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Monarch T & C's

Old 14th May 2007, 09:44
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Easyryder and ZeBedie.

Is calling colleagues, Moron, Parasite and comments "join and you can find out" a good way to try and get people to join the union.
Maybe if the person in question was to know how shafted he may become he would join.

Just a thought.
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Old 14th May 2007, 10:09
  #282 (permalink)  
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Absolutely agree, calling people names will get ya nowhere. Yes some (not many i know these days), decide not to join BALPA, its their call. But they will get NO support during any action, their choice, calling them names hardly will make them feel welcome.....
Anyhow, my ex Spotty M friends, like BYMONEK, i wish you well.

EGGW
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Old 14th May 2007, 11:15
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ZeBedie & Easyrider:
ZeBedie,
Totally agree!
Please no one post the info or private msg 185lbs (of $#!T3 ??).
You can either help us fight the good fight that will hopefully help all the pilots or you can shut up & bend over TJs desk and hand him the vaseline.
To think any of us boys and girls in BALPA are going to help you with the info your seeking so you can make career decisions, spews extreme arrogance/stupidity.
Moron!
When I refered to "considering my position" it was with regard to BALPA membership and not to my career.
Anyway, you have helped in your own way
My thanks to the more constructive contributors
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Old 14th May 2007, 11:18
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We'll be nice to him if he joins.
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Old 14th May 2007, 11:23
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185,

I apologise for my rant - just having a bad day i guess.

Hope you join up, most members arent raving lunatics like moi!
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Old 14th May 2007, 12:12
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Anyway, you have helped in your own way
What? You've found a new excuse to save your membership fee?
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Old 14th May 2007, 16:28
  #287 (permalink)  
 
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So far, only 1 offer from the CC, and eventually only 1 "counter offer" from the management, neither of which would seem to be realistic. There is a lot more talking to be done yet and that will no doubt take a lot of time, which is a well established Co. ploy to avoid paying out in Aprils pay packet. You all seem to be getting hot and bothered before the final deal is on the table!
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Old 14th May 2007, 18:11
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I believe the pay claim presented by the CC was perfectly reasonable. All it does is bring us back into the same ballpark as MYT, TFly, F Choice etc. What is unrealistic about that?
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Old 14th May 2007, 18:12
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Hot and Bothered

People should get hot and bothered before the final offer, its only way the company will put something sensible on the table.
Traditionally the company has stalled the talks and given poor pay increases, which is why, we are now lagging behind others. Its time that the likes of TJ, PB and RS were shown, that our pay and conditions need to be inline with other operators.
The company has always made good money, last year was exceptionally good, we all worked hard and continue to work hard.
I for one will no be extending my FTL, working a day off or answering my phone before my STBY, unless we are fairly paid with good working conditions.
Its no good waiting for the summer season to end before we take action, Do it now, over the busy period!
I've seen this companies conditions deteriorate ever the years, lets hope this CC does give anything away.
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Old 14th May 2007, 18:18
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Correct me if I am wrong, but those companies also give share options, better staff travel and no positioning after a long duty. They also used to lagg behind our pay scale, not any more. I think if you look at the total package we offer new entrants, its very poor in comparison. Not only do we have to protect the pilots that have been here a long time, but we need to help our younger friends continue to enjoy good pay conditions in the future.
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Old 14th May 2007, 19:34
  #291 (permalink)  
 
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185lbs. Now I've calmed down, I apologise for using the word "parasite". I would not have said that to your face, so I don't feel comfortable saying it anonymously either.

However, I still maintain that any Monarch pilot not in BALPA at the moment is taking something he's not paid for. Just ask yourself where your prospects would be heading without a strong BALPA and whether your pay would be even as "good" as it is now, without the efforts of BALPA members in Monarch over the past 40 years.
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Old 14th May 2007, 21:14
  #292 (permalink)  
 
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querty, we believe our claim is fair TJ does not, TJ believes his offer fair we do not. It appears to me that is a pretty healthy way to start the negotiations.

Ever bought a second hand car?

Lets leave it to the CC to progress our claim, this bloodletting on a public forum is pointless.

As a BALPA member the CC have my full support.
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Old 15th May 2007, 08:36
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Virgin T,

Are you saying that trying to bring our T&C's upto industry standard forms an over the top claim?

Why do you think our poor salary and T&C's should be kept secret? Surely the world should understand what the fight is about.

I fully support our CC and certainly don't expect them to meet TJ "in the middle".
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Old 15th May 2007, 19:24
  #294 (permalink)  
 
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185Lbs

You say that you are "considering you position...in relation to BALPA membership". Given that you are seeking information from us, the fee paying members, perhaps you would share what elements of joining you are still considering, so we are better able to decide what we feel we would like to share with you, other than (unintentionally) the benefits of our union fees.

You implied that you have some moral objection to unionised actions when you stated that “Personally, I just fundamentally disagree with the principle. I suppose it's just not right” however that seems somewhat at odds to the following post that you made on another thread back in Oct 05 entitled “Balpa”.

“I believe that they (BALPA) have been a big help to crews and potential crews at Monarch as they have been negotiating on their behalf. So it's not all BA. I'm off to an airline soon and not sure if it's worth the 1%. I think i'll sit with the IPA”

So Which is it? do you "fundamentally disagree" with unionised action despite your membership of the IPA, or do you still think that it's "not worth the 1%" but are quite happy to ask us to pay it on your behalf and seek the information via PPRUNE?





