Ryanair Pilot Shortage

[delwy]

PulpFiction what Carmoisine says is true. What you say is not.
I personally know pilots who have had the experience he describes (with Ryanair claiming "typos" in contracts).

Also, you have quoted IALPA as the source of what is obviously stupid advice. You claim IALPA has a motivation for this. Can you enlighten us? In other words, I am asking you to explain and justify your wild claims.

[JW411]

CamelhAir:

Could you tell us all why running vehicles on the airfield on red diesel is illegal?

We always used red diesel within the airfield boundary but you have to be very careful that you don't let that vehicle out on to the public highway.

Have I been breaking the law or are you talking with fancied wisdom?

[MorningGlory]

Ryanairs knackered beaten up old crew vans are used both airside AND landside to drive round to the office and drop off crews on a public highway. Guess this is why customs got the hump.

[JW411]

Yep! That would do it!

[Aloue]

PulpFiction posted above under the heading “Warning, a total lie from Carmosine” (post #61).

I do not know what motivates PulpFiction, but either he is perversely different, or motivated by some unfathomable inner demon. He has had a go at Carmoisine, accusing him of being a liar. It is important to know that PulpFiction seems to have two obsessions in life, namely Jet2 and Ryanair. In the case of Ryanair he seems to feel from time to time that posters describing their experience of Ryanair are wrong. There is no grey. They are wrong, he is right. His version is always right.

If you refer to the post above you will see that he is accusing Carmoisine of telling lies for saying something about matters that, funnily enough, he himself seems to accept in a post dated May 14th, where he states as follows:

I'm really not claiming that everything is as it should be when you resign from Ryanair, we all know of crew that the company has tried to screw with notice periods, bonds etc., leave not being allowed to be used towards notice periods and so on. If you work here then unfortunately that's what you come to expect.

Link (see post 21, May 14th):
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...52#post3286852

There is more. PulpFiction, or perhaps it was an alter ego, attacked me some time ago – again because of a post in which a truth about Ryanair was outlined. It’s a long story, about which you can read the conclusion here should you be interested:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...t=Aloue&page=7

On that thread (post 121) I think the evidence allowed me to fairly (and tactfully) conclude of PulpFiction that “….. you seem to be playing some kind of a game in which being candid is not the first priority.”

For a person who was so clearly identified as acting in a duplicitous manner (and who never said a word in reply to the post from which I quote above) to accuse others of being deceitful seems to me to be rather rich. For this reason the accusation about truthfulness he directs against Carmoisine might more properly directed against PulpFiction himself.

I cannot imagine what it is that motivates the PulpFiction’s of this world, but to pontificate in black and white terms about employment in Ryanair is simply to demonstrate your ignorance about the many shades of truth most Ryanair pilots have come to recognise as being part of employment there.

Finally, PulpFiction, you have made a serious accusation about IALPA. This is a new departure for you. Are you just using the anonymity of PPRuNe to throw more “misinformation” around, or do you have an explanation?

[bonernow]

FOK,

If you're a Brookfield guy on a floating base contract (5 on/5 off) then you make an additional 20 euros per schedule block hour. Therefore 900 hours per year multiplied by 105 euros. 94500 divided by 1.44 is 67500 per annum. If that co pilot is also a sim instructor, there is an allowance paid to take potential earnings up to Ł70k.

BUT, the contractor has to pay for hotac, meals, uniform, loss of licence, medical, loss of income insurance, pension, recurrent training etc, infact everything. So although there is the POTENTIAL to earn up to Ł70k, you're living out of a suitcase every five days and paying for hotac out of your own pocket which will considerably reduce your take home amount.

In my one "season" with Ryanair, I flew 885 hrs. The potential to earn what they advertise does exist but the reality is maybe two or three co pilots company wide have ever earned it!!

[airbourne]

Having watched the several FR threads for years it amazes me that a pilot hasnt cracked under the strain of a managment system that clearly could be compared to some regimes around the world and crashed an aircraft or something extreme. Im not saying go and do that but it does seem like the pilots continue to take some amount of abuse and do nothing about it. Youre all a very placid group of pilots or you have just been whipped so much thats theres no more that can be taken.

Several comments about monkey see, monkey do. There may be some of them in FR but you cant fault their safety record. What airlines havnt had serious crashes? Eh....Ryanair!

