SAS Pilots on strike
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The SAS strike is not an attempt to run the company.
It is damage control.
During the last 4 years, 800 pilot jobs has disappeared from SAS. These jobs have been outsourced to cheaper labour - Finish, Estonian, Spanish etc... pilots. At the same time SAS Airline has been forced to pay for the maintenance and handling costs for these companies. Spanair has only paid 1/3 for maintenance on an MD80 as SAS.
The management, have made a necessary cost reuction of almost 12 billion Danish kroners - they did a good job with this. The company is starting to make money, and prognoses tell of huge profits this year.
However, the company take opportunity to do union busting. The deal of sending the MD90 to Blue1 and then crew them with contract pilots is very provocative. We are not going to accept this.
The pilot job is not that glamorous any more, and we certainly do not want working conditions to deterioate any more.
And Scandinavianpilot - How many times over the last 30 years have the pilots actually went on a strike? To my knowlegde they only had a 2 hour strike two years ago, because the management was trying to screw the pilots in connection with the Braathens merger..Other from that - Nothing. Other labour groups in SAS have had many strikes, but not the pilots.
So therefor, before making stupid statements about the pilots in SAS, you should get your background knowledge rigth. You either sound like a pilot wannabee or a pilot who did not pass the SAS assesment.
Brgds
SE210
It is damage control.
During the last 4 years, 800 pilot jobs has disappeared from SAS. These jobs have been outsourced to cheaper labour - Finish, Estonian, Spanish etc... pilots. At the same time SAS Airline has been forced to pay for the maintenance and handling costs for these companies. Spanair has only paid 1/3 for maintenance on an MD80 as SAS.
The management, have made a necessary cost reuction of almost 12 billion Danish kroners - they did a good job with this. The company is starting to make money, and prognoses tell of huge profits this year.
However, the company take opportunity to do union busting. The deal of sending the MD90 to Blue1 and then crew them with contract pilots is very provocative. We are not going to accept this.
The pilot job is not that glamorous any more, and we certainly do not want working conditions to deterioate any more.
And Scandinavianpilot - How many times over the last 30 years have the pilots actually went on a strike? To my knowlegde they only had a 2 hour strike two years ago, because the management was trying to screw the pilots in connection with the Braathens merger..Other from that - Nothing. Other labour groups in SAS have had many strikes, but not the pilots.
So therefor, before making stupid statements about the pilots in SAS, you should get your background knowledge rigth. You either sound like a pilot wannabee or a pilot who did not pass the SAS assesment.
Brgds
SE210
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: EUropa
Age: 49
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A rotten apple?
Originally Posted by SE210
You either sound like a pilot wannabee or a pilot who did not pass the SAS assesment.
You either sound like a pilot wannabee or a pilot who did not pass the SAS assesment.
It's just sad.
Scando, I sympathise and I understand. I'm tired of all the naive do-gooders' opinions regarding industrial action. There are many people in many industries who are now getting shafted to the maximum - only to see the managers walking off into the sunset with their bonuses, leaving the carnage of their incompetence behind them. It seems to be going the same way where I work. I think we're going to see a lot more industrial unrest in the coming months/years if current management principles remain in force.
To those of you affected by industrial disputes, don't blame the strikers, blame those in charge.
To those of you affected by industrial disputes, don't blame the strikers, blame those in charge.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 52
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a pilot with a large British Airline - I am acutely aware of erosion of Terms and Conditions and whole heartedly support those Scandy pilots taking the stance of 'enough is enough' Having been lied to repeatedly over the years by management - I have utmost respect for guys and gals who are prepared to stand up for their way of life and their standard of living. Good luck to you all.
Oh and watch this space!!.....................
Oh and watch this space!!.....................
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: the edge of my seat
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having been on strike not that long ago I can assure all it is not a decision that is entered into lightly - it is the weapon of last choice. I wish you all the best of luck and remember it is essential to stick together.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: ex Hong Kong
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a survivor (with my integrity intact, but my job and my homeland gone) of the 89 pilots dispute in Australia - I can sympathise with the predicament of the SAS pilots.
My advice to you is simple. Take no notice of the criticism you may see here, or elsewhere. Other people do not understand the true nature of your position. They do not understand your dispute. But, hell they talk loud...
You should hope for the best but expect the worst. I have lived abroard now for 16 years now - but I don't regret what we did. At least we tried. Admittedly, we tried and died. But at least we tried.
Outsiders will call you
Good luck to you. I fear for you, but I hope for you. If our colleagues and brethren the world over stood-up as you have, our career might regain some of the lost ground of the past 10 years.
