EASYJET FO TAKE HOME PAY(AFTER PAYRISE)

[A4]

For Christs sake - calm down everyone!!! Mines bigger than yours - I get more than you...... it doesn't matter! We're all grown ups. We can all make our own decisions. Yes, TRSS is not ideal - but no-one is forced to sign up to it. Market forces may mean it will change soon with the market as bouyant as it is.

Finding the "right" job is very difficult in this game. Some want longhaul some don't. Some have young children, some don't. Some want to live in a particular location. If you can find a Company that will give you all these then you may have to bite the bullet and take some of the rough with the smooth. I wasn't thrilled at being on 90% for 6 months (especially with 5,000 hours and 4 years Command on type) but I signed up to it because, in the longer run, it suited ME.

I fly a lot 800+ hours in 12 months - more than my previous company. However, within a few years, we will ALL be flying max hours - any company that doesn't will be at a distinct commercial disadvantage. In the longer run, I also think DEC's will become more common - especially as the experience gap widens with many airlines taking Cadet pilots who will be RHS for 4-5 years minimum. We must be the last industry that has such a restrictive transfer of skills policy. Can you imagine a management accountant being told he's got to be a "junior clerk" when he joins a new company or a consultant surgeon only doing in-grown toe nails when moving hospital. It's ludicrous. I'm not saying I agree with it but I do think it will be more common (and necessary).

So, bottom line. Think carefully about the Company you join, your reasons for doing so and the implications both financial and career wise of your choice. But please don't slate other people for the choices they make - we're all individuals.

Fly safe!

A4

[Nice Touch]

A4

good post and in my way I was saying the same.

BUT

757 you can have some now. I never implied that I was a RHS-that was a long time ago for me-as long as the LHS will be for you. Oh and don't kid on that you are because I have read your past posts and you are not a Captain.

What is a fleet-does that go with an account at your local gentlemen's outfitters and membership to some club full of ar$eholes. As for type its a 737NG.

Yes I work for a scumbag low cost airline-you know the ones that have ruined your job-the ones that are crap pilots and subject to TV shows.

Each to their own-but don't be coming on this forum call me and my friends whores-and at the risk of being call shallow and playing the mines bigger that yours. I will be mortgage free by 45, private school for two kids and have secured their futures well. All thanks to low cost and the level I have earned at for the past 9 years. So you can stick your benefits-no one will run off with my pension or change my levels of cover. I have watched unions come in-f**ck up and do nothing for low cost.

So believe what you are told to believe but the young men and women that man the low cost "fleets" are amongst be best their is-and produce consistant high standards day in day out-without water, love, food,benefits or unions.

The industry sets the T&Cs not the airline-so pull your finger out-start being productive-stop wasting company money fighting over car park passes-and then maybe you will become a Captain before you need to use rubber pants-let your company get some of the pie-create more jobs-give young people the chance to join your "fleet" and not low cost-AND THEN the 90% pay and stumping up for your type rating will stop!

You see you caused it along with Stan, not me.

You may say sorry now.

[757manipulator]

Yes I work for a scumbag low cost airline-you know the ones that have ruined your job-the ones that are crap pilots and subject to TV shows.

Says it all really, and I suspect sums up your position

[stansdead]

nice touch

Only 130%?

Proves you work for a shower then doesn't it?

You are so vehement in your replies that it is obvious to me that you are a 90%er.

Enjoy your pay cut.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

In common with many threads about easyJet there are some uninformed postings here that really do not address the question. I will endeavour to provide an answer although it will inevitably not be complete. Apologies to readers who may have read an earlier contribution I made to a debate about Rayanair and easyJet as the info is largely a copy of what I wrote there.

The situation for FOs is complex, in that there are different schemes for joining easyJet and your pay depends on which one you join on. I am not a recruiter and therefore cannot tell you exactly which scheme would be offered. I can say, however, that right now we desparately need jet-experienced pilots and therefore if you have an unfrozen ATPL and jet experience you are likely to join as an SFO(2). An SFO(1) is a Senior First Officer who joined before a certain date and would therefore get about £3k more per year - that option no longer exists so if you are not in easyJet now you can ignore it. There are 2 other ways of joining. The first is as a low-houred (200 hours approx) cadet and they are paid very little (1000 net for first 6 months and a bit more after that). It is actually quite a good deal in that people with virtually no experience get a chance to fly a jet which they otherwise would never have the opportunity to do. The other scheme is the dreaded TRSS (Type Rated Sponsorship Scheme) where essentially you get paid £5000 less for the first 5 years to effectively pay off the cost of your type rating. Typically if you have turboprop experience and little or no jet time that is what you would be offered. To complicate matters further you get paid 90% for the first 6 months and if you are employed as a First Officer (ie frozen ATPL) you will be paid less again. As you can see the picture is quite complex.

