and cannot support the idea of a new 100% LH Airline in LH colours not operating with their personell.

There's already an airline fully owned by lh,is air dolomiti and his planes are flown by italian pilots at the moment

it's right that you defend your jobs,but you should understand that we want to defend our country,and the job developed in our country should be produced with a positive contribute of italian workers

[EAM]

EN is a different thing, because its less 100 seats a/c ( or whatever is written in the contract), you should inform yourself AFD.
Even I would maybe get a job on this, I absolutly understand the LH pilots and support their action. It is absolutly wrong if guys from the LH school are swimming in the pool, while people from outside are getting hired on the A320.

Appart from the fact that the LH jobs are not highly paid as Charly says. Most italian airlines pay more than LH.

[Charly]

Appart from the fact that the LH jobs are not highly paid as Charly says. Most italian airlines pay more than LH.

Might be, EAM. But I am talking about conditions in Germany, LH and Lufthansa Italy. IF LHI is paying more to it's going-to-be italian pilots than the german scheme: Perfect! Another well paid pilotgroup in Europe (should be our main goal as global thinking pilots anyhow, shouldn't it?).
But i am afraid this is not going to happen in this case. Lufthansa is perfectly aware of the italian job situation and will draw maximum benefit out of it..

@Iver: response to PM on the way the next days

@oppure: thanks for understanding

[EAM]

Charly, I am completly with you, the main reason why italian pilots get more money than LH is because we pay less tax in italy.

I still hope that there will be a chance to join LHITA late this year, but of course you have all my support to protect your job and right.

At the end LH makes money with YOUR name and standart.

Viel Glück dabei.