RYANAIR CPT vs FOs
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In defense of our ERC they are doing exactly as the pilots asked or should I say the ones who could be bothered to turn up at the Radisson in STN a few months ago.
I attended a meeting at the Radisson a few months ago when the ERC notified the STN pilots they were holding a meeting to discuss a way forward.
The turnout at the meeting i went to in the morning had about 30 people and the afternoon I was told had even less.
This a trully appalling turnout out of about 350 pilots in STN and shows complete apathy towards these issues. I have attended most of these meetings and sadly this is not uncommon.
However those that turned gave an overwhelmimg YES to the question 'did the pilots wish the ERC to go back to the Company to see if there was a way forward before the start of 2008 pay discussions'
And as for secrecy i met one the ERC members on Friday last week to ask of ant developments and was told that they were meeting the Company the following Tuesday and there would be talks with the pilots when they had heard what the Company had to say. No cloak and dagger there.
He expained they would like to have met the Company sooner but that the management had been tied up with the opening of four bases and this was the first opportunity.
I know this guy he and the ERC are trying to get the best deal possible. It is certainly not for personal progression or gain. He has nowhere to go he is already a TRE. He, they have put up with all sorts of abuse and slander about back handers and so on. Personally I wouldnt do there job but as far as I can tell neither would anyone else.
As for BALPA, I am a member and have been for donkeys but I aint holding my breath for this lot.
Good luck to the ERC they need it with our management and sadly our appathetic pilots.
I attended a meeting at the Radisson a few months ago when the ERC notified the STN pilots they were holding a meeting to discuss a way forward.
The turnout at the meeting i went to in the morning had about 30 people and the afternoon I was told had even less.
This a trully appalling turnout out of about 350 pilots in STN and shows complete apathy towards these issues. I have attended most of these meetings and sadly this is not uncommon.
However those that turned gave an overwhelmimg YES to the question 'did the pilots wish the ERC to go back to the Company to see if there was a way forward before the start of 2008 pay discussions'
And as for secrecy i met one the ERC members on Friday last week to ask of ant developments and was told that they were meeting the Company the following Tuesday and there would be talks with the pilots when they had heard what the Company had to say. No cloak and dagger there.
He expained they would like to have met the Company sooner but that the management had been tied up with the opening of four bases and this was the first opportunity.
I know this guy he and the ERC are trying to get the best deal possible. It is certainly not for personal progression or gain. He has nowhere to go he is already a TRE. He, they have put up with all sorts of abuse and slander about back handers and so on. Personally I wouldnt do there job but as far as I can tell neither would anyone else.
As for BALPA, I am a member and have been for donkeys but I aint holding my breath for this lot.
Good luck to the ERC they need it with our management and sadly our appathetic pilots.
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Well, if Ryanair are really dragging the industry as a whole down re T&C's should BALPA not consider a one-off opt-in of ALL RYR pilots at no cost? To run for one year, time enough for some meaningful ground to be taken back from the company. All sorts of ways to look at how to handle the 'missing' subs later, but at least as a way of galvanising the whole of the sorry workforce at one time, and go ahead to achieve something.
I do believe MOL's shameful work is affecting the entire industry, and quite possibly safety standards in RYR.
Open for discussion?
I do believe MOL's shameful work is affecting the entire industry, and quite possibly safety standards in RYR.
Open for discussion?
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Bonernow,
Not seeking to get involved in this debate or attack your post.