My advice to you is simple. Take no notice of the criticism you may see here, or elsewhere. Other people do not understand the true nature of your position. They do not understand your dispute. But, hell they talk loud...
You should hope for the best but expect the worst. I have lived abroard now for 16 years now - but I don't regret what we did. At least we tried. Admittedly, we tried and died. But at least we tried.
Outsiders will call you
- Greedy
- Arrogant
- Self-Interested
- Naive
- Stupid
- etc
Good luck to you. I fear for you, but I hope for you. If our colleagues and brethren the world over stood-up as you have, our career might regain some of the lost ground of the past 10 years.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denmark
Age: 56
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not know the background for this strike in detail, and I am sure that there is a good reason for the strike - but I think the SAS pilots should plan this action a bit better, so as not to have the stike have such a negative effect on the innocent passengers that are held as "hostages" in all this.
You need to announce the stike date publicly ahead of time so passenger will have a real option of making alternative travel plans.
This will be an equally powerfull weapon against the management, but with less collateral damage.
Think about the consequences this could have for the innocent passengers, ruined hollidays, missed meetings, lost deals etc.
The timing is really really bad, since Thursday night we had lots of snow/wind and freezing drizzle in Copenhagen, and ther were lots and lots of cancellations over the weekend, with thousands of passegers stranded in CPH. They were all expecting to fly out on Monday now the weather had improved.
But then the pilots went on strike - I understand the pilots, but couldnt they have waited a week - I feel sorry for the passengers.
You need to announce the stike date publicly ahead of time so passenger will have a real option of making alternative travel plans.
This will be an equally powerfull weapon against the management, but with less collateral damage.
Think about the consequences this could have for the innocent passengers, ruined hollidays, missed meetings, lost deals etc.
The timing is really really bad, since Thursday night we had lots of snow/wind and freezing drizzle in Copenhagen, and ther were lots and lots of cancellations over the weekend, with thousands of passegers stranded in CPH. They were all expecting to fly out on Monday now the weather had improved.
But then the pilots went on strike - I understand the pilots, but couldnt they have waited a week - I feel sorry for the passengers.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Strike?
This action is about splitting up SAS into three national companies; SASBraathens in Norway, SAS Denmark and SAS Sweden + SAS International (longhaul), thus breaking up the long standing common seniority list the SAS pilots has had for some 50 years+.
I may or may not agree with this, but it is only the Danish pilots that has gone on strike - an illegal strike at that, but still they stand up for their cause. You gotta give them credit for taking responsability for their own actions.
The Norwegian pilots has only called in sick. They will not admit it is a organized effort, and are in my opinion acting as cowardly as the Swedes.
The Swedish pilots aren't doing anything, they're out flying as if nothing is happening in Denmark and Norway, but rest assure they will be there to harvest the fruits of the Danish strike if they get it their way. They are simply acting like Swedes - securing both ways out (like they did in 1940-45).
I do agree with them in one thing. SAS management is arrogant and filled with tons of deadmeat doing what they can to employ themselves. Its in SAS numerous posh offices that money can be saved....not on the flight line.
I may or may not agree with this, but it is only the Danish pilots that has gone on strike - an illegal strike at that, but still they stand up for their cause. You gotta give them credit for taking responsability for their own actions.
The Norwegian pilots has only called in sick. They will not admit it is a organized effort, and are in my opinion acting as cowardly as the Swedes.
The Swedish pilots aren't doing anything, they're out flying as if nothing is happening in Denmark and Norway, but rest assure they will be there to harvest the fruits of the Danish strike if they get it their way. They are simply acting like Swedes - securing both ways out (like they did in 1940-45).
I do agree with them in one thing. SAS management is arrogant and filled with tons of deadmeat doing what they can to employ themselves. Its in SAS numerous posh offices that money can be saved....not on the flight line.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: SWEDEN
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Doing the right thing?
facelac, freightdog, Jack Pot
It´s obvious that you think you are doing the right thing. Even if I don´t agree there is no point in arguing about is. Your ears may be closed (and mouths open).
The passengers are paying your (and mine) salary. To go on a "vild strejk" without prior notice to our pax is:
1. Illegal
2. Tremendous worries to our pax
3. Extreamely bad publicity for the pilotcorps in SAS
Your headman and vice headman pleaded to you mondays to go out fly. You voted for them earlier.
And: Please stop send me sms:es
It´s obvious that you think you are doing the right thing. Even if I don´t agree there is no point in arguing about is. Your ears may be closed (and mouths open).
