Earthmover

Speaking as one who has been through three major takeover/mergers, you all have my fellow-feeling - on both sides of the fence. It can be ugly - but not always. MaxReheat identifies the core of the issue. The success of TUPE depends entirely on the integrity of the two companies involved - this is from personal (alarming) experience.

And cabingal, my heartfelt sympathy - I heard of my last takeover by text message too - the feeling of disbelief is hard to explain to those who haven't had their lives turned upside-down by a few words on a mobile phone screen.

My very best wishes to all of you - there are lots of us out here who have shared your experience .. and it seems that most of us have survived in the business, some (including me) to advantage. Good luck.

Jaq

There is one positive thing in all this that seems to be getting missed. Flybe are not going to want our incompetent management. Finally we will be rid of the managers.
You know, the ones that said Flybe were a 'Here today, gone tomorrow airline'. That's for them.
For me Christmas has come early.

Noiffsorbuts

Dunno about Christmas coming early. It just might be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire.

On balance (and I know that the devil is in the detail) Id rather take my chances with a company that has some belief in itself and a dynamic management team who are expanding their company.

Our dismal one trick CEO David Evans only knows how to cut, close and give away the best bits of the business.

Heaven knows where BA found him but his ineptitude which has all but brought us to our knees will be sorely unmissed!

cabingal

Thank you Earthmover - very kind, I am putting things into perspective - looks like we will keep our jobs! Just see what happens I suppose! I'm not going to jump ship just yet!

brain fade

Well folks- at least now we know!

Plusses

1. Uncertainty removed.
2. Flybe make money- so
3. Maybe you get to the base you want-and to stay there.
4. Money the same if TUPE honoured (am I correct in thinking Flybe Jet pay similar to BACon??)
5. Shiny new metal coming soon in the shape of the -195's

minusses.
1. No more BA Staff travel?
2. Scheduling agreement will have to fought for.
3. Will ex BACon "jet" people get bumped onto the TP's due Flybe folk being more senior?? This will be the real cruncher.

3a.If it turns out to be pish you can always leave!

cabingal

The seniority bit will do my head in cos I am quite senior at Bacon! I'll be gutted about my concessions though!

lookwatchthis

A couple of inadvertent innacuracies have crept in to this thread. Firstly, TUPE, the regulations that protect employees' terms and conditions when a business is transferred, do not apply where a business is transferred by means of share purchase and secondly, even in circumstances where TUPE does apply, pension benefits are expressly excluded from the TUPE regulations.

skywaytoheaven

Flybe have ordered 14 E-195 with options for 12. This is surely going to mean not enough seats to even come close to satisfying everybody. Surely alot of Bacon jet jocks are going to have to go Q400, which is fine for some, but i'm sure many will not be happy with the 'downgrade'. Good luck to all.

Noiffsorbuts

Flybe are going to have to go on a very convincing charm offensive or they might just discover that they have acquired a company where everyone is leaving.

Two things.......... staff travel and a naieve hope that we might be absorbed into BA kept many hanging on.

If everyone is to be thrown onto the bottom of their seniority list and demoted off type then forget it.............

Come to think of it.what does it matter to Flybe if a lot of Bacon pilots go? No tupe to worry about and no hassle.

JPjoystick

RR,Which dept where they in?

trotts

Hi All,

Sorry to hear that BA have treated their staff so poorly with notification - for what it's worth flybe staff only found out on getting into work/returning after a roster this morning, but at least we got a shiny video/letter/handout to look at. Not much detail in them either, lots of questions to be answered and something of a bolt from the blue.

Flybe is a weird thing in itself -the people on the line are great and there is a generally very positive attitude to the day's work. That's the only good bit.

There is no scheduling agreement; in fact, after a year in the company I'm still without a contract I'm willing to sign. Your life aint really your own -we are working, at SOU, 6 day stretches of at least 4 sectors a day, always finishing on a late and starting on an early for 56 hrs off. That means one beer night in 8 -or is it 9? -I'm too knackered to work it out. In Oct I flew over 85 hrs and all standby days were called in.

The Q400 is a hoot - very capable and efficient on paper, especially banknote paper, but a bitch to fly and the flightdeck is an ergonomic slum. Great fun as long as you can let the gotcha's wash over you and have no pride in getting a greaser now and then.

You have little control over the roster; day-off requests are usually ignored and have to be in before you get the relevant invite/appointment and if you don't know when you want your 28 days leave 9 months in advance a nice lady in Exeter decides for you.

April 06's pay deal still is in dispute, although the TP pay is better than BACON's. The membership blew away the last offer - 4% pa for 3 years is a con, and it lacked a scheduling agreement apart from a few minor concessions. 195 course slots are rare to the point of extinction. The management clearly don't give a toss about the staff welfare or morale - good to know we upped the value of their options by 20million last six months though.

And the 3rd PArty handling agents range from OK to lousy.

SO - Were I in BACON I'd be glad of the security, certain for the TP pilots and hopefully for the Jet guys, but I would look at flybe, as sooooo many of us do, as either an employer convenient to a regional airport where you really want to live, or a stepping stone to another job.

There is one more good point, actually, lots of jet operators are developing a real taste for people with Q400 experience!

Gaza

You are correct to point out that pensions are excluded from TUPE but your first point does not make sense. BA are selling (giving away) BACon. In return BA will receive a 15% share, not 15% of the shares .Therefore the transaction will not be viewed as a share purchase and TUPE will apply.

Red Snake

To the Flybe folk:

Any chance of breakdown of your aircraft type by base? Judging by the press releases, the future for BRS doesn't look good. We're all 145 people since the Dash-8s left, so the future in Flybe looks like a forced base move to a turboprop & I can't believe there'll be many takers. But any more insight would be gratefully received.

TIA, RS

BluffOldSeaDog

Well Trotts, let's see what we can bring to the table then

skianyn vannin

Thankyou trotts for confirming what many of us already think of FlyBe. Its patently obvious that there won't be anything like enough jet seats for those of us already flying BACON 146's and Embraers. I'm pretty sure they will be reserved for the boys at the top of the FlyBe seniority list.

So what are we looking at? Sitting in the RHS of a trash 8? I don't think so. I'm not going to throw away 2500 hours of medium jet experience to go and work for a dead end company.

I don't see that TUPE will work. I'm sure that FlyBe simply can't afford it. And even if we were to be promoted within Flybe, I'm sure their turbo prop Captains pay is little better than what we already pay our jet F/O's.

The only way is out!

The Little Prince

Evans and co, particularly Hutchings, etc, will be nothing but a laughing stock within the industry, I can remember the way PH used to strut around, pompous ASS!!!!! Doubt if he could pass another conversio actually!

Ronaldsway Radar

Ones in the hangar, doing the dirty work . Only spoke to him briefly so not sure of all the details ie. termination dates. Turns out the other is ok for the moment he's not worrying.

Captain Correlli

Anyone ANY idea if all the RJs will be kept (for the moment) or if the handback will commence in the NY as planned?
Please please please can I buy the trainers some drinks before they do the Type Ratings for Hutch, Deac and the Feelan? I'm sure they'll be COMPLETELY fair, hopefully DD will maybe do all of them, and do FOR them the way they did for him!

Early days, but anyone any idea if moving to EDI incurs a bond? Imagine it could be a good idea to move up there with this bunch, then tunnel away to Globespan

Cornflake

I can just hardly believe this. I have to keep pinching myself. How did we get here from where we were before BA bought us? How could this possibly have happened? How did we get such INCOMPETENT, ILLITERATE, PATHETIC and ARROGANT managers??????? No business skills, no commercial skills, no financial skills, no people skills, and as Phelan demoed, no flying skills either. Truly incredible, if I had read a book about us, I would have said it was ridiculous!!!!! The only only only reason most of us hung around was the FS pension, and the thought that SURELY SURELY SURELY it had to get better some time. What odds were there that it was to be death by a hundred cuts? Two years the effing crunt said, two years to get profitable????? Effing five months or so was all it took; how could we have let it come to this, why why why did we belive them, why we all so effing stupid???????
Do I stay, go, trust Flybe, become an ancient FO with another airline, or stay and maybe be seniority listed down to a TP again??
When my son asks if he should think about becoming a pilot - what should I say???

Holy MOG, I need a drink, no, I need a bottle.......

AHA2218

Well, after speaking to a few collegues the rumours about BA are true
BRAL & Brymon used to have 8 sectors a day to LHR, the main share holder was a major Insurance Company, who sold their share to BA for an estimated £125 million.
How much would BAA have sold these routes for?
Cheaper to buy the airline than buy the sectors then put a 747 on the sector than a 146

Think the first to go will be IOM, can't really see them keeping the hangar as they have EXE and BHX.

The hangar at BHX which BA Connect has acquired is allegedly sub contacted from BA mainline.

BA Connect own very few aircraft, the lease on the RJ's is due to expire in the next year or so.

Whats going to happen to the MAN - JFK route, technically that's a BACON owned sector.

Rumour has it that a major banking business is behind the EDI - LCY route, wonder how they will react

Don't forget good old Mr. W Walsh sitting in his lovely office at Waterside,
You need two people to shake hands, a little thought for him

Not a happy bunny

Soon to be an ex-employee of BA Disconnect