Jet2 Sector Pay?
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Jet2.com only, not Dart Group.
At least there is some enthusiasm around the workforce, Hopefully sometime soon we will be able to channel (ha ha) some of that passion to our benefit.
Having heard nothing to the contrary I assume a time limit of July 31 to assess membership growth in T&G still applies?
At least there is some enthusiasm around the workforce, Hopefully sometime soon we will be able to channel (ha ha) some of that passion to our benefit.
Having heard nothing to the contrary I assume a time limit of July 31 to assess membership growth in T&G still applies?
Last edited by silverhawk; 7th May 2006 at 11:04.
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With the majority of Jet2 pilots being new to the airline world it would be a huge mistake to try and marry this inexperience to an inexperienced union which in term of the TGWU is a fact with regards to airline negotiation.
Silverhawk,
Look at it this way would you let a 2 year old kid teach another two year old kid to cross the road? In effect this is what we are doing with putting our eggs in the TGWU basket.
Why not let the 30 odd year old teach the 2 year old to cross the road, I think you will agree that the outcome will be a little safer to say the least.
You really need to think very long and very hard about what you are proposing, you have apparently been burnt once before by the IPA what’s to say the TGWU aren’t going to do the same.
It isn’t a loss of face to change your mind.
Silverhawk,
Look at it this way would you let a 2 year old kid teach another two year old kid to cross the road? In effect this is what we are doing with putting our eggs in the TGWU basket.
Why not let the 30 odd year old teach the 2 year old to cross the road, I think you will agree that the outcome will be a little safer to say the least.
You really need to think very long and very hard about what you are proposing, you have apparently been burnt once before by the IPA what’s to say the TGWU aren’t going to do the same.
It isn’t a loss of face to change your mind.
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Seems like a good deal at Easy now, but how long has it taken?
Just think where the JET2 terms and conditions could be within a couple of years if you follow the example of airline pilots with established BALPA recognition like BA, Virgin, Thomsonfly, easyJet etc etc etc......
Dream on if you think the T&G is going to do anything beneficial for the pilots. You are going to be dragged into pay deals where your 'high' salary will be pitted against the 'low salaries' of the non-skilled workers. You will have NO muscle to negotiate anything higher for the pilots because no non-skilled workers are going to unite behind the 'Prima-Donna' pilots when they demand increased basic pay, sector pay, duty pay, tighter rostering with block window protection, decent positioning transport, better crew food, medicals paid for, better quality hotel accommodation, structured pay-scales, increased training emoluments, a decent pension scheme, the list goes on and on.
Explain to me which non-pilot members of the T&G would give their reps the FULL SUPPORT and mandate for them to negotiate increases in ANY of the areas mentioned. Can you see a ground based non-skilled worker on a wage not too much above minimum wage backing the call for a Hallmark Mercedes with Chauffeur to position a pilot from Leeds to Manchester? No, neither can I.
Your hopes and dreams of bettering pilot terms and conditions through the T&G are deluded. The non-skilled workers will perceive it to be a better deal for them having the pilots on-side, but it works (or rather doesn't work) the other way around too; how many pilots are going to give the reps their full support over a pay claim for non-skilled staff? Would you be willing to take industrial action for a pound or so an hour on a non-skilled workers basic pay? I mean no offence to the non-skilled workers, but that's what it boils down to. We have different outlooks on life, different perspectives on our working conditions and it is like trying to mix oil and water. You are doomed to failure before you start.
I still wish you good luck though, you'll need it.
PP
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Dear oh dear. Some self appointed figurehead with a history of failure wants to lead us all with the backing of an inappropriate union. He has three months to convince the new, the weak and the gullible to join the T & G and attempt dialogue with management in rosy collusion with cabin crew.
Chump
Chump
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So a Hallmark Mercedes is your idea of importance. I despair.
Re Easy. After YEARS of being crapped on. Exactly my point, not one year.
Just had a letter telling me we have changed Private Health Providers because cost has increased, but level of cover is slightly lower. A change to my contract of employment. This is degredation of our T&Cs. No consultation, just imposed and announced. This will continue until we resist. At the moment we have nowhere to contest such changes.
I joined this company because at the time it was a good move for me individually. What exists now is down to the way things have been allowed to develop. See for yourselves what is going on and do SOMETHING.
I'm way too busy working behind the scenes to spend time bitching on here so as of now,I leave. I will of, course, revisit now and again to see what a couple of individuals have had to say. I think it will just be more words though and little activity to make things happen.
Knobby Halibut---still not called me. I guess you must be on holiday, right?
Re Easy. After YEARS of being crapped on. Exactly my point, not one year.
Just had a letter telling me we have changed Private Health Providers because cost has increased, but level of cover is slightly lower. A change to my contract of employment. This is degredation of our T&Cs. No consultation, just imposed and announced. This will continue until we resist. At the moment we have nowhere to contest such changes.
I joined this company because at the time it was a good move for me individually. What exists now is down to the way things have been allowed to develop. See for yourselves what is going on and do SOMETHING.
I'm way too busy working behind the scenes to spend time bitching on here so as of now,I leave. I will of, course, revisit now and again to see what a couple of individuals have had to say. I think it will just be more words though and little activity to make things happen.
Knobby Halibut---still not called me. I guess you must be on holiday, right?
Last edited by silverhawk; 8th May 2006 at 00:21.
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Originally Posted by silverhawk
So a Hallmark Mercedes is your idea of importance. I despair.
Seems like a good deal at Easy now, but how long has it taken? Easy pushed to the brink over such a long time and they were allowed to. That payrise doesn't look quite so rosy once it is recognised the timescale since the last decent rise.
Your logic just doesn't add up.
I'm way too busy working behind the scenes to spend time bitching on here so as of now,I leave.
If you are trying to become an instigator of pilots uniting to join a union, then you have to answer questions posed about the validity of your reasoning, not run away because you haven't got the time due to 'working behind the scenes'. How many pilots do you think are going to unite in the T&G if you don't effectively sell the idea to them? Answer the questions, tell them why the T&G will be so much better than BALPA, explain just how uniting air and ground staff is going to work and how you are going to achieve increases in pilot terms and conditions without pi**ing off the majority of your (non-pilot) members in the company?
Knobby Halibut---still not called me. I guess you must be on holiday, right?
Stop concentrating on one individual who has a gripe about your past performance and convince your colleagues why the T&G is the correct choice for them. You have thus far completely failed to do that. Try answering the questions I posed in my last post. Good answers to them would see your credibility and the T&G membership levels increase considerably. Convince the sceptics, don't run and hide.
Just had a letter telling me we have changed Private Health Providers because cost has increased, but level of cover is slightly lower. A change to my contract of employment. This is degredation of our T&Cs. No consultation, just imposed and announced. This will continue until we resist. At the moment we have nowhere to contest such changes.
PP
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Pilot pete,
Your post is spot on, Silverhawk has no credibility, in just one post he has proved that he has not learnt a thing form his last companies ecapades.
Yes health insurance has changed provider, yes it is a change to your contract. But more importantly it a further errosion of our T&C's.
We are not now entitled to private treatment if it is available on the NHS within 6 weeks.
Also Silverhawk as well as not answering PP's questions you have not bothered trying to answer mine. Proving that you have no ability to layout a reasoned arguement or substantiate why we should join TGWU.
I also think its best you leave.
757 Operator. Sort yourself out you know none of us are working that hard at the moment. The Leeds lads say your even slacker on the 757.
Your post is spot on, Silverhawk has no credibility, in just one post he has proved that he has not learnt a thing form his last companies ecapades.
Yes health insurance has changed provider, yes it is a change to your contract. But more importantly it a further errosion of our T&C's.
We are not now entitled to private treatment if it is available on the NHS within 6 weeks.
Also Silverhawk as well as not answering PP's questions you have not bothered trying to answer mine. Proving that you have no ability to layout a reasoned arguement or substantiate why we should join TGWU.
I also think its best you leave.
757 Operator. Sort yourself out you know none of us are working that hard at the moment. The Leeds lads say your even slacker on the 757.
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Originally Posted by Ardacre
757 Operator. Sort yourself out you know none of us are working that hard at the moment. The Leeds lads say your even slacker on the 757.
Not true, 757 is operating a more stable pattern I'll grant you but we are not 'slack' I am working a damn site harder than I did on the 737 this time last year! 757 is operating (or at least I am - not enough chockies to BOH) 5 on + 1 sby then 3 off on average. We aren't doing 4 sector days yet although I have done a few AMS/ PRG in lieu of a 737 being available
Edit,
Just got my latest roster and I seem to have 78 block hours over 26 sectors with a steady 5 on 3 off pattern, Not sure how that compares to the LBA 737 guys
Box
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“Do you have married rosters in Jet2? It's just that maat and ardacre often seem to be online together and sing from the same hymn sheet”
You have a point, but there are lots of posters on this thread with a similar point of view to mine. The only consistently odd one out seems to be silverhawk, who has assumed the mantle of father figure in MAN and is busy spreading the delusion amongst the naïve here.
I noticed MANBLK started a thread elsewhere asking for DHL pilots to give feedback on the progress of the T & G’s negotiations in that company. From what I can gather DHL management refuse to recognise the T & G and there appears to be deadlock. Have DHL got 50% + 1 T & G membership or not? Because if so, the T & G should by now have broken that deadlock. Before silverhawk heralds DHL as a shining example of how pilots and cabin crew can work together, it should be remembered that DHL don’t have…
It's odd that people have similar rosters, therefore similar time off. There are people here with more than 12 months on line that I have never flown with and others who I fly with regularly. There are destinations we fly to I have never been rostered for and there are other destinations I go to every week. Perhaps the T & G will sort it out for me?
You have a point, but there are lots of posters on this thread with a similar point of view to mine. The only consistently odd one out seems to be silverhawk, who has assumed the mantle of father figure in MAN and is busy spreading the delusion amongst the naïve here.
I noticed MANBLK started a thread elsewhere asking for DHL pilots to give feedback on the progress of the T & G’s negotiations in that company. From what I can gather DHL management refuse to recognise the T & G and there appears to be deadlock. Have DHL got 50% + 1 T & G membership or not? Because if so, the T & G should by now have broken that deadlock. Before silverhawk heralds DHL as a shining example of how pilots and cabin crew can work together, it should be remembered that DHL don’t have…
It's odd that people have similar rosters, therefore similar time off. There are people here with more than 12 months on line that I have never flown with and others who I fly with regularly. There are destinations we fly to I have never been rostered for and there are other destinations I go to every week. Perhaps the T & G will sort it out for me?
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Well, I seem to be posting quite often on this thread and I am not even in the same company as the 'twins'
, but I am still singing from the same song sheet....
I also used to work for DHL Air UK, before the T & G it must be said. It was a good job in that it payed the bills, was as solid as rock (no fluctuations in pax due to world events and perceived terrorist 'risk'!) and they have a very nice UK base in EMA, etc etc. BUT, and it's a big but, you went away for 5 or 6 nights off round Europe and the only timings that were rigid on the roster were the start and end times of the 'tour'. The rest was irrelevant as their operation required constant change to make it work. This wasn't a problem, but the constant nights takes its toll and requires a certain 'type' to fit in. Many, many guys who were there when I joined have now left, I have even seen a name of a former colleague appear on our latest seniority list some 3 years after I joined.