The passengers are paying your (and mine) salary. To go on a "vild strejk" without prior notice to our pax is:
1. Illegal
2. Tremendous worries to our pax
3. Extreamely bad publicity for the pilotcorps in SAS
Your headman and vice headman pleaded to you mondays to go out fly. You voted for them earlier.
And: Please stop send me sms:es
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 1998
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On Norwegian radio: SAS management has blocked the company phones of those SAS pilots who are union leaders. SAS management has apparently also taken down the company website for the pilots.
The papers write that the ex Braathes (now part of SASBraathens) work as usual, while it's the ex SAS pilots who are reporting that due to the extreme unrest and instability, they are not fit for flight.
They are for example not faking influenza.
In the Norwegian system, an employee can be legally off sick for 3 days on a "egenmelding", a 'self declaration'. After 3 days, the employee has to get a sickie from their regular GP. An employee can be called in to the company medics.
According to a SAS pilot I spoke with today, the crux is that the company has suddenly and without negotiation decided to change the employment contarcts for the pilots. From being employed by SAS international (Danish, Swedish, Norwegian company) SAS now wants to employ their pilots by national entities.
The papers write that the ex Braathes (now part of SASBraathens) work as usual, while it's the ex SAS pilots who are reporting that due to the extreme unrest and instability, they are not fit for flight.
They are for example not faking influenza.
In the Norwegian system, an employee can be legally off sick for 3 days on a "egenmelding", a 'self declaration'. After 3 days, the employee has to get a sickie from their regular GP. An employee can be called in to the company medics.
According to a SAS pilot I spoke with today, the crux is that the company has suddenly and without negotiation decided to change the employment contarcts for the pilots. From being employed by SAS international (Danish, Swedish, Norwegian company) SAS now wants to employ their pilots by national entities.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EU
Age: 43
Posts: 364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just in "Dagens Nyheter" todays news in sweden that SAS is taking all the pilot organizations to court. They demand that the strike be called illigal and that all the pilots who are on strike go right back to work and aditionally pay an amout of 10'000 SKR (about 1000 Euro). They are also listing all the pilots by name. They are not makeing any difference between if the pilots are danish or norwegian or swedish...
Here's the news in Swedish:
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.j...usRenderType=6
Here's the news in Swedish:
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.j...usRenderType=6
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Lux
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pain in the Butt
You either sound like a pilot wannabee or a pilot who did not pass the SAS assesment.
I wouldn't even call "ScandinavianPilot"'s statement arrogant as SE210. Arrogant is what managment in SAS shows towards the pilots. "Scandinavianpilot" is just having a pain in the butt.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Your strike seems to carry several of the characteristic trademarks our Airline Dispute of 1989 in Australia bore
The companies also declared our tactics unlawful which then gave them the legal grounds on which to apply (successfully) for the cancellation of our current work agreements.
We were ordered to go back to work
The Prime Minister (who was best of mates with Rupert Murdoch, and Peter Abeles - joint owners of Ansett) wanted to JAIL us.
The companies started issuing writs on individual pilots for "unspecified damages", due to flight cancellations on which those pilots were scheduled. Our union was served a $7 million writ, as was each one of the union`s pricipal members. (None of those were ever actioned.)
From that experience, I believe we were not a aggressive as we should have been, in presenting OUR side of the story to ALL the media.
Let the media know HOW the management have shafted you.
Make the salary packages of the management very public.
Hold regular meetings - split into sub groups of say 10 or 12 to help each other out.
Don`t doubt that the company wants ALL of YOU back - this is why they are taking drastic measures now, to try to create a trickle (back) that they hope will turn to a flood.
What they (the companies) still seem have not learnt, is that the more pressure they apply to pilots, the more determined we become in seeing an EQUITABLE solution being achieved.
If a few SAS top management are unable to negotiate with hundreds of their employees, then it is time the few were replaced with people who are.
SAS is taking all the pilot organizations to court. They demand that the strike be called illigal and that all the pilots who are on strike go right back to work and aditionally pay an amout of 10'000 SKR (about 1000 Euro). They are also listing all the pilots by name.
We were ordered to go back to work
The Prime Minister (who was best of mates with Rupert Murdoch, and Peter Abeles - joint owners of Ansett) wanted to JAIL us.
The companies started issuing writs on individual pilots for "unspecified damages", due to flight cancellations on which those pilots were scheduled. Our union was served a $7 million writ, as was each one of the union`s pricipal members. (None of those were ever actioned.)
From that experience, I believe we were not a aggressive as we should have been, in presenting OUR side of the story to ALL the media.
Let the media know HOW the management have shafted you.
Make the salary packages of the management very public.
