Lufthansa Italia?
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@ EAM
Well, to clarify things:
The contract states that it is applicable to all operations
- under the Lufthansa brand and
- with 70 seats or more and
- by companies that LH owns the majority of
Air Dolomiti is 100% owned by LH, BAe146 have more than 70 seats, but they operate as "Air Dolomiti" and have their own livery. This is OK by the contract.
LH Cityline is 100% owned by LH, operate as LH, but less than 70 seats (There was an amendment to the contracts in 1994 for the Avro and another in 2006 for the CRJ 900). This is also OK.
Eurowings operate as LH, have more than 70 seats in the BAe146 and the soon to be delivered CRJ 900, but LH stake is just under 50% (guess why). This is also OK.
Other operations are limited to 6% of the total seat kilometers offered.
So please be a little more careful, EAM, when you call on others to inform themselves, and follow up with more than only wild speculation that proves you only seem to have a vague idea about the topic yourself.
@AFD
You do not need to defend your country, it is not under attack. However, do you really want to go back to protectionism?
The EU has created a single market. I can buy a Fiat in Germany that German workers had little chance to contribute to. Italian pilots can apply to LH and will be employed it they meet the requirements (and can even sue if the single reason are not employed is that they are Italian).
As pilots, we are the main beneficiaries of the single marked that creates a lot of need for transportation!
EN is a different thing, because its less 100 seats a/c ( or whatever is written in the contract), you should inform yourself AFD.
The contract states that it is applicable to all operations
- under the Lufthansa brand and
- with 70 seats or more and
- by companies that LH owns the majority of
Air Dolomiti is 100% owned by LH, BAe146 have more than 70 seats, but they operate as "Air Dolomiti" and have their own livery. This is OK by the contract.
LH Cityline is 100% owned by LH, operate as LH, but less than 70 seats (There was an amendment to the contracts in 1994 for the Avro and another in 2006 for the CRJ 900). This is also OK.
Eurowings operate as LH, have more than 70 seats in the BAe146 and the soon to be delivered CRJ 900, but LH stake is just under 50% (guess why). This is also OK.
Other operations are limited to 6% of the total seat kilometers offered.
So please be a little more careful, EAM, when you call on others to inform themselves, and follow up with more than only wild speculation that proves you only seem to have a vague idea about the topic yourself.
@AFD
it's right that you defend your jobs,but you should understand that we want to defend our country,and the job developed in our country should be produced with a positive contribute of italian workers
The EU has created a single market. I can buy a Fiat in Germany that German workers had little chance to contribute to. Italian pilots can apply to LH and will be employed it they meet the requirements (and can even sue if the single reason are not employed is that they are Italian).
As pilots, we are the main beneficiaries of the single marked that creates a lot of need for transportation!
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Reimers, it was just a brief information regarding about what AFD wrote,who things that LHITA and EN are the same case.
I know that there is a difference if flying with LH colours or other colours, like SWISS is doing. But I wasnt sure about the number of seats, as I said. But you made it quite clear.
And oppure is absolutly right, that you need to know german to enter in LH, more over you need to pay some money to have your school degrees accepted by an official office in Berlin.
Same applies for some other german airlines, so its is far easier and more up to date to join an italian airline, who are regarding to international pilots are well ahead of the german airlines.
I know that there is a difference if flying with LH colours or other colours, like SWISS is doing. But I wasnt sure about the number of seats, as I said. But you made it quite clear.
And oppure is absolutly right, that you need to know german to enter in LH, more over you need to pay some money to have your school degrees accepted by an official office in Berlin.
Same applies for some other german airlines, so its is far easier and more up to date to join an italian airline, who are regarding to international pilots are well ahead of the german airlines.
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Yes, a good command of German is required to join LH. This creates a hurdle for a lot of people from abroad, just the same as in most nations, the exception being english speaking countries that are easier to get into as everyone has to speak english in the first place.
Please note that LH can hire anyone they like to fly their planes, the contract only states the terms and conditions that are applicable. If LH creates a requirement that Milano-based pilots need to speak italian few LH pilots will get to fly from there, and MXP-BCN is not a traditional LH route. We just fear that slowly all routes from Germany to Italy will be flown by LH Italy if they pay less. For instance, Air Dolomiti have flown MUC-NUE and MUC-STR in the past, with none of the crew speaking any German on these services within Germany.
jstflyin
In the past, LH Cargo, Condor Berlin, Germanwings and the new Condor that was created to fly the 757/767 in the early 90ies were merged into the contract. Also, deals were done to enable Cityline to operate the Avros and the CRJ 900. There were talks about including Cityline last summer, but they failed. LH seems to fear the larger groups because of their power, and prefers to have seperate alternatives with similar operations (Augsburg Airways, Contactair, Eurowings).
Please note that LH can hire anyone they like to fly their planes, the contract only states the terms and conditions that are applicable. If LH creates a requirement that Milano-based pilots need to speak italian few LH pilots will get to fly from there, and MXP-BCN is not a traditional LH route. We just fear that slowly all routes from Germany to Italy will be flown by LH Italy if they pay less. For instance, Air Dolomiti have flown MUC-NUE and MUC-STR in the past, with none of the crew speaking any German on these services within Germany.
jstflyin
I can understand the LH guys on this one.. then again why not take your "smaller" brothers into your boat and be a larger, more efficient group for negotiations?
Last edited by Reimers; 25th Feb 2009 at 07:56.
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Just tell me please, would it be possible a non Italianspeaking pilot got a job say for instance at Alitalia?
Do we not hear Italian as most spoken language in Italien airspace?
By the way: All LH-Cockpit and LH-Cabincrew at LHI do speak Italian.
Do we not hear Italian as most spoken language in Italien airspace?By the way: All LH-Cockpit and LH-Cabincrew at LHI do speak Italian.
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Lufthansa cargo
Lufthansa germann pilots are already flying in italy from mxp to jfk and ord .........sooo , some italian pilot seat is already taken .
All this new airline coming to mxp are really welcome , but if there is not chance to get jobs for us (italian ) is a big problem
All this new airline coming to mxp are really welcome , but if there is not chance to get jobs for us (italian ) is a big problem
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@m.s.r.l.p Only because LH Crago flies out of MXP to ORD doesnt mean that these are "italian jobs", CRG flew MUC-DXB, but we didnt say that these are "german jobs" and as Reimers already mentioned, EN is flying within germany and also between germany and austria, so italian pilots are already doing the german job.
@dutch flyer I think in the last 5-8 years not many pilots have been hired by Alitalia, so its a bit difficult to compare this, but there are non italian speaking pilots in AZ, anyway, that doesnt mean that they dont learn the language in the years that they are flying in italy.
For the rest, well all other airlines are full of non italian pilots, a lot of them didnt speak italian when they came to italy, most, like me, learned the language and some are just too ignorant, but almost all of us enjoy flying here.
If new, companies are coming to italy and to MXP, very well.
Everyone is welcome. If it is like in LH now, that it will be operated by LH crews only, well never mind, but if the company sets up a new company with new crews, very well, italy is a damn good place to work and live.
And let me add this, in italy our job as a much better reputation than in germany and other countries and its not only about "the comandante", its also how crews of different companies threat each other.
Only in italy and spain you come over to the a/c and ask for a jump.........without any ticket. Try that in germany or the UK.
@dutch flyer I think in the last 5-8 years not many pilots have been hired by Alitalia, so its a bit difficult to compare this, but there are non italian speaking pilots in AZ, anyway, that doesnt mean that they dont learn the language in the years that they are flying in italy.
For the rest, well all other airlines are full of non italian pilots, a lot of them didnt speak italian when they came to italy, most, like me, learned the language and some are just too ignorant, but almost all of us enjoy flying here.
If new, companies are coming to italy and to MXP, very well.
Everyone is welcome. If it is like in LH now, that it will be operated by LH crews only, well never mind, but if the company sets up a new company with new crews, very well, italy is a damn good place to work and live.
And let me add this, in italy our job as a much better reputation than in germany and other countries and its not only about "the comandante", its also how crews of different companies threat each other.
Only in italy and spain you come over to the a/c and ask for a jump.........without any ticket. Try that in germany or the UK.
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Why do you waste so much time talking when i've already told you that lhi is sending to the applying pilots an email stating they'll start to screen and hire italian pilots during 2009?
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Why do you waste so much time talking when i've already told you that lhi is sending to the applying pilots an email stating they'll start to screen and hire italian pilots during 2009?
