Flybe Recruiting and Ts & Cs
Join Date: May 2005
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Seen This Before
I seem to remember questioning the actions of the CC in another thread and FE said i was talking drivel. Actions speak louder than words and this reduced pay for new joiners is vindication of what i said.
Who will be next for a pay cut, not senior hangers-on thats for sure.
Who will be next for a pay cut, not senior hangers-on thats for sure.
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Hi BiVIRAAM,
I read your previous post and FE (Fred Elliot's) reply. You were both right to some extent, although FE was rude.
To clarify:
The pay offer is 4% p.a. each year for three years (not the 2.4% you speculated).
With the arrival of the EMB195, there is a good possibility of FOs with less than 5 years service going onto the jet, if the seniority list is followed. The bidding for places is underway now.
The CC have written to BALPA members with the pay offer and revised pay scales. The proposal is for FO starting pay to be reduced to £23,000. The ballot is not finished yet.
It is possible that the balloted offer will be rejected - the basis for many pilots discontent is the errosion of their T&Cs due to lack of crews (this was in part a deliberate action by rostering when the numbers of crew per aircraft were reduced from 5 Cpts and 5 FOs to 4.3 of each per aircraft; with the remaining crews often working to their FTL max). The pay offer of 12% over 3 years does not overcome this difficulty - we will see if its acceptable to crews.
If the balloted offer is rejected (and this would be due to the erosion of T&Cs) a strike is very likely - once the BALPA formalities have been concluded.
I like flying for Flybe, however the reduced T&Cs are unacceptable; a strike would unfortunately be damaging to the company, so I sincerely hope it can be avoided, with proper crewing levels being maintained and crews not constantly being told that they are working to "legal limits" by crewing when working to FTL limitations.
I read your previous post and FE (Fred Elliot's) reply. You were both right to some extent, although FE was rude.
To clarify:
The pay offer is 4% p.a. each year for three years (not the 2.4% you speculated).
With the arrival of the EMB195, there is a good possibility of FOs with less than 5 years service going onto the jet, if the seniority list is followed. The bidding for places is underway now.
The CC have written to BALPA members with the pay offer and revised pay scales. The proposal is for FO starting pay to be reduced to £23,000. The ballot is not finished yet.
It is possible that the balloted offer will be rejected - the basis for many pilots discontent is the errosion of their T&Cs due to lack of crews (this was in part a deliberate action by rostering when the numbers of crew per aircraft were reduced from 5 Cpts and 5 FOs to 4.3 of each per aircraft; with the remaining crews often working to their FTL max). The pay offer of 12% over 3 years does not overcome this difficulty - we will see if its acceptable to crews.
If the balloted offer is rejected (and this would be due to the erosion of T&Cs) a strike is very likely - once the BALPA formalities have been concluded.
I like flying for Flybe, however the reduced T&Cs are unacceptable; a strike would unfortunately be damaging to the company, so I sincerely hope it can be avoided, with proper crewing levels being maintained and crews not constantly being told that they are working to "legal limits" by crewing when working to FTL limitations.
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Flybe do recruit DEC and will even offer a base before you start to tempt you; they are desperate for Captains at the moment. However if I read your post correctly you are an FO? albeit an experienced one. So you would represent a training risk to them in the rare event that you failed your Capt conversion. An A320 Capt from another airline was offered a job at my interview with a base of his choice but starting on the Q400. He accepted with a pay drop of around 20k! Lifestyle/area to live over cash was his choice......I havent answered all your questions but hope this helps .....all the best....
Last edited by MVE; 29th Sep 2006 at 08:09. Reason: RTFQx2
SK111
By all means apply, but think very seriously about it before you move.
For no additional salary you will be moving from a flag carrier to the opposite end of the spectrum, working your rocks off and moving to what presumably would be a foreign country away from family and friends.
Flybe are very short of Dash 8 captains, and someone on the company web site has posted that a load more experienced pilots have resigned this month. There is an ongoing dispute over terms and conditions which may well lead to industrial action, and a management team who are only interested in very short term profitability in order for the company to be floated. Is this somewhere you really want to move to?
With your experience if you want to move to the UK and hold a JAR licence you could almost certainly get a RHS on a boeing/airbus and be looking at command in 5 - 8 years. At flybe as a DEC you go to the bottom of the seniority list and will wait for about 7 - 8 years to get a jet command on the embraer 195 (assuming of course that the company is still there in 8 years time), and when you get that jet command you will be earning at least £10k less than a jet captain in any other UK airline.
Your choice obviously.
By all means apply, but think very seriously about it before you move.
For no additional salary you will be moving from a flag carrier to the opposite end of the spectrum, working your rocks off and moving to what presumably would be a foreign country away from family and friends.
Flybe are very short of Dash 8 captains, and someone on the company web site has posted that a load more experienced pilots have resigned this month. There is an ongoing dispute over terms and conditions which may well lead to industrial action, and a management team who are only interested in very short term profitability in order for the company to be floated. Is this somewhere you really want to move to?
With your experience if you want to move to the UK and hold a JAR licence you could almost certainly get a RHS on a boeing/airbus and be looking at command in 5 - 8 years. At flybe as a DEC you go to the bottom of the seniority list and will wait for about 7 - 8 years to get a jet command on the embraer 195 (assuming of course that the company is still there in 8 years time), and when you get that jet command you will be earning at least £10k less than a jet captain in any other UK airline.
Your choice obviously.
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SK111
I agree with the above post, I can understand your desire to become a captain when you have so many hours and are still in the right seat of a Dash 8. Of course I don't know you, but feel that you should forget this idea. You would work very hard under what would probably be poorer terms than you are used to.