Hold regular meetings - split into sub groups of say 10 or 12 to help each other out.
Don`t doubt that the company wants ALL of YOU back - this is why they are taking drastic measures now, to try to create a trickle (back) that they hope will turn to a flood.
What they (the companies) still seem have not learnt, is that the more pressure they apply to pilots, the more determined we become in seeing an EQUITABLE solution being achieved.
If a few SAS top management are unable to negotiate with hundreds of their employees, then it is time the few were replaced with people who are.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a private pilot and sales manager for a large danish medical company I use SAS frequently. Quite frequently to be honest! One of my hobbies are private flying (I actually never dreamed of being a pilot full time, although flying a big jet must be fun) so I also follow the pilot world and SAS with great interest.
The desire from the SAS-management is equivalent to that of many other companies: Large bureaucratic organisations doesn't produce efficient, and they will ultimately die in the competition with other companies producing a smarter way.
As far as I know pilots and other employers in SAS has for long asked for less administration and more clear management. In other words, they would like to get rid of HQ in Stockholm. So why do they as the only group maintain relationship to the HQ, requiring someone to sit in Stockholm to negotiate their deal. Why don't they want a responsible management in their own country? That's how we do in my company, which has offices all over europe.
Well, I had to cancel a meeting in Dusseldorf this week and I'm sure that the pilots are sorry on my behalf. My company has lost several meetings, but it is always incredible that you manage to establish net-meetings instead.
I just don't understand how people with a huge salary go on strike because they as the rest of the world cannot get 100% jobsecurity. I actually think that the company in general will grow smaller much faster, if the administration is not eliminated now!
I really hope that the SAS I know will exist because I actually like the services they provide. And I have always thought that SAS-pilots did a good job. But I must say again, that I find it a bit stiff-upper-lip.
Good luck to all, and sorry if I was to rude to anyone, didn't mean to. Just wanted to express my opinion.
Peter
The desire from the SAS-management is equivalent to that of many other companies: Large bureaucratic organisations doesn't produce efficient, and they will ultimately die in the competition with other companies producing a smarter way.
As far as I know pilots and other employers in SAS has for long asked for less administration and more clear management. In other words, they would like to get rid of HQ in Stockholm. So why do they as the only group maintain relationship to the HQ, requiring someone to sit in Stockholm to negotiate their deal. Why don't they want a responsible management in their own country? That's how we do in my company, which has offices all over europe.
Well, I had to cancel a meeting in Dusseldorf this week and I'm sure that the pilots are sorry on my behalf. My company has lost several meetings, but it is always incredible that you manage to establish net-meetings instead.
I just don't understand how people with a huge salary go on strike because they as the rest of the world cannot get 100% jobsecurity. I actually think that the company in general will grow smaller much faster, if the administration is not eliminated now!
I really hope that the SAS I know will exist because I actually like the services they provide. And I have always thought that SAS-pilots did a good job. But I must say again, that I find it a bit stiff-upper-lip.
Good luck to all, and sorry if I was to rude to anyone, didn't mean to. Just wanted to express my opinion.
Peter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
according to danish wire service ritzau the pilots have decided to start flying again, apparently responding to a threat of each individual pilot being confronted by sas and asked whether s/he is willing to fly. according to a pilot spokesperson this move would indicate a willingness to fire the pilots if they give the "wrong" answer and the pilot union does not want to risk this happening to their members...
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Norway
Age: 67
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sweden-Norway-Danmark
I belive that SAS management is right here. Why should Swedish pilots be as well paid as Norwegian-Danish? The cost of living in Sweden is lesser than in Norway same goes for Denmark. If you purchase a car like Mercedes in Sweden you pay approximately 200 000 less in Sweden than in Denmark or Norway! The idea of 3 national companies is good, where pilots would be hired locally. I don’t understand why Danish and Norwegian pilots don’t work, Swedish does. And they are the only which would benefit from “same” salaries as Norwegian and Danish pilots.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: North of the 49th parallel, eh!
Posts: 219
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I belive that SAS management is right here. Why should Swedish pilots be as well paid as Norwegian-Danish? The cost of living in Sweden is lesser than in Norway same goes for Denmark.
My full support goes to the SAS pilots. How can you possibly put the pressure on management without "taking the traveling public hostage". That's the whole idea. I don't think the traveling public gives a rats ass about my T&C's just as I couldn't care less about what the average widget maker makes.
Final thought. This was a sick out right? How does one get his name published and how does one get to be asked point blank by the company about his ability to fly? If the law allows you three days of grace for being sick, then I personally would make myself extremely scarce for the next 72 hours.