As I have already stated, easyJet employ FOs under various contracts. Therefore the specific case I am quoting is an SFO(2) - ie unfrozen ATPL and some jet time, after 6 months service and after October 2006. Your basic pay would be £44,740 plus uniform allowance of £208 making £44,948. On top of that you will get £14.18 per sector of which £7.80 is tax free. If you gross that up it is £19.38 per sector. If you work on 500 sectors per year then your effective pre-tax gross would be £55,063. Using Microsoft Money to calculate UK tax and NI, that equates to £3,220 per month net (variable depending on your tax code) assuming you put nothing into the pension scheme. FOs will now all get a one-off annual 'loyalty bonus' payment of 5% of basic after 3 years' service which is worth £1,342 per year net or effectively £112 per month on average (it is paid in a lump sum on the anniversary of joining). SFOs will also receive 7% pension contributions which are worth £3,132 annually into the fund. I hope that helps.

To those of you who think their experience puts them somehow above working for easyJet, I wish you well but am delighted you will not be joining us. My working day is usually spent with top quality FOs who have a great attitude and I would not want that to change. Sure, there are plenty leaving to BA, Virgin etc - but there are also a whole lot more staying. There are a number of problems with working for easyJet, but if we are honest there are problems in working for BMI, BMI Baby, My Travel, Thomson Fly, GB Airways, Monarch, First Choice, Astraeus, Jet2 etc, etc. Although there is clearly a huge amount to be done, I am of the view that the future at easyJet is bright. It is not for everyone, but it is a whole lot better than many out there would have you believe.

[jb5000]

Originally Posted by stansdead

jb5000
debts that have interest and need paying? So the answer to that is to borrow more money?
If so, you are a fool.

So what would you do if you did have a large loan to repay, keeping plugging away at British Airways with your CV and wait paitently doing boring jobs for less pay than you would get at easy? All the while your flying currency slowly degrading.

The trouble is that for every person that would turn down a jet job on T&Cs there will be many more who would step over them and jump in the seat. Your silent protest not registering at easy's HR department because it is, no doubt, ridiculously oversubscribed.

If you don't like the T&Cs then fine but don't moan at other guys that do. They're probably more interested in job satisfaction etc. How long did you say you had to get command?

[ROSCO328]

Norman Stanley Fletcher

Thank you for taking the time to post information. Much appreciated.

[Pizzaro]

With over 4000 hrs total time including 1800 hrs + on the ERJ145 as a Senior First Officer, would I get offered the TRSS.

Many Thanks for any info

Pizzaro

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Pizarro - in all honesty I do not know the answer to your question. Smaller jets like the Embraer are 'on the fringe' in terms of how they are regarded by employers. In the past you would have been offered TRSS but things are a bit more in your favour at present. The best advice I can offer is to fill-in the online application form and attend a recruitment day if they call you. If you are subsequently offered a job, you can take it from there. Best of luck.

[Oleo]

Easyjet are so desperate for crew they are taking on very low houred guys through CTC who have bought their own type rating.

Easy aren't even interviewing these guys.

Unfortunately easy is only offering 4 sim sessions to get them up to speed and this is not proving enough and many are being failed.

Easy would do well to be more expansive (older/turbo-props/instructors) in the people they are targetting.

[Craggenmore]

Oleo,

Easyjet are so desperate for crew they are taking on very low houred guys through CTC who have bought their own type rating. Easy aren't even interviewing these guys.

I think you will find that easyJet have taken low-hour cadets from CTC for about the past decade now. To be successful, each cadet goes through a 4 stage process that culminates with a simulator qualification course consisting of 36 hours in either CTC's Airbus A320 sim or Boeing 737 sim.

Once on the rating, the CTC cadets undertake a full course consisting of, circa, 48 hours in the sim ove 12 sim details, not just the 4 sim sessions that you talk of.

I think that you are confusing the CTC scheme with self funded low hour cadets from other walks of life.

[Pizzaro]

NSF

Cheers for your advice. I may just do that.

Regards

Pizzaro

[The Blue Max]

Correct me if I'm wrong.
I think Oleo is referring to the refresher course offered to those pilots already in the possesion of a a319/737 type-rating.
As a direct entry FO with about 1200 hours on the bus, I did the full interview and then went through this refresher course wich consist of several days tech refresher and 4 4-hour sim sessions. Followed by more groundschool concerning ops procedures, safety, etc.

The whole process takes about 3 weeks and is then followed by 20 sectors line-training.

As I understand, pilots with experience but without type go through the type conversion, wich gets them the full type-rating (currently done by CTC) followed by 40 sectors line-training.
Fresh low houred cadets out of CTC get to do at least 60 sectors after there initial type-rating.

Speculating here,
It maybe so that the mentioned refresher course is also being offerd to "low-houred" pilots who bought there type-rating and finished there line training somewhere else (provided they have the minimum of 500 hours multi-crew commercial environment). In that case 4 sim sessions and 20 sectors line training may not be enough to reach the hight standard required by the trainers.