General points of order on a certain section of it:
Thats a fairly significant statement (the next 12 months). Can you show us what medium/source was used for this? EZY's a/c deliveries are slowing down and thanks to a different ethic better provisions are leading to improved retainment. However, more 'low experience' guys will commence type rating with them again around Feb next year. This bodes well for guys with current JAR25 experience. Sources at BA state recruitment to be fairly bouyant at the moment. Additionally, BA will have to start preparing for the A380 and B787 in the near future. This will mean alot of crewing inefficiencies ie. type changes, people in sims and not on the line, overall fleet expansion but initial greater expansion as it won't be a straight forward new a/c in, old a/c out. They will want more short haul crews to help feed this overall process. Indications from MYT (one of the merger airlines) are that they will at least be considering crews for recruitment again next August. That could possibly be seen as a guide for the other merger airlines too. (I appreciate it's an ever changing industry). After that as for Virgin, Emirates.. whoever, there is always recruitment to cater for expansion, retirements and attrition (be it less than for the lo co).. You just need alot of experience, the right qualities and some contacts 
I guess I'm just trying to add a little balance to that area of your last post and say to everyone (without telling them to suck eggs) that in any event peeps from various other outfits will also look at the airlines you mention and there's alot of selection to go through. (The full monty all over again in BA's case). The message is that there will be slots available at all these airlines, it's just down as usual to networking and good work on selection.. Its not a 'numbers' or 'quantity' game (like the lo co "3-4 year until command" phrase. Roughly only 50% who get assessed for command will get it at the first time of asking), it's a 'quality' game!
The future is what we are going to make.. As for the rest of the argument im just an FR cadet at the moment looking to make it to the line, learn my trade, build experience and enjoy my fATPL flying! That's the first milestone for little old me. At that point if I'm happy my setup and feel I can develope more, i'll stay. If I think I can do better for myself elsewhere then I will move forward in that direction. They're a business and I'm a business..
All the best guys
Not seeking to get involved in this debate or attack your post.
General points of order on a certain section of it:
Easyjet have just announced that there is no more room until winter 2008
I guess I'm just trying to add a little balance to that area of your last post and say to everyone (without telling them to suck eggs) that in any event peeps from various other outfits will also look at the airlines you mention and there's alot of selection to go through. (The full monty all over again in BA's case). The message is that there will be slots available at all these airlines, it's just down as usual to networking and good work on selection.. Its not a 'numbers' or 'quantity' game (like the lo co "3-4 year until command" phrase. Roughly only 50% who get assessed for command will get it at the first time of asking), it's a 'quality' game!
The future is what we are going to make.. As for the rest of the argument im just an FR cadet at the moment looking to make it to the line, learn my trade, build experience and enjoy my fATPL flying! That's the first milestone for little old me. At that point if I'm happy my setup and feel I can develope more, i'll stay. If I think I can do better for myself elsewhere then I will move forward in that direction. They're a business and I'm a business..
All the best guys
Last edited by Diamond_Dog; 23rd Nov 2007 at 23:57.
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Diamond_Dog thats the whole point. There will be nowhere worth moving to with people like you setting the industry up for failure.
You need to look a little further ahead than just unfreezing your ATPL.
Ryanair pilots are poisoning us all.
You need to look a little further ahead than just unfreezing your ATPL.
Ryanair pilots are poisoning us all.
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Ryanair pilots are doing no such thing. Management are systematically degrading terms and conditions and Ryanair pilots (most) are doing their best to sort it out. It will get sorted out it just takes time.
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should BALPA not consider a one-off opt-in of ALL RYR pilots at no cost?
im just an FR cadet at the moment looking to make it to the line, learn my trade, build experience and enjoy my fATPL flying! That's the first milestone for little old me...........They're a business and I'm a business..
I hope you do enjoy your flying and good luck with your line training DD, and I mean that. Just be aware that you are being shafted by your employer. You are not a "business" you are an employee, and deserve to be treated with respect, consulted on any change in working practices that affect your lifestyle or pay and you should expect to have all agreements and contracts honoured by your employer.
You won't get that at Ryanair.
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Diamond Dog, you are getting it totally wrong!
Your attitude is typical of the guys who see FR as a stepping stone and think that after a year or less of crap, and 500-1000 hours, they will go to greener pastures.... This behaviour is contributing to the lowering of the FR T&C's.
Unfortunately, for a big majority of guys, it does not happen this way. "Better" companies are not recruiting that much, and once into FR, you might find that you are stuck there for a while. You will then figure out that people out there fighting for better conditions are RIGHT.
Contribute to the creation of sh*t conditions, you might one day eat your own sh*t.
Your attitude is typical of the guys who see FR as a stepping stone and think that after a year or less of crap, and 500-1000 hours, they will go to greener pastures.... This behaviour is contributing to the lowering of the FR T&C's.
Unfortunately, for a big majority of guys, it does not happen this way. "Better" companies are not recruiting that much, and once into FR, you might find that you are stuck there for a while. You will then figure out that people out there fighting for better conditions are RIGHT.
Contribute to the creation of sh*t conditions, you might one day eat your own sh*t.
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Diamond Dog,
007 is spot on with his assessment.
I know easyjet aren't recruiting until 2008 because I received an email off them telling me so! They have sufficient people to crew their current fleet and sufficient in their hold pool to start training as and when the new slots appear.
I am one of the lucky ones who got out of FR while there was still somwhere to go to. If you believe that there is loads of space elsewhere to deal with a mass exodus of FR pilots then you're frankly wrong. Just ask any current FR pilot trying to leave.
What my earlier post alluded to was that FR management will use this lack of opportunity for the FR pilots to leave en mass as a lever to further reduce the T & C's. Historically FR negotiate with their pilots early in the new year for any deal to start 1st April.
Let's see if I'm wrong when the time comes.
007 is spot on with his assessment.
I know easyjet aren't recruiting until 2008 because I received an email off them telling me so! They have sufficient people to crew their current fleet and sufficient in their hold pool to start training as and when the new slots appear.
I am one of the lucky ones who got out of FR while there was still somwhere to go to. If you believe that there is loads of space elsewhere to deal with a mass exodus of FR pilots then you're frankly wrong. Just ask any current FR pilot trying to leave.
What my earlier post alluded to was that FR management will use this lack of opportunity for the FR pilots to leave en mass as a lever to further reduce the T & C's. Historically FR negotiate with their pilots early in the new year for any deal to start 1st April.
Let's see if I'm wrong when the time comes.
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Diamond Dog, I'm really sorry to keep the negativity aimed in your direction, but....
As far as I can see there tends to be a common pattern to an FR pilots stance with regards to the company. I went through it and many of the guys I know went through similar stages on the road to understanding FR.
Let me explain. When you first join FR as a brand new shiny FO (sorry SO!), as I did, you have a lot of good feeling and support towards the company. This is natural, they gave you a job and now you can finally start paying back the monumental debt you've accumulated becoming a pilot.
For the first 3-4 months you are distracted by learning the ropes of what is a difficult and challenging job. You don't have a lot of time for getting involved in company politics. And although you hear the stories and have heard of REPA and BALPA, you put it all down to a few moaners who have nothing better to do than complain about their lot. This is normal also, there are bound to be a few moaners in any company.
Then around 4-6 months in, you realise that there may be something in this REPA stuff after all, because by now you will have experienced some of FR's tactics yourself. So you get yourself a username and password for REPA and have a look.
This is where it becomes painful. You read the posts and start to get very angry, very very angry at how your benevolent employer is treating you and what it plans to do to you in the future. You can't understand how they are managing to get away with the erosion to your T&C's and even more worried why no-one else (apart from the few on REPA) want to do anything to stop the rot.
Once this stage is over, and you've calmed down a bit, you go to the BALPA website and join. You become an active poster on REPA and vow to do something about the problem.
Now, where you go from this point is a big decision to make. Do you try and leave and get better T&C's for yourself that way? Or do you stay at FR and fight for the greater good of the industry? The choice is entirely yours.
The choice I made is the right one for me. I'm sticking around, simply because I refuse to let the bastards grind me down!
As far as I can see there tends to be a common pattern to an FR pilots stance with regards to the company. I went through it and many of the guys I know went through similar stages on the road to understanding FR.
Let me explain. When you first join FR as a brand new shiny FO (sorry SO!), as I did, you have a lot of good feeling and support towards the company. This is natural, they gave you a job and now you can finally start paying back the monumental debt you've accumulated becoming a pilot.
For the first 3-4 months you are distracted by learning the ropes of what is a difficult and challenging job. You don't have a lot of time for getting involved in company politics. And although you hear the stories and have heard of REPA and BALPA, you put it all down to a few moaners who have nothing better to do than complain about their lot. This is normal also, there are bound to be a few moaners in any company.
Then around 4-6 months in, you realise that there may be something in this REPA stuff after all, because by now you will have experienced some of FR's tactics yourself. So you get yourself a username and password for REPA and have a look.
This is where it becomes painful. You read the posts and start to get very angry, very very angry at how your benevolent employer is treating you and what it plans to do to you in the future. You can't understand how they are managing to get away with the erosion to your T&C's and even more worried why no-one else (apart from the few on REPA) want to do anything to stop the rot.
Once this stage is over, and you've calmed down a bit, you go to the BALPA website and join. You become an active poster on REPA and vow to do something about the problem.
Now, where you go from this point is a big decision to make. Do you try and leave and get better T&C's for yourself that way? Or do you stay at FR and fight for the greater good of the industry? The choice is entirely yours.
The choice I made is the right one for me. I'm sticking around, simply because I refuse to let the bastards grind me down!
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Daniel is in the lions den!
Hey guys, like i said, i'm not getting embroiled in this and all the arguments have been well milked on this website. All I can generally say to the responses is read my original post again, carefully.
I'm just repeating myself now in a different way.
All I was doing was balancing the argument that other airlines are still recruiting and people do move to other airlines. I wasn't looking to get into t's and c's, defend FR or attack FR. Flaps5Speed180, good post and I hear you loud and clear. Maybe things could evolve that way but honestly, I'm not coming from that angle. The t's and c's and my financial future is scarey to be frank. I just hope I can survive. It is terrible how pilots are treated in 'relative' comparison to other industries of a similar stature. For me personally the money isn't that bad. It's the training debt burden that offsets it! Man, I have no idea anymore why I am sat here typing way, i certainly intend to stop in a few minutes and go for a pint and catch up with the mrs!
Bonernow, 2008 is just over a month a way,
is about 12 months away.
It isn't a case of "oh there's no places, we're stuck where we are" or "oh, there's way too many pilots wanting to leave a certain airline so how will i ever be able to move on as the market is saturated." Its down to the individual to achieve it for themselves. If they want to! That's it! That's all I was saying.. Where the rest comes from I don't know.... But this is pprune afterall..
To the peeps that think 'my type' of industry entrant are single handedly responsible for destroying the industry t's and c's for everyone else, well that is one perspective on the 'who's doing this to us' crys and one that i accept. YES! I take my 'share' of responsibility!
In any event that isn't just down to 'FR', it's down to the lo co philosophy in general &.... there are many other angles too! Deregulation, which gave so many more jobs and an explosion of expansion in the aviation industry, in itself is one! Free market forces took the legacy airlines out of the driving seat and the lo co's now have a massive slice of the pie.. This is what the EU wanted and this is what the EU got. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Sorry to the old boys as well but another angle are senior captains that have their retirement money all sorted and move on from their legacy airlines to the lo co's for a happy last few years on lower pay. The lo co's get highly experienced guys at cut down prices and thus starting the cancer down from the top. After all pay is hierarchical. This isn't my argument but a perspective others have highlighted on here and one i give credence to as well. Absolutley no disrespect to the old boys (and gals) who do this. Like I said everyone does what they feel is necessary. I'm just analyising the situation and will not 'blame' any creed of pilot for decaying t's and c's.
Yet another angle are the guys who are already in the industry. Most of them want to stay out of the 'gaze' and get on with there jobs. Fair enough! But if one says that tomorrow ALL guys simultaneously stood up and said "oh.. no jack i'm not paying for my type rating, you fund me". Then yes, airlines would have to have a major rethink. But then if the guys already in there (and afterall, i'm nothing yet, you are working for the airlines, you have 'influence') simultaneously turned around and said "urm what the devil do you think you are doing charging newbies for TR's?! Stop it now and give us better t's and c's or else we will strike" Then equally if not more so, the airlines would have to have a big rethink. Am I happy plunging myself further into the red for a TR? (Please no off spin arguments of become an FI, oh you should have saved up or go ferry a seneca across the atlantic.. FI great, but in all instances i would have had to have gone bankrupt! (Yes I'm one of those!)
To someone else who said i was typical of guys who thinks i'm going to get my ATPL and walk straight into a more 'cosey' airline. Again, read what I said.. If I was then I would be reading what I said again. When did I say was ever going to leave FR?
&.. ok so I'm an 'employee' not a 'business'? Well at the moment i guess I'm neither as I won't have any chance of a contract offer until I've successfully completed my line check.. Even then I'd be likey to get a Brookfield contract, which means that I would be a business technically speaking. Be it a sole trader or a Ltd Company. But all that crap to one side. I was saying, its a dog eat dog world. I know the 'there'll be more peeps waiting to take my place' argument as well.. its just endless..
FR has 'happened' to be the only airline that has given me a shot at what i actually want to do. After months and months of networking (and i have some good contacts in other airlines), phoning, letters etc etc etc. Chat's with senior guys, some invitations to get back to certain airlines in so many months time.. First time passes in everything, 92% ATPL average blar blar and.. no other interviews.
I have no right to a job because of that. But I'm a begger! Not a chooser in this instance! I would have quite happily crawled on one knee from john o groats to lands end for one. I'm that committed! 
I am certainly not risking 2 years of absolute commitment to flying, personal sacrifices and all the money the bank has lent me (meaning certain bankrupsy) just for the sake of peeps who are already in there. The kamikaze pilots were a strange and resolute bunch but I don't have such devotion. If it was for my mum (bless her) then yeh, i'd even die, but for you.. I will do what i can from the inside.
Anyway.. If this generates aload of 'responses' then thats cool, i guess that's what this place is for. A good ineffective 'vent'. Fairplay. Well thats my vent done. Not that I'm venting at you though.
Sincerely, all the best to everybody!
Hey guys, like i said, i'm not getting embroiled in this and all the arguments have been well milked on this website. All I can generally say to the responses is read my original post again, carefully.
I'm just repeating myself now in a different way.
All I was doing was balancing the argument that other airlines are still recruiting and people do move to other airlines. I wasn't looking to get into t's and c's, defend FR or attack FR. Flaps5Speed180, good post and I hear you loud and clear. Maybe things could evolve that way but honestly, I'm not coming from that angle. The t's and c's and my financial future is scarey to be frank. I just hope I can survive. It is terrible how pilots are treated in 'relative' comparison to other industries of a similar stature. For me personally the money isn't that bad. It's the training debt burden that offsets it! Man, I have no idea anymore why I am sat here typing way, i certainly intend to stop in a few minutes and go for a pint and catch up with the mrs!
Bonernow, 2008 is just over a month a way,
winter 2008
It isn't a case of "oh there's no places, we're stuck where we are" or "oh, there's way too many pilots wanting to leave a certain airline so how will i ever be able to move on as the market is saturated." Its down to the individual to achieve it for themselves. If they want to! That's it! That's all I was saying.. Where the rest comes from I don't know.... But this is pprune afterall..
To the peeps that think 'my type' of industry entrant are single handedly responsible for destroying the industry t's and c's for everyone else, well that is one perspective on the 'who's doing this to us' crys and one that i accept. YES! I take my 'share' of responsibility!
In any event that isn't just down to 'FR', it's down to the lo co philosophy in general &.... there are many other angles too! Deregulation, which gave so many more jobs and an explosion of expansion in the aviation industry, in itself is one! Free market forces took the legacy airlines out of the driving seat and the lo co's now have a massive slice of the pie.. This is what the EU wanted and this is what the EU got. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Sorry to the old boys as well but another angle are senior captains that have their retirement money all sorted and move on from their legacy airlines to the lo co's for a happy last few years on lower pay. The lo co's get highly experienced guys at cut down prices and thus starting the cancer down from the top. After all pay is hierarchical. This isn't my argument but a perspective others have highlighted on here and one i give credence to as well. Absolutley no disrespect to the old boys (and gals) who do this. Like I said everyone does what they feel is necessary. I'm just analyising the situation and will not 'blame' any creed of pilot for decaying t's and c's.