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Old 15th May 2007, 21:08
  #295 (permalink)  
 
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MON 321,

Thats exactly what i meant to write, instead of the rant above!

Well put
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Old 15th May 2007, 21:20
  #296 (permalink)  
 
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My position regarding striking is as previously stated. I have seen nothing here to persuade me to change my view. I have made an agreement with someone and I am honour bound to it.
I made my position clear and was hoping that some of my colleagues who feel differently might chip in and enable us all to have a valuable discussion.
I realise that some people believe that those pilots who are not members of BALPA are getting a free ride and I understand that point of view. Also, I appreciated the comment that with membership would come a chance for me to have a voice and vote against a strike if that is what I chose to do.
I asked for the information on the offer as I was considering joining BALPA. Unfortunately it has been met, mostly, with derisory comments.
I see no conflict with my stated position regarding a strike and my previous comments regarding the 1% price of BALPA membership. I have never claimed to disagree with 'unionised action' although I do 'fundamentally disagree' with strike action.
I have been a member of the IPA for many years and feel that they give a very good service. Their ability to do so relies on membership which could be undermined by 'bully boy' behaviour experienced in some quarters which persuades previously loyal members to join BALPA.
My previous thread which has been chopped up and quoted in selected parts to suit MON321's purpose was as follows:
I have been a member of the IPA for 10 years and I have to sy a big for them. They are very in-expensiive and very efficient if you ever need any advice etc.
They have legal cover through Abbey Legal and discounted LOL insurance.
I was also a member of BALPA for a few years and that was also quite cheap as they were not a representative for the company so the 1% didn't apply. When I left to join a company whose contract was not written under Engish law; they said they would not be able to help me legaly. I left.
I believe that they have been a big help to crews and potential crews at Monarch as they have been negotiating on their behalf. So it's not all BA. I'm off to an airline soon and not sure if it's worth the 1%. I think i'll sit with the IPA
It was in response to this question:
Balpa
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Does anyone have a view on the British Airways Line Pilots Association and whether it is any good for GA bods. I've been thinking of joining either that or the Ittle Pilots Association but am told it won't help the guys in smaller outfits or one plane operations
The thread goes onto discuss the various merits of BALPA and the IPA and the relative costs. That hopefully gives context to my reply.
Presently, I’m not convinced that BALPA membership is worth 1% of my salary. Many of the gentlemen I fly with have been members and have left due to disillusionment with either BALPA or the CC over the years, and others are themselves not members.
At least these pages have shown me why they don't post on here - I was correct to deploy my hard hat!
It seems that those who have the ability to discuss without dissolving into playground antics such as name calling and comments that sound very much like “you're not in our gang” and “it’s my ball, you’re not playing” don’t post here. Consequently I’m taking a moratorium and offer my appologies to “Touchin’ Down” for our hijacking of his thread.
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Old 15th May 2007, 21:51
  #297 (permalink)  
 
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185lbs....

Perhaps if you approached your CC members, they could accurately fill you in on the latest info without you having to trawl for it here.

Also, they could tell you about the tax rebate you are now entitled to as a BALPA member, making the membership significantly cheaper and a lot more useful than the IPA in my opinion.
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Old 15th May 2007, 23:49
  #298 (permalink)  
 
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.

i think things are getting out of focus here .... this is about the poor MON T&C's and whats NOT being done by management to redress this .... not who is in which union or which union (or not) represents value for money. if you want to have a debate about BALPA/IPA/ISA/BNP start another thread !

this is about unity between the pilot workforce, and about taking back some of the ground which has been lost over the years and i am sure everyone is behind the CC, whether or not they are a member of any union !

whats being lost here, and i'm sure management are chuckling their heads off, is that we are being treated like uneducated 'resources' who love bending over and 'taking one for the company' ... dont get me wrong, as long as i feel that i'm being properly remunerated, looked after and treated well i dont mind going the extra mile. however, when my take home pay is near the bottom of the league table, where even friends with other operators like Jet 2 or Astraeus are taking home more than me and where management are trying to further erode my quality of life .... i get a little pi$$ed off ... dare i say militant ???

i know how the negotiation process works, but i would like to see more pressure put on management to come up with a realistic package sooner rather than later. i'm sure they have done their home and have figured out how much a days strike would cost them in terms of revenue, poor publicity and humiliation .... they are not holding any aces .... and what we must remember is that we are not asking for anything over the top .... merely to pull ourselves up the ladder to somewhere near where we were a few years ago ..... before we started 'taking one for the company' .... and while we were pulling up our pants MYT, TFLY, FCA, TCX et al left us in the dust !
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Old 16th May 2007, 11:23
  #299 (permalink)  
 
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185Lbs

I in no way tried to bully you, I simply asked you to clarify your position for the information of the fee paying members from whom you seek information. You fulfilled that request when you once again stated"I’m not convinced that BALPA membership is worth 1% of my salary." What I don't understand is how knowing what the offer from the co. is will change the issues that you have repeatedly stated as your reasons for not joining, namely the charges and your fundamental objection to striking? Please either enlighten me or just admit that you were trying to freeload.

You've made it clear that you're not going to join and that's fine, but then you don't need to know anything else regarding the pay negotiations as you will have no vote and no control, so don't ask.

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Old 16th May 2007, 12:00
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Just to point out to 185lbs the membership to BALPA for new joiners has a 50% reduction in year one and 25% reduction in year two. So its not 1% of your gross salary, it is only 0.5% year 1 and 0.75% year two of gross salary.
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