As for the diesel, to go from the white house, that landside and on a public road. Irish Customs used to cut down on the use of green/red diesel a lot with check points across the country. Lets hope that someone gets done for this cost saving move.

Finally, in an attempt to mix the pot and divide, I would suggest that Pulp Fiction is in fact a Ryanair Hack trying to discredit the most recent truthful piece of information to come out in recent times. Kudos Carmosine!

[Pulp Fiction]

He's still a liar

Most non Union protected Pilots have to cough up the cash for the sake of a quiet life.

Notice here that Carmosine's use of the word "pilots" demonstrates that this happens more than once/often/frequently etc.

Pulp Fiction I have a first hand account of the incident I mentioned.
I'm not going to go into further details as they would be personally identifying.

In his reply you'll now notice that Carmosine alludes to just one incident. Therefore he was originally trying to generate the impression that everyone who leaves the company is treated in an illegal manner. This is total rubbish. And if it's not a complete lie then it is certainly a misrepresentation of the facts. You don't hear FR's version of the events, just a totally biased pilot's point of view, from secondhand information passed onto him by someone with an axe to grind here. (Yes, of which there are many, most just like Carmosine who went along with €20,000+ in their sticky little hands to pay for a type rating, maybe not to FR but to Bond, and then moan and groan about what they are left with, i.e., Ryanair's terms of employment.)

I'm really not claiming that everything is as it should be when you resign from Ryanair, we all know of crew that the company has tried to screw with notice periods, bonds etc., leave not being allowed to be used towards notice periods and so on. If you work here then unfortunately that's what you come to expect.

Aloue, good to see that you have crawled out from under your stone to comment on yet another airline that you have neither never worked for nor know nothing about apart from what you read here. The above post does not mention "typos" completely changing notice periods or bonding arrangements being re-drawn, simply that notice periods/bonds are strictly adhered to with no room for professional negotiation or a bit of leaway. You have taken this quote completely out of context as it was a reply to some muppet who was asking how to resign from a company and needed to get real.

I work at Ryanair and, no, I don't think that it's the best company in the world, far from it, but you either get on with things and try to move forward or you just sit and whine on this website. In the work place I do not criticise those who pay for ratings but I genuinely feel like, "Well what the hell did you expect when you began an industry out of payng for your job? That your long-term prospects within the whole industry would improve as a result of your actions?" But pilots paid and now we have what we have; I just can't stand to read their constant moans here after the event

Finally, PulpFiction, you have made a serious accusation about IALPA. This is a new departure for you. Are you just using the anonymity of PPRuNe to throw more “misinformation” around, or do you have an explanation?

I do indeed have an explanation, Aloue. Ryanair is now much bigger than any other airline in Ireland by a long way. IALPA are totally frustrated that they are not recognised by Ryanair, their very existence could depend upon it. Believe me it is not the other way round. Certainly if FR get a hold of Aer Lingus, then they'll cease to exist with any power whatsoever. If therefore they can't get into Ryanair via the front door then they can start a campaign of misinformation to frighten the workforce into joining them. Unions always spell the same things, taking care of themselves first and protecting the top 10% of the pilots on a seniority list, they are as deceitful as any Ryanair manager and will happily spill biased propaganda for their own ends, irrespective of how it will affect you.

Aloue, I could go on to start a defence of myself here and bring in another airline who is far worse to work for than Ryanair but as you and your pals sprang to the defence of the guilty last time I'm not going to waste my time and effort. What does puzzle me, however, is why you are always so ready to defend them and yet always so ready to criticise me. You accept their total bu11sh!t so readily

And please don't dare bring up the anonymity of Pprune, you of all people when did you last put your own name to a post? Hypocrite.

[Hirsutesme]

Pulp fiction, I'm very surprised by the tone of your responses. I am not a Ryanair pilot, however, I do meet many of them, and have, as carmoisine, come across several examples of Ryanair attitudes and actions which are scandalous, not just rigorous enforcement, as you imply, but quite deliberate actions.

The real tragedy, IMHO, about ryanair, is it could be a fantastic place to work, if pilots and other employees were given two things, their legal rights, and respect.

[Carmoisine]

Pulp Fiction

Last post from me on this subject. Just to clarify, I do know one Pilot this has happened to. I have seen the e-mails and letters confirming what I have said. It is not second hand information.

