99% of easyjet pilots reject pay offer
we take the view that fuel surcharges are, well, terribly un-British.
2) EEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR.......... isn't your airline Irish?
Thread Starter
This is a thread that I started concerning the EASYJET pay offer. It was not intended to become a thread bickering about Ryanair or any other company. If you want to continue in this fashion, please do so by starting another thread: if this thread becomes hijacked I will delete it.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Because the company passed a load of B*""$&!^ dressed as an "honsest" offer !!!! and it was not until we got our calculators and past pay slips out did we reveal the truth. Even then not all of us are financial wizards and we often came up with differing views depending on which buttons we pushed. Also these guys and girls are doing this in their spare time, unpaid and after completing an easyjet roster. Now if you think you can do better stand for election next time.
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Completely agree with F&B!
I´m also gonna vote NO, but I´m still very disappointed by the lack of guidance of BALPA regarding this.
In the past managment have proven to be a very untrustworthy negotiating partner (5-2-5-4 springs to mind...) so recommending this ´generous´ offer without even getting out their calculators has proved to be a huge blunder and incredibly naive!
I appreciate the hard work that the CC do, but it´s very unfortunate that they painted themselfs into this corner by recommending this deal without first having presented it to the members. If they would have done so, they would have saved themselfs a lot of work and embarrasment as hundreds of critical members see more potential loopholes/flaws than an overworked CC.
They could have let their members do a lot of number crunching work for them and at the same time improve the communication towards it´s members in doing so.
I´m also gonna vote NO, but I´m still very disappointed by the lack of guidance of BALPA regarding this.
In the past managment have proven to be a very untrustworthy negotiating partner (5-2-5-4 springs to mind...) so recommending this ´generous´ offer without even getting out their calculators has proved to be a huge blunder and incredibly naive!
I appreciate the hard work that the CC do, but it´s very unfortunate that they painted themselfs into this corner by recommending this deal without first having presented it to the members. If they would have done so, they would have saved themselfs a lot of work and embarrasment as hundreds of critical members see more potential loopholes/flaws than an overworked CC.
They could have let their members do a lot of number crunching work for them and at the same time improve the communication towards it´s members in doing so.
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Just a view from an outsider.
Sometimes the CC don't recