Forced unpaid leave at ryanair
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Hehe.. sounds like a prime candidate for an upgrade to me, by the time he gets his chance the offer will be pay your own command course, no sector pay for 12 months and a 30% reduction in basic 
Lube up and push the go-button
Lube up and push the go-button
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jiffajaffa, its that attitude that is dragging this profession down. dont accept threats like this, know your rights. 2 billion in the bank. you shouldnt be made to pay. I feel for your colleagues who have fought for your terms and conditions and protection...............
wake up.
wake up.
Last edited by atr209; 22nd Sep 2008 at 22:56.
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After a good night's sleep I read that post again and I'm thinking we the more senior guys in Fr are failing big time if these wow look an airplane kids are presenting us with this attitude..and believe me this guy is not the only one. Time to wake up
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Wow! How low can you go? I used to be proud of the career I have choosen, proud to have the responsibility for the lives of others and the capital of my company in my charge, proud of keeping up the standards that my predecessors had set.
Now, well, this is a race "into the sewer", as someone else has posted.
This thread should be posted in the wannabe's forum so that every kid who thought that being a professional pilot was, as it ought to be, a respected, responsible, stable and satisfying career where you have responsibility for the lives of others and millions of dollars worth of investment can see the truth - which is that even the Bus drivers at the depot get better treatment than this.
So RYR are saying that you take unpaid leave and therefore are:
a) unable to draw unemployment benefit
b) still on contract so contractually barred from accepting alternative employment
c) losing recency and experience viz. others all the time you accept it
d) more likely to be replaced by contractors on non-renewable contracts
This makes you an indentured slave!
Who can afford do this? Why would they?
Better still, wannabes take note, even when you come back, your base can be changed at RYR whim at any time. Try telling your spouse that, and the kids.
Madness. RYR have dragged this industry to the depths. They force every one else to follow them down.
I am glad I am where I am in my career because I would never go into this now, and if you are smart enough to pass all the CAA exams, self-motivated and self-disciplined enough to pass the flying tests and driven enough to earn the money to pay RYR to train you to make them money then you are surely smart enough to get a career that has a shred of a chance of being more rewarding financially, more stable socially and for your family, and more secure.
Unbelievable.
Now, well, this is a race "into the sewer", as someone else has posted.
This thread should be posted in the wannabe's forum so that every kid who thought that being a professional pilot was, as it ought to be, a respected, responsible, stable and satisfying career where you have responsibility for the lives of others and millions of dollars worth of investment can see the truth - which is that even the Bus drivers at the depot get better treatment than this.
So RYR are saying that you take unpaid leave and therefore are:
a) unable to draw unemployment benefit
b) still on contract so contractually barred from accepting alternative employment
c) losing recency and experience viz. others all the time you accept it
d) more likely to be replaced by contractors on non-renewable contracts
This makes you an indentured slave!
Who can afford do this? Why would they?
Better still, wannabes take note, even when you come back, your base can be changed at RYR whim at any time. Try telling your spouse that, and the kids.
Madness. RYR have dragged this industry to the depths. They force every one else to follow them down.
I am glad I am where I am in my career because I would never go into this now, and if you are smart enough to pass all the CAA exams, self-motivated and self-disciplined enough to pass the flying tests and driven enough to earn the money to pay RYR to train you to make them money then you are surely smart enough to get a career that has a shred of a chance of being more rewarding financially, more stable socially and for your family, and more secure.
Unbelievable.
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I think the brookfield guys can draw the dole as the contract states 11 months of work only.small conselation obviously but ill fight it and make sure i at least get money for playing golf everyday
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Having commitments the thought of another months unpaid leave scares me!
Are there any other f/o's out there getting extra days leave right now? So far this month I've had an extra 6 days which I didn't ask for or want.
I've averaged 70 hours per month since April so I'm not too high on hours.
Any others getting this?
kempus
Are there any other f/o's out there getting extra days leave right now? So far this month I've had an extra 6 days which I didn't ask for or want.
I've averaged 70 hours per month since April so I'm not too high on hours.
Any others getting this?
kempus
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Jiffajaffa, go immediately and talk to BALPA or IALPA, if you stay in aviation your post and the sentiment it contained will haunt you. You must educate yourself. You owe it to yourself after the money I assume you have spent. Your lack of worldly knowledge is being taken advantage of and thats OK, if you learn from the experience. Your colleagues have expressed some robust views on your post, you may dismiss them all as malcontents if you wish but consider the level of experience they have brought to this discussion. You might think me patronizing, but we have all been where you are now and I wish only to hasten your awakening to the rest of your life.
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I dont think jiffajaffa can be to blame for that attitude. Unfortunatley all the people criticising him are pilots who entered the industry years ago, long before the days of having to pay for typeratings and even your own line training. BLAME the SYSTEM or even the AIRLINES and recruiters for this situation with new wannabes.
Most wannabes have to get into ~£100K of debt to get a job nowadays. And for most people finishing with their fATPLS cant even get any jobs now, so quite rightly he/she feels happy JUST TO HAVE A JOB!
So to all those fat cat pilots having a dig at jiffajaffa, its partly your fault we are in this mess by allowing T&Cs to be slowly degraded, not doing your bit with the unions and the cost of airline pilot training to be as high as it is.
It Pi$$es me off seeing some airline leaders who had their pilot training all paid for free and job handed on a plate, sitting back now and watching all the wannabes getting in massive debt for jobs which dont exist.... rant over.
Most wannabes have to get into ~£100K of debt to get a job nowadays. And for most people finishing with their fATPLS cant even get any jobs now, so quite rightly he/she feels happy JUST TO HAVE A JOB!
So to all those fat cat pilots having a dig at jiffajaffa, its partly your fault we are in this mess by allowing T&Cs to be slowly degraded, not doing your bit with the unions and the cost of airline pilot training to be as high as it is.
It Pi$$es me off seeing some airline leaders who had their pilot training all paid for free and job handed on a plate, sitting back now and watching all the wannabes getting in massive debt for jobs which dont exist.... rant over.
Unfortunatley all the people criticising him are pilots who entered the industry years ago, long before the days of having to pay for typeratings
I paid for my training, and my type rating.
But I still think it's a disgrace for an employee to shout that it's absolutely fine to have salaries stopped for months, at the whim of the employer.
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Hundredpercentplease; Ok so not everyone is in that situation. But the majority are, and im not just talking about ryanair. Just about every operator is now.
Reading their post, i dont think they are shouting about its ok to stop salaries for months. Theyre just making the point that its better to have a job, where you might atleast do some flying, than have nothing (like most wannabes today)..
But I still think it's a disgrace for an employee to shout that it's absolutely fine to have salaries stopped for months, at the whim of the employer.
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I dont think jiffajaffa can be to blame for that attitude. Unfortunatley all the people criticising him are pilots who entered the industry years ago, long before the days of having to pay for typeratings and even your own line training. BLAME the SYSTEM or even the AIRLINES and recruiters for this situation with new wannabes.
Most wannabes have to get into ~£100K of debt to get a job nowadays. And for most people finishing with their fATPLS cant even get any jobs now, so quite rightly he/she feels happy JUST TO HAVE A JOB!
So to all those fat cat pilots having a dig at jiffajaffa, its partly your fault we are in this mess by allowing T&Cs to be slowly degraded, not doing your bit with the unions and the cost of airline pilot training to be as high as it is.
It Pi$$es me off seeing some airline leaders who had their pilot training all paid for free and job handed on a plate, sitting back now and watching all the wannabes getting in massive debt for jobs which dont exist.... rant over.
Most wannabes have to get into ~£100K of debt to get a job nowadays. And for most people finishing with their fATPLS cant even get any jobs now, so quite rightly he/she feels happy JUST TO HAVE A JOB!
So to all those fat cat pilots having a dig at jiffajaffa, its partly your fault we are in this mess by allowing T&Cs to be slowly degraded, not doing your bit with the unions and the cost of airline pilot training to be as high as it is.
It Pi$$es me off seeing some airline leaders who had their pilot training all paid for free and job handed on a plate, sitting back now and watching all the wannabes getting in massive debt for jobs which dont exist.... rant over.
Whatever you choose just realize that just as you are prepared to sell yourself for a job, so will there be thousands behind you willing to do the same as you sit snug and happy on the flightdeck, and that will lead to worse pay for you too eventually only this time you didn't ask for it.
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i have over 10 years experience flying in ryanair
Unpaid leave?
Anyone with any sense who is given unpaid leave is simply going to take a 3 month/ 6 month contract elsewhere.
"Can't work for anyone else" ? Get a life!!
Incidentally, I learned a long time ago that when the chips are down pilots will look after #1 and
anyone else. There is no unity: and I mean zero unity. It is everyone for themselves, regardless of whether you work for Ryanair, Globespan, VS,Easy, Monarch, Thomson, bmi or BA.Take your union and their "support" and shove it.
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Ryanair has hundreds of millions of cash in reserve. How vital to the airline is the pressure on the pilots' shoulders ? You don't HAVE to do that to keep FR healthy ! MOL is a multimillionnaire. Isn't he ashame to have to request from people to sign up for such a desperate position ??? He's putting people and families at risk and for this reason he should be taken to court.
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10 years and maybe foolishly still fighting for change.surrounded by people like slim shady and jiffajaffa.just willing to wave goodbye to their future.what a sorry pathetic bunch of so called pilots,who would let their rights be trodden on for a few quid.console yourselves in the fact that you earn a few thousand quid a month but do not call yourself a professional because you have sold that birthright long back.grow some backbone and some balls.better late than never.
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From what I can see, it's mainly FO's that are surplus to requirements and those that do have forced unpaid leave, what exactly are their options?
a) Throw the toys out of the pram and tell MOL to politely stick his job. There's not a great deal of operators hiring around the world right now.
- Jet Air have plenty of 738's but I'm led to believe they won't hire non-Indian FO's now.
- Flydubai is not a viable option right now and may have too high minimums for recent RYR new joiners.
- Closer to home, XL was a bigish 73 operator and have put a load of experienced 738 drivers on the market.
The problem is that inexperienced FO's are like pebbles on a beach and MOL knows that. 100 FO's could quit in the morning, and he knows that there will be 4 times that amount waiting to fill their position.
b) Sit tight and ride out the winter and wait for the 'Boeing strikes' (tongue firmly placed in cheek) to end and wait for the flying to pick up.
IF I was told to go home and come back in 3 months time, there is no way that I would keep my feet on terra firma. Either a 152 or 738 I need to earn a living, contract or no contract.
a) Throw the toys out of the pram and tell MOL to politely stick his job. There's not a great deal of operators hiring around the world right now.
- Jet Air have plenty of 738's but I'm led to believe they won't hire non-Indian FO's now.
- Flydubai is not a viable option right now and may have too high minimums for recent RYR new joiners.
- Closer to home, XL was a bigish 73 operator and have put a load of experienced 738 drivers on the market.
The problem is that inexperienced FO's are like pebbles on a beach and MOL knows that. 100 FO's could quit in the morning, and he knows that there will be 4 times that amount waiting to fill their position.
b) Sit tight and ride out the winter and wait for the 'Boeing strikes' (tongue firmly placed in cheek) to end and wait for the flying to pick up.
IF I was told to go home and come back in 3 months time, there is no way that I would keep my feet on terra firma. Either a 152 or 738 I need to earn a living, contract or no contract.
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In some posters opinion Ryanair are doing something completely unacceptable, so what are they prepared to do about it? Will they strike on behalf of the RYN pilots?
There's an attitude out there of "well they joined the place, they deserve whatever they get". So RYN pilots are on their own, F/O's knowing there's a queue of people willing to take their place if they step out of line. I'm not just talking about new guys straight out of flight school, I personally know 2 ex-XL guys who are trying their best to get into RYN even though in the past they held the same views as the posters I mentioned. We've been told that RYN have received masses of applications since XL, Zoom, and Futura went under and I fully believe it. If YOU were sacked with a mortgage to pay and a family to support, would you take RYN's euro if it was the only one on offer?
I used to work for a small, well thought of lowcost and still keep in touch with some of the folks there. I've heard some of the schemes management have and will be introducing, and if RYN did it there'd be outrage. The RYN required fuel policy...happened there first and with less leeway. I won't divulge the other policies as they're not public knowledge and do not affect safety, however because it's friendly little "x" airline then it's things that have to be endured if they're to survive :o0
So, hundreds of people behind them waiting to snap up their job, and the knowledge that the rest of the pilot community (rightly or wrongly) won't support them, what do you suggest the RYN pilots do? I'm expecting a lot of "they made their own beds/dug their own graves" and that's the point. I think it instils the old Millwall attitude...everyone hates us and we don't care.
Good on ya Grim, keep fighting the good fight but understand that the new guys there have a lot fewer (zero) job opportunities than yourself outside RYN.
Oh, and if there's a moderator reading do you really think that "In a word, filth. You make me sick." is acceptable, or only when people are responding to RYN posters?
There's an attitude out there of "well they joined the place, they deserve whatever they get". So RYN pilots are on their own, F/O's knowing there's a queue of people willing to take their place if they step out of line. I'm not just talking about new guys straight out of flight school, I personally know 2 ex-XL guys who are trying their best to get into RYN even though in the past they held the same views as the posters I mentioned. We've been told that RYN have received masses of applications since XL, Zoom, and Futura went under and I fully believe it. If YOU were sacked with a mortgage to pay and a family to support, would you take RYN's euro if it was the only one on offer?
I used to work for a small, well thought of lowcost and still keep in touch with some of the folks there. I've heard some of the schemes management have and will be introducing, and if RYN did it there'd be outrage. The RYN required fuel policy...happened there first and with less leeway. I won't divulge the other policies as they're not public knowledge and do not affect safety, however because it's friendly little "x" airline then it's things that have to be endured if they're to survive :o0
So, hundreds of people behind them waiting to snap up their job, and the knowledge that the rest of the pilot community (rightly or wrongly) won't support them, what do you suggest the RYN pilots do? I'm expecting a lot of "they made their own beds/dug their own graves" and that's the point. I think it instils the old Millwall attitude...everyone hates us and we don't care.
Good on ya Grim, keep fighting the good fight but understand that the new guys there have a lot fewer (zero) job opportunities than yourself outside RYN.
Oh, and if there's a moderator reading do you really think that "In a word, filth. You make me sick." is acceptable, or only when people are responding to RYN posters?
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well razor,that may well be the case.it doesn't detract from what i say being true.i do not assume everyone is an idiot,but when presented continously with evidence to support an assumption that most of ryanair pilots are idiots,then it is difficult to draw any other conclusion.good first post though!!!