IALPA says that there are others and I have no reason to believe this is not the truth. I re-read what I posted and I didn't say that every single Pilot has this happen to them, but some do. I don't hear of every single case so I can't give a figure or a percentage to quantify how many "some" are.

deceitful as any Ryanair manager

So you accuse them of being deceitful and then defend them in the next breath.

Interesting angle. Care to defend it further?

[stormin norman]

Ryanair= the Argos of the aviaton world ?

[captplaystation]

Almost as good as the "contract" cabin crew. Pay 1800euro for a course, with an implied monthly wage of around 1500 - 2000. Arrive at a base and discover that they have sent too many like you, and ,as you are only paid when you fly ( whereas it costs them nothing extra to fly the full-timers) find that you spend most of your time on Standby. Find yourself unable to pay the rent, and resign 2 months later. Ryanair 1800e up, some cute wee lassy from the former Eastern Europe minus 1800e ( or usually a lot more) They have already raped Slovakia ( at least most of the Polish , Latvian and Lithuanians had full time contracts) next stop Czech Republic, Bulgaria and Romania I guess. Lock up your daughters, if they wanted to be raped at least they could work in a brothel and earn some money at the same time.

[Beaver diver]

Ryanair starts to import Romanian and Bulgarian pilots

Hey guys,

I have just heard from my source that Ryanair wants to import Romanian and Bulgarian pilots to work for them as they are frustrated for manpower. Although they might have a problem in UK, since the government has decide to not let any of them into the UK until 2009. Maybe they should try Poland, plenty of them flying around?

Your thoughts?
BD

[Boy]

Contract typos ...

Re this “errors in contracts” business, a mate of mine who was a co-pilot with Ryanair told me a similar story. About 2-3 years ago, when he was in Ryanair for a few years, he received a memo out of the blue which said something like:

There is a typing error in clause X.y of your contract which should read “…….”

I have forgotten the details, but I think the effect was to deny him a promotion to a higher salary scale. Whatever it was, I do remember that he was not the only co-pilot to get this memo and that the typing error was to their disadvantage and not Ryanair’s. But I guess that there is no surprise at that.

[bonernow]

And they do!

And will continue to do so for many years yet I fear.

When I left RYR earlier this year, the pilots were nowhere near being unionised, organised, or in the mood for a fight.

That's why I left. And as Carmousine posted earlier, we're now seeing in RYR the 50k euro salary for Capts.

What's next?

I wonder what will be the straw that breaks the Camel's back?

[captplaystation]

Speaking of camel's, haven't seen the hairy one for a while, would have thought this thread would be right up his street. Where is he ? off having therapy, or still in mourning for Dr Tony Ryan ?

[FlyingIrishman]

From what I hear, the camel has resigned!!!!!

I suppose working for the best company got unbearable for him...

[captplaystation]

One less prat to vote the wrong way if we ever get to that stage, wonder if we will recognise the new version when he comes on singing the praises of whichever sweat-mill he has gone to. Would it be indiscrete to ask where he has meandered off to, or is he serving his 3 months notice like a good little camel ?

[easymoney]

So who was he then...............

[Aloue]

"Liar", "deceitful", "crawled out from under your stone", "hypocrite" ….these are all words used by PulpFiction about other posters. Colourful language, but yet he never provides justification for anything he says, despite requests. All we get are insults and general accusations of stupidity, or dishonesty. Here is the justification apparently offered for his claim (clearly made up) that IALPA is the source of Carmoisine's so-called "liar" post:

… then they can start a campaign of misinformation to frighten the workforce into joining them. Unions always spell the same things, taking care of themselves first and protecting the top 10% of the pilots on a seniority list, they are as deceitful as any Ryanair manager and will happily spill biased propaganda for their own ends, irrespective of how it will affect you.

That all looks to me like opinion, not fact …supposition, not proof … prejudice, not fair comment …assertion, not deduction. His posts obviously speak for themselves.

He also suggests that I get my opinions from a malevolent union and that I cannot think for myself. No proof or argument in support, just a statement/accusation. Taken together these are hardly credible positions for a reasonable person, or even an adult in full possession of their faculties!

I have no more to add and I will leave the readers of the posts in this discussion to make up their minds as to who here is credible in respect of these matters - and who is not.