The pay was ok, the pension crap and there wasn't much else to it. If the T & G can get a better package there then good luck to them, but it wasn't a career airline then and isn't going to be one no matter what they (or anyone else) does. You flew about 300hrs a year but clocked up as many duty hours as a charter or low-cost pilot, spending many an hour in a smokey crew room somewhere around the network in the wee hours. If you have kids (or get them) it's a nightmare as you never see them and when you do you are jet-lagged. I know captains there still who are looking to leave.
Holding DHL up as a shining example to Jet2 guys of the benefits of T & G membership I am afraid is a non-starter, pretty much like the T & G have been thus far in DHL. Nothing has changed since I was there from what I hear.
PP
, but I am still singing from the same song sheet....I also used to work for DHL Air UK, before the T & G it must be said. It was a good job in that it payed the bills, was as solid as rock (no fluctuations in pax due to world events and perceived terrorist 'risk'!) and they have a very nice UK base in EMA, etc etc. BUT, and it's a big but, you went away for 5 or 6 nights off round Europe and the only timings that were rigid on the roster were the start and end times of the 'tour'. The rest was irrelevant as their operation required constant change to make it work. This wasn't a problem, but the constant nights takes its toll and requires a certain 'type' to fit in. Many, many guys who were there when I joined have now left, I have even seen a name of a former colleague appear on our latest seniority list some 3 years after I joined.
The pay was ok, the pension crap and there wasn't much else to it. If the T & G can get a better package there then good luck to them, but it wasn't a career airline then and isn't going to be one no matter what they (or anyone else) does. You flew about 300hrs a year but clocked up as many duty hours as a charter or low-cost pilot, spending many an hour in a smokey crew room somewhere around the network in the wee hours. If you have kids (or get them) it's a nightmare as you never see them and when you do you are jet-lagged. I know captains there still who are looking to leave.
Holding DHL up as a shining example to Jet2 guys of the benefits of T & G membership I am afraid is a non-starter, pretty much like the T & G have been thus far in DHL. Nothing has changed since I was there from what I hear.
PP
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Originally Posted by maat
It's odd that people have similar rosters, therefore similar time off. There are people here with more than 12 months on line that I have never flown with and others who I fly with regularly. There are destinations we fly to I have never been rostered for and there are other destinations I go to every week. Perhaps the T & G will sort it out for me?[/COLOR][/FONT]
Boxjockey - 78 hrs and 26 sectors, you should have stuck to the 737 mate and moved to MAN. My roster 22 May to 18 June has 16 sectors and 42 hours! And to those of you who consistantly knock Jet2, that's the reason most of us are really quite ok about working here. Sure, some things could be better, but i don't think I've exceeded much above 50 hours/month since last summer, and even then I bet I didn't do much above 70 hours in any of those "busy" months.
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Originally Posted by Johnny F@rt Pants
Sure, some things could be better, but i don't think I've exceeded much above 50 hours/month since last summer, and even then I bet I didn't do much above 70 hours in any of those "busy" months.
Seasoned airline pilot representatives use productivity increases to get pay rises, perhaps that's a tack your representatives could use when they get elected?
PP
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Pilot Pete
T&G not yet @ DHL Air, only a matter of time I guess.
Duty hrs about a 1000 a year max so probably 35-50% less than a loco boy on the presumption that loco's are worked up to the limit of 2000 as per the working time directive. If you include time in the Hotel whilst away then yes the figure is higher.
Time seeing kids, depends I guess, can't compare with your airline as you seem to have an easy ride for a loco, but I guess against the likes of EZY the guys see their kids more (on the basis that even a loco Pilot won't see his kids at 0400 in the am when he goes to work, and night stops etc). They certainly seem to get more days off, leave, contactables, weekends off than the norm and every Public Holiday most of the flights get canned. I think things have changed a bit since you were there, except the BRU crew room.
Career airline - not at the moment, Captains looking to leave, yep but thats life, just look elsewhere on pprune. Moral is on a dip.
Turnover was and is still very low, recruitment nil apart from replacing your new colleague. Cant be all that bad, never chew the hand that fed you.
I suspect however this is going to change
T&G not yet @ DHL Air, only a matter of time I guess.
Duty hrs about a 1000 a year max so probably 35-50% less than a loco boy on the presumption that loco's are worked up to the limit of 2000 as per the working time directive. If you include time in the Hotel whilst away then yes the figure is higher.
Time seeing kids, depends I guess, can't compare with your airline as you seem to have an easy ride for a loco, but I guess against the likes of EZY the guys see their kids more (on the basis that even a loco Pilot won't see his kids at 0400 in the am when he goes to work, and night stops etc). They certainly seem to get more days off, leave, contactables, weekends off than the norm and every Public Holiday most of the flights get canned. I think things have changed a bit since you were there, except the BRU crew room.
Career airline - not at the moment, Captains looking to leave, yep but thats life, just look elsewhere on pprune. Moral is on a dip.
Turnover was and is still very low, recruitment nil apart from replacing your new colleague. Cant be all that bad, never chew the hand that fed you.
I suspect however this is going to change
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Originally Posted by 757operator
Do you have married rosters in Jet2? It's just that maat and ardacre often seem to be online together and sing from the same hymnsheet.
I hoped it was obvious that my comment about Ardacre and Maat was a hint that they could be the same person, with little deceptive tactics like trying to use a different font and introducing typos. One of them suddenly arrived from nowhere when this thread started and they wouldn’t have got so far without backing each other up. And now suddenly Boeingmann has made his first ever post, very convenient. On the BALPA side, only Pilot Pete seems to be the genuine article.
I’ll not make the mistake of judging the pros and cons of BALPA and TGWU, but these BALPA supporters are not an impressive preview of the CC you could get - aggressive, dismissive and rude. These might seem admirable qualities to fight your difficult management but it won’t get them very far. To do business effectively you have to respect your opponent and that works both ways.
Silverhawk was hoping for a 31st July deadline for joining TGWU but I would think this whole thread has left a sour taste in everyone’s mouth so I don’t suppose it will happen. I can’t see many joining BALPA either, after these tantrums from their apparent multitude of supporters. Silverhawk was simply doing what he thought was best to get something going, a starting point, maybe misguided maybe not. Then in comes the BALPA “crowd” and trash it mercilessly, but without any plan of their own other than repeating their mantra “BALPA is best”.
Well done boys, Jet2 is now heading for no union at all, unless the BALPA guys offer some palatable leadership and that isn’t looking likely. Quote Ardacre, “PM will be opening the Bolly”. Well he certainly will be now, and toasting Ardacre and his cronies.
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'Self elected, self appointed, father figure at MAN'. Maat, ardacre, boeingmann these are your words.
No-one has been appointed/elected anywhere.
It's a shame pprune admin are over stretched. We could really use a private forum to eradicate posters who are not interested in taking our company forward.
Someone posted that I should go find another job because there are plenty of jobs out there. I know that there are. My phone goes at least twice a week with offers of decent jobs on every part of the globe. Fact is I like THIS job. That's why I want it to improve it and become the sort of job people aspire to have.
I'm under no illusion. Management know who I am. They also know that I am sincere. As do my colleagues. This is not a crusade for silverhawk. This is a tool to maximise the benefits for Jet2 employees and for Jet2.
Still lurking.
No-one has been appointed/elected anywhere.
It's a shame pprune admin are over stretched. We could really use a private forum to eradicate posters who are not interested in taking our company forward.
Someone posted that I should go find another job because there are plenty of jobs out there. I know that there are. My phone goes at least twice a week with offers of decent jobs on every part of the globe. Fact is I like THIS job. That's why I want it to improve it and become the sort of job people aspire to have.
I'm under no illusion. Management know who I am. They also know that I am sincere. As do my colleagues. This is not a crusade for silverhawk. This is a tool to maximise the benefits for Jet2 employees and for Jet2.
Still lurking.