Yet another angle are the guys who are already in the industry. Most of them want to stay out of the 'gaze' and get on with there jobs. Fair enough! But if one says that tomorrow ALL guys simultaneously stood up and said "oh.. no jack i'm not paying for my type rating, you fund me". Then yes, airlines would have to have a major rethink. But then if the guys already in there (and afterall, i'm nothing yet, you are working for the airlines, you have 'influence') simultaneously turned around and said "urm what the devil do you think you are doing charging newbies for TR's?! Stop it now and give us better t's and c's or else we will strike" Then equally if not more so, the airlines would have to have a big rethink. Am I happy plunging myself further into the red for a TR? (Please no off spin arguments of become an FI, oh you should have saved up or go ferry a seneca across the atlantic.. FI great, but in all instances i would have had to have gone bankrupt! (Yes I'm one of those!)
To someone else who said i was typical of guys who thinks i'm going to get my ATPL and walk straight into a more 'cosey' airline. Again, read what I said.. If I was then I would be reading what I said again. When did I say was ever going to leave FR?
&.. ok so I'm an 'employee' not a 'business'? Well at the moment i guess I'm neither as I won't have any chance of a contract offer until I've successfully completed my line check.. Even then I'd be likey to get a Brookfield contract, which means that I would be a business technically speaking. Be it a sole trader or a Ltd Company. But all that crap to one side. I was saying, its a dog eat dog world. I know the 'there'll be more peeps waiting to take my place' argument as well.. its just endless..
FR has 'happened' to be the only airline that has given me a shot at what i actually want to do. After months and months of networking (and i have some good contacts in other airlines), phoning, letters etc etc etc. Chat's with senior guys, some invitations to get back to certain airlines in so many months time.. First time passes in everything, 92% ATPL average blar blar and.. no other interviews.
I have no right to a job because of that. But I'm a begger! Not a chooser in this instance! I would have quite happily crawled on one knee from john o groats to lands end for one. I'm that committed! I am certainly not risking 2 years of absolute commitment to flying, personal sacrifices and all the money the bank has lent me (meaning certain bankrupsy) just for the sake of peeps who are already in there. The kamikaze pilots were a strange and resolute bunch but I don't have such devotion. If it was for my mum (bless her) then yeh, i'd even die, but for you.. I will do what i can from the inside.
Anyway.. If this generates aload of 'responses' then thats cool, i guess that's what this place is for. A good ineffective 'vent'. Fairplay. Well thats my vent done. Not that I'm venting at you though.
Sincerely, all the best to everybody!
Last edited by Diamond_Dog; 25th Nov 2007 at 11:42.
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So little achieved because of so few who are so scared of their base Captains, they don't want to vote no for anything opposing company rule.
Blinded by bullsh#t unfortunately too many believe anything they are told by the FR management, or are won over by what seems to be a generous offer.
You must all pull together, a selfish few continue to balls things up for everyone else, it'll only ever get worse in FR otherwise.
Blinded by bullsh#t unfortunately too many believe anything they are told by the FR management, or are won over by what seems to be a generous offer.
You must all pull together, a selfish few continue to balls things up for everyone else, it'll only ever get worse in FR otherwise.
Last edited by MorningGlory; 26th Nov 2007 at 09:47.
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The problem with achieving anything this year is that they have watered down the amount of permanent pilots at STN. The vast majority of pilots, especially co pilots are brookfield contractors. This means that the captains will vote for last years agreement this coming April (because contractors dont count in the deal) and the deal will be done. Its a real shame for all of us, especially you you brand new copilot that may not get your command in 3 years time because this growth is not going to last. Those of you joining in 08 will be looking at F/O position for 7 or 8 years! You will be stuck in a very poor deal.
Indeed the growth has already started to slow down. In the last 3 months FR took 21 new a/c, but guess what, they have sold 20! 5 have already gone and the others will go early next year. So net growth of 1 a/c. The STN 20% cutback is a twofold reason; First to improve negotiating tactics with the BAA on a long term deal, but more importantly it suits FR because the loads are so bad. I have never seen such poor loads since I joined FR X years ago (too scared to say how many cos they might track me down, not joking!).
My prediction is for possible job losses next year. The job losses will be preceded by MOL and the henchmen trying to get the expensive pilots(at STN)to leave by pissing them off. They have done their Dublin cul, now they will focus on STN.
On a commercial standpoint, they will probably buyout a competitor Loco in an effort to reduce capacity in EU. So hopefully it wont be your airline because I would feel very sorry for you having to consider accepting T and Cs that will be well below current FR T and Cs.
Where is BALPA? Why arent you in the car parks at STN dishing out application forms? You must get down to grass root level. Your presence in STN in some office has gone unnoticed. If you dont get into FR it will cause such a headache for all you other customers too. Come on, one last push before April.
Indeed the growth has already started to slow down. In the last 3 months FR took 21 new a/c, but guess what, they have sold 20! 5 have already gone and the others will go early next year. So net growth of 1 a/c. The STN 20% cutback is a twofold reason; First to improve negotiating tactics with the BAA on a long term deal, but more importantly it suits FR because the loads are so bad. I have never seen such poor loads since I joined FR X years ago (too scared to say how many cos they might track me down, not joking!).
My prediction is for possible job losses next year. The job losses will be preceded by MOL and the henchmen trying to get the expensive pilots(at STN)to leave by pissing them off. They have done their Dublin cul, now they will focus on STN.
On a commercial standpoint, they will probably buyout a competitor Loco in an effort to reduce capacity in EU. So hopefully it wont be your airline because I would feel very sorry for you having to consider accepting T and Cs that will be well below current FR T and Cs.
Where is BALPA? Why arent you in the car parks at STN dishing out application forms? You must get down to grass root level. Your presence in STN in some office has gone unnoticed. If you dont get into FR it will cause such a headache for all you other customers too. Come on, one last push before April.
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"in my last airline." What a load of complete and utter rubbish. If you really work in Ryanair - then have a look at the netline ops screen and if you can count - you will find when I left STN crew room tonight there were 148 a/c operating across the network. Why do people invent this rubbish about the airline.
FR is taking 40 aircraft net from Apr 2008-2009. How do you make out there will be job losses. Read the website. Read Flight.
You should not be scared of Base Captains. The one who scares the trainers is PB. Quietly mass firing Jar 25 pilots, sending a blizzard of letters on sickness, constantly monitoring training, forcing pilots into contracting in their 100's. As I left STN at 10pm - he was bashing away at a keyboard - get a life you b....x. PB - There is more to life than a spreadsheet pilot hitlist.
FR is taking 40 aircraft net from Apr 2008-2009. How do you make out there will be job losses. Read the website. Read Flight.
You should not be scared of Base Captains. The one who scares the trainers is PB. Quietly mass firing Jar 25 pilots, sending a blizzard of letters on sickness, constantly monitoring training, forcing pilots into contracting in their 100's. As I left STN at 10pm - he was bashing away at a keyboard - get a life you b....x. PB - There is more to life than a spreadsheet pilot hitlist.
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inveritas I don't think there is as much difference between your assessment and that of in my last airline as you seem to think. You are both making an assessment of much the same info. It is a bit much to turn this into an accusation of his "making things up". He just gives us more of his reasoning than you do.
Neither of you, nor I, know what the future brings but we do know that loads are down, aircraft are arriving as if on a conveyor belt, second hand aircraft from FR are hard to sell and each new route tends to be more marginal than the last. It's easy to solve the latter problem (low cost = low salary, so you take more from the employees), but the other issues are more enduring.
Is it possible that we will see less pilots in FR next year, not to mention a further re-structuring of pilot employment and much reduced pay overall? Actually it is. There could be more pilots, routes and aircraft too. Only one thing is certain - average pilot pay will continue to decrease. One day it will be low enough that even the dumbest FR pilot will notice.
Neither of you, nor I, know what the future brings but we do know that loads are down, aircraft are arriving as if on a conveyor belt, second hand aircraft from FR are hard to sell and each new route tends to be more marginal than the last. It's easy to solve the latter problem (low cost = low salary, so you take more from the employees), but the other issues are more enduring.
Is it possible that we will see less pilots in FR next year, not to mention a further re-structuring of pilot employment and much reduced pay overall? Actually it is. There could be more pilots, routes and aircraft too. Only one thing is certain - average pilot pay will continue to decrease. One day it will be low enough that even the dumbest FR pilot will notice.
