BA pilots 'prepared to strike'?
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's going to be a long play. Don't expect big news from BALPA for a while.
However, there may still be an interesting summer ahead for the cabin crew.....
However, there may still be an interesting summer ahead for the cabin crew.....
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed - cabin crew morale is rock bottom and sinking fast - with the new unworkable sickness policy, the pension position, already ludicrous handbaggage limits set to rise by 400% next month,inexcusable delays caused by overzealous 'efficiencies' - which in the end cost more - and the ever present threat of yet more new (unworkable) working practices etc . . I don't think BA fully realise how close the crew are going to get soon too.
Everything falls on deaf ears, yet more propoganda is churned out, and a current situation involving a crew that allegedly were way out of hours being disciplined is fast making the crews realisation of how much they are truly valued, plummet......
Nobody wants a summer of discontent - but BA certainly like to push their luck causing untold stress and uncertainty among its crew and customers.
Will they EVER learn . . . . . . . . .
Everything falls on deaf ears, yet more propoganda is churned out, and a current situation involving a crew that allegedly were way out of hours being disciplined is fast making the crews realisation of how much they are truly valued, plummet......
Nobody wants a summer of discontent - but BA certainly like to push their luck causing untold stress and uncertainty among its crew and customers.
Will they EVER learn . . . . . . . . .
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Camp X-Ray
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a current situation involving a crew that allegedly were way out of hours being disciplined
PPRuNe Person
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BTSM
This is the company 'asking for a favour' from the pilots.
Measured against the background of the pension issue, it will be interesting to see what happens.
BALPA officials are now expressing privately that the 'threat' of a strike means nothing to Willie Walsh.
Interpret that as you wish....but I'm putting money in my piggy bank and downgrading my car for the short term...
This is the company 'asking for a favour' from the pilots.
Measured against the background of the pension issue, it will be interesting to see what happens.
BALPA officials are now expressing privately that the 'threat' of a strike means nothing to Willie Walsh.
Interpret that as you wish....but I'm putting money in my piggy bank and downgrading my car for the short term...
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 459
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May be WW can pull a rabbit out of the hat like the Royal Mail has just done, every £1 Gordon B puts in, he gets £5 out later.
.
Simple fact is, the more money Joe public puts into looking after his/her pension, the more Gordon will take it away, I wish it was a joke, but its not.!!!
.
Simple fact is, the more money Joe public puts into looking after his/her pension, the more Gordon will take it away, I wish it was a joke, but its not.!!!
Paxing All Over The World
BA 'could sell Air Miles to fund £1.8bn pensions shortfall'
BA 'could sell Air Miles to fund £1.8bn pensions shortfall'
The Independent By Philip Thornton Published: 24 July 2006
British Airways is mulling the sale of its Air Miles customer loyalty scheme to help fill a pensions deficit that could be twice as big as first thought, according to reports at the weekend.
The shortfall in its retirement fund has almost doubled to nearly £1.8bn, according to new valuation being carried out by actuaries, one said. It is understood that Watson Wyatt have revised an initial estimate of £928m to just under £1.8bn in a move that could force the airline to inject more cash into the fund.
The article continues with another three paragraphs
The Independent By Philip Thornton Published: 24 July 2006
British Airways is mulling the sale of its Air Miles customer loyalty scheme to help fill a pensions deficit that could be twice as big as first thought, according to reports at the weekend.
The shortfall in its retirement fund has almost doubled to nearly £1.8bn, according to new valuation being carried out by actuaries, one said. It is understood that Watson Wyatt have revised an initial estimate of £928m to just under £1.8bn in a move that could force the airline to inject more cash into the fund.
The article continues with another three paragraphs
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 119
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have to question what is going on when the actuaries initial estimate is half what the final figure is. Don't know much about this business but that seems an excessive difference.
Better to flog airmiles, than flog the rest of the company to death.
Better to flog airmiles, than flog the rest of the company to death.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ex-actuary speaking. Shortfalls in insurance and pension funds are the difference between two extremely large numbers:
the value of the fund - this is known pretty accurately, although some items (such as commercial property) may be estimated. Stock prices can, of course, change rapidly, particularly where hedge funds are involved.
the present value of the future liabilities - this is calculated with great precision, but based on estimates of such things as interest rates in 20 years time. What appears to be a very small change in these underlying assumptions (e.g. 0.25% in the interest rate) can make a big difference to the final answer. When you subtract that answer from the fund value (which, in an ideal world, should be at least approximately equal to value of the liabilities), you can get what appear to be (and, in fact, are) huge swings.
Hope this helps
PV
(Hence the joke about the actuary who was asked "what is two times two". Answer - it all depends, what would you like it to be?)
the value of the fund - this is known pretty accurately, although some items (such as commercial property) may be estimated. Stock prices can, of course, change rapidly, particularly where hedge funds are involved.
the present value of the future liabilities - this is calculated with great precision, but based on estimates of such things as interest rates in 20 years time. What appears to be a very small change in these underlying assumptions (e.g. 0.25% in the interest rate) can make a big difference to the final answer. When you subtract that answer from the fund value (which, in an ideal world, should be at least approximately equal to value of the liabilities), you can get what appear to be (and, in fact, are) huge swings.
Hope this helps
PV
(Hence the joke about the actuary who was asked "what is two times two". Answer - it all depends, what would you like it to be?)
PPRuNe Person
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To follow on from Pax Vobiscum's knowledgeable posting:
The £1.8bn figure was probably from a BA press office deliberate 'leak' which the papers appear to have swallowed wholesale.
The value of the assets in the fund has just been published at £5846m. The liabilities are of course not known, but working forward from earlier figures, it is quite possible that the fund is now actually in surplus.
BA are masterminding a gigantic con trick on their long-serving employees in order to feather the nests of a few management fly-by-nights.
The £1.8bn figure was probably from a BA press office deliberate 'leak' which the papers appear to have swallowed wholesale.
The value of the assets in the fund has just been published at £5846m. The liabilities are of course not known, but working forward from earlier figures, it is quite possible that the fund is now actually in surplus.
BA are masterminding a gigantic con trick on their long-serving employees in order to feather the nests of a few management fly-by-nights.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 724
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The liabilities are of course not known, but working forward from earlier figures, it is quite possible that the fund is now actually in surplus.
Yes, it may have shrunk, but have you not noticed how the markets have moved? They are not magic!
PPRuNe Person
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: see roster
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You are living on cloud cuckoo land matey.
Cleverer people than (you? &) I are looking into this as we speak. Do you understand that we are dealing with projections?
based on estimates of such things as interest rates in 20 years time
BTW, you're not related to the Prince of Darkness, are you? Or perhaps BA management?
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So can we have a poll as to how many people think that the £1.8bn deficit is genuine?
The actuaries will come up with whatever answer their employers tell them to come up with.
The actuaries will come up with whatever answer their employers tell them to come up with.