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i've been misunderstood or more probably i've explained not well what i meant ho say
I wanted to say that maybe is not so useful to continue saying that only lh pilot will fly lhi planes when lh has already stated that this is not true,infact they have sent an email advising they will screen and hire italian pilots this year
I wanted to say that maybe is not so useful to continue saying that only lh pilot will fly lhi planes when lh has already stated that this is not true,infact they have sent an email advising they will screen and hire italian pilots this year
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I absolutly agree with Reimers, we just enjoy communicating, that is one reason why this form is so popular. In addition, the email by LHITA is actualy worth nothing, I have alredy been selected by EN to start on the A320 in feb. when the whole project with EN has been stopped.
So only belive it when you sit in the a/c and request start up to BCN.
So only belive it when you sit in the a/c and request start up to BCN.
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Forget the language..... under the Lufthansa banner all pilots will have to have passed the DLR test in Hamburg - right? which is nothing less than a lottery. Im referring solely to the 9 clock test - give it a go at 1.3sec exposure with 4 numbers missing at 'skytest de' - to pass you need roughly 3 of 4 answers correct each time. Failing the test is a fail for life. And dont invest in these rip off training companies - the cd is all you need to practise the test from skytest. Many experienced airline pilots and captains have failed it. Indeed, my money would also be on most of Lufthansa pilots failing if they were to do a random retake - tests like the clock test are nothing but luck - you either perform at the right moment or you dont
Good luck
Good luck
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You are a bit wrong on this, because pilots will not be hired in LH, they would be hired in LHITA and there should be a test just for LHITA. We will see, but there should be something different.
Anyway, I passed the DLR test, some hundred years ago
Anyway, I passed the DLR test, some hundred years ago
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Ok, I see your point.... but if the LH conglomerate expands much more and DLR remains a requirement, (like it does with Augsburg, CityLine....and many others), may the peace be with us all who have not passed DLR. I admit, it's a great way of controlling pilot surplus bt it would be nice to do these silly tests prior to spending 1000s of euros on flying training. (I admit to being a little bitter about DLR so I apologise in advance.....)
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I guess there will be a kind of DLR also for LHITA, but as for Augsburg and Contact, this test will be different from the LH one.
But if you see what BA, CX, CV or EK are doing, same ****, just different tests.
But if you see what BA, CX, CV or EK are doing, same ****, just different tests.
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We (EN) already had crew trained for the A319. We hired the ground staff for the base in MXP. Than LH decided that our pilots haven't LH standards. So they asked to EN just the cabin crew (several awards winners). Our CEO replay: no thanks.
fortunatelly we didn't have the same standards that LH has....
fortunatelly we didn't have the same standards that LH has....
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@EAM
EN is not involved in The email i'm talking about,this email has been received from a lh italian personnel direction office account
The email says nothing about EN while instead it refers to scala project and and lh willing to self-produce the whole screening and hiring process by a lh italia own personnel department
EN is not involved in The email i'm talking about,this email has been received from a lh italian personnel direction office account
The email says nothing about EN while instead it refers to scala project and and lh willing to self-produce the whole screening and hiring process by a lh italia own personnel department
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Ok AFD so lets start a little from the beginning.
The MXP scala project started about 2 years ago, it was planned to operated EMB 170 (I think) out of MXP by EN.
Last year they changed the a/c from EMB to A319, still in LH colours, still operated by EN. In september EN selected pilots for the A319 base MXP and trained some of their pilots to the A319, some already took houses near MXP, when somewhere in October the whole thing was stopped.
A/C are operated by LH crews now.
Now LH wants to create a company called LH Italia with an italian AOC to operate this flights and they want to hire their own pilots (italian, german, EU what ever), so far is correct, BUT the whole thing still means, a/c with more than 70 seats in LH colours on LH routes operated by non LH pilots, which as we know is not according to the LH contract.
So nothing so far has changed from the EN project to the LHITA project.
It has been stopped once, it could be stopped a 2. time.
The MXP scala project started about 2 years ago, it was planned to operated EMB 170 (I think) out of MXP by EN.
Last year they changed the a/c from EMB to A319, still in LH colours, still operated by EN. In september EN selected pilots for the A319 base MXP and trained some of their pilots to the A319, some already took houses near MXP, when somewhere in October the whole thing was stopped.
A/C are operated by LH crews now.
Now LH wants to create a company called LH Italia with an italian AOC to operate this flights and they want to hire their own pilots (italian, german, EU what ever), so far is correct, BUT the whole thing still means, a/c with more than 70 seats in LH colours on LH routes operated by non LH pilots, which as we know is not according to the LH contract.
So nothing so far has changed from the EN project to the LHITA project.
It has been stopped once, it could be stopped a 2. time.