I agree with the above post, I can understand your desire to become a captain when you have so many hours and are still in the right seat of a Dash 8. Of course I don't know you, but feel that you should forget this idea. You would work very hard under what would probably be poorer terms than you are used to.
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15 in the last couple of days!!!! Where on earth are they going? Easy??
I wonder how this will impact on the requirement drive they are about to start…..?
I wonder how this will impact on the requirement drive they are about to start…..?
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Flights currently being cancelled due to lack of Q400 Capts. Existing ones working lots of hours all over the Flybe network away from base (& home!). Ex BA Cathay types 50 plus jumping ship as the local base dream is turning into a nightmare! Training in crisis etc etc. Very worried where it will all end up. Thinking of giving it all up to become a swedish porn star - maybe!?
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I wonder how this will impact on the requirement drive they are about to start…..?
Please replace "requirement" with "recruitment".......
papazulu,
I would assume they are looking for a range of people. From the Balpa EOC, they like everyone else, needs experienced guys/gals. But I hope they're looking to take on a few newly qualified folks as well.
When? 1st October was my understanding - that's tomorrow!!
Please replace "requirement" with "recruitment".......
papazulu,
I would assume they are looking for a range of people. From the Balpa EOC, they like everyone else, needs experienced guys/gals. But I hope they're looking to take on a few newly qualified folks as well.
When? 1st October was my understanding - that's tomorrow!!
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Funkie,
Spot on, they need a balanced mixture to fulfill the CAA's requirements, they can't take a whole load of newbies on, they need experience as well!
Yep at least 15 have resigned this month, and rumour is many more to come, so I think this will be good news for guys trying to get in, but VERY bad news for Flybe, as many going are Q400 captains. I had a flight cancelled very recently due to no Captain.....
Many F/O's with the minimum requirement are being asked if they would like command assesments as they are desperate for Captains, and they continue to loose trainers as well.....AND, there is the continued pay/conditions dispute which is looking like a NO vote will be returned.
All in all, Flybe management must be a wee bit worried at the mo! I'm sure any potential buyer/investor will be put off by some of the goings on of late. Hope it all ends well though, as I don't want to be out of a job!
Good luck
------------------
endofeng
Spot on, they need a balanced mixture to fulfill the CAA's requirements, they can't take a whole load of newbies on, they need experience as well!
Yep at least 15 have resigned this month, and rumour is many more to come, so I think this will be good news for guys trying to get in, but VERY bad news for Flybe, as many going are Q400 captains. I had a flight cancelled very recently due to no Captain.....
Many F/O's with the minimum requirement are being asked if they would like command assesments as they are desperate for Captains, and they continue to loose trainers as well.....AND, there is the continued pay/conditions dispute which is looking like a NO vote will be returned.
All in all, Flybe management must be a wee bit worried at the mo! I'm sure any potential buyer/investor will be put off by some of the goings on of late. Hope it all ends well though, as I don't want to be out of a job!
Good luck
------------------
endofeng
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
Hmmmmm.....I've seen this somewhere before.....
The post below is from a flybe thread last year. It must be a seasonal phenomenon. Or maybe they just don't pay enough. 
sr
24th October 2005, 18:17 #18
doublehole
Has to be at least 30 people out there treading water!!
Heard thats how many are about to jump ship.
sr
24th October 2005, 18:17 #18
doublehole
Has to be at least 30 people out there treading water!!
Heard thats how many are about to jump ship.
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Since January 2005 they have recruited at least 163 Pilots and since January 2006, 64 Pilots. That is just under Half of the Pilot work force in about 18 months to replace the ones they have lost, let alone catering for the planned expansion.
Says it all really.
Says it all really.
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So, does anyone know if the recruitment opened yesterday. This is the first chance I've had to log on and apply, only to find it is still closed.....or have i missed it
Thanks
c99
Thanks
c99
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Whats the latest on the pay and terms and conditions ballot? Yes? No? Strike?
I heard that all but one EDI q400 Captains were amongst those recent resignations, that might explain the reason to have a recruitment day in EDI!
I heard that all but one EDI q400 Captains were amongst those recent resignations, that might explain the reason to have a recruitment day in EDI!
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T&C's
If the shortage of Captains is so bad as some on this thread indicate, what is the company doing about it other than advertise open days when only a handful of people turn up?
Surely thay have got the message by now that Terms and Condtions need to improve?
From where I see it base salary needs a minimum of a 10% increase and introduction of sector pay would go some way to get the experienced people they appear to need.
The fact they do not seem to be doing any of this makes me wonder if there really is such a 'mass exodus' going on?
I do not mean to critise any posters to this thread, but maybe the level of resignations has been exaggerated?
Surely thay have got the message by now that Terms and Condtions need to improve?
From where I see it base salary needs a minimum of a 10% increase and introduction of sector pay would go some way to get the experienced people they appear to need.
The fact they do not seem to be doing any of this makes me wonder if there really is such a 'mass exodus' going on?
I do not mean to critise any posters to this thread, but maybe the level of resignations has been exaggerated?
Meeb,
All your comments are correct except for questioning the number of resignations. From one of the Balpa cc members I heard last week that there were 15 resignations at the end of September, of which 9 were Q400 captains from various bases. There have also been resignations from dash F/Os and 146 captains and F/Os.
From the same source I was told that prior to these resignations they were already short of 20 dash captains. As has been mentioned they are already cancelling flights if captains call in sick as there is no one left to provide standby cover.
All your comments are correct except for questioning the number of resignations. From one of the Balpa cc members I heard last week that there were 15 resignations at the end of September, of which 9 were Q400 captains from various bases. There have also been resignations from dash F/Os and 146 captains and F/Os.
From the same source I was told that prior to these resignations they were already short of 20 dash captains. As has been mentioned they are already cancelling flights if captains call in sick as there is no one left to provide standby cover.