[Office Pest]

I have applied for a position with easyjet and was told I was to await a call for an interview - that was approximately three months ago. Since then I have E-mailed the company two times just to ask if there was any update on my application and have unfortunately been met with silence. I currently operate the A320/321/330 and would have thought easyjet would have been a little more interested in me if you are to believe all the rumours of them being undercrewed. I await with baited breath.........

Office Pest

[Man Flex 37.5]

I think Oleo is referring to guys that have come via the GECAT scheme. These guys are very low hour people (approx 200 hours total time), they are initially being given 4 X 4 hour sim sessions, many are given extra sim sessions which is quite acceptable when considering their experience. I do not know of any that have failed. Once the sim / ground phase is complete they are given a minimum of 60 sectors line training.
Regarding interviews, they were ALL supposed to be interviewed but I guess circumstances have changed things with guys being asked to start at very short notice and not enough time to interview, there are about 50/50 that I have seen.

[Oleo]

What I was told was that these were guys "off the street" who have got a basic frozen ATPL elsewhere and then bought an A320 type rating on spec from Burgess Hill, where then taken up by eJ on condition of passing, and that quite a few were failing after the four sessions (not surprisingly).

[Bokkenrijder]

Originally Posted by Oleo

Easyjet are so desperate for crew they are taking on very low houred guys through CTC who have bought their own type rating.
Easy aren't even interviewing these guys.

Rumour has it that they are now also recruiting desperate low hour Dutch pilots from an aviation school near Maastricht.

[trainer too 2]

Rumour has it that they are now also recruiting desperate low hour Dutch pilots from an aviation school near Maastricht.

The school you refer to is the NLS part of CAE. The NLS is the same school that supllies pilots with the same amount of hours to HV, KLM, RYR, BA and some smaller operators so what is your point BR?

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

The key thing here is whether some method has been employed to circumvent the standard easyJet recruitment process. This is potentialy open to massive abuse, as if you are looking at low-houred pilots there has to be some central recruitment process which ensures a level playing field. Our cadet scheme is fraught with problems and I hope that a full and thorough analysis of the success, or lack of it, is taking place within easyJet. We are losing about 80% of the cadets we take on within a year to BA and that is simply an abuse of the system. I do not blame the cadets as individuals for pursuing their ambitions, but I certainly feel that we are barking up the wrong tree by recruiting them in the first place. It is a fundamentally unsound process which provides good people who are nonetheless inevitably at the lower end of the FO ability range due to inexperience. After a year or so and with 1000 hours on Boeing or an Airbus they leave and the whole process begins again. I personally know individuals who are low houred but have not gone through CTC and they have a host of excellent experience in the forces and so on - they are frankly much more likely to stay and we should be looking there. The basic system we have for recruitment is that you must have 500 hours multicrew unless you are a cadet. Then you need no relevant experience whatsoever and you can get three times the line training everyone else does and nobody cares.

It is ludicrous to limit your view of low-houred pilots to these folks - there are so many great candidates out there who, unlike the cadets, have had no guarantees whatsover. They have had to beg, borrow and steal to get their licences and are then faced with prejudice against them because they are not 'sponsored' by CTC. A cartel of vested interests has clubbed together in the guise of CTC to prevent easyJet recruiting low-houred pilots unless CTC supply them. It is totally unacceptable, continually leaves easyJet in the lurch and needs to be challenged at every level within the Company until some common sense prevails.

BA must be rubbing their hands in both glee and disbelief. In the past they had to sponsor pilots themselves, put up with their limitations for a couple of years until they become more competent and then eventually they would become the backbone of the company. Now all they have to do, is sit back and wait for applications from CTC cadets who have been given incredibly valuable experience at easyJet in the form of 1000 hours on a Boeing or an Airbus. They then grab loads of young, free, high quality and pre-trained jet pilots for nothing. Sounds like great business sense to me and I don't blame BA one bit. I do, however, blame easyJet for allowing such a ridiculous situation to arise.

[Monarch Man]

All good stuff Norman in regards to Easy's recruitment policies
I'm constantly amazed at the reluctance of the Orange order to recruit people who have a fantastic and far greater base of experience, who ostensibly would cost half the money to train..(line training, sim sessions etc..and with the potential for far earlier command upgrades) than your average spotty nosed 270hr cadet. Yet it seems no matter what happens the vested interest brigade bang on about 500 hours multi-crew as though it is some magic pill that cures all semblance of a GA pilots mentality.
When will they learn the lesson?
I cant help thinking there is more to it than just a recruitment policy....is it that easy are contractually OBLIGED to accept "X" number of cadets each year?
Or is it the case that the glue in the chip-board walls at lala-land has infected the brain stem of the relevant person
Whatever the case may be, easy are missing a trick...to the benefit of others who must be laughing all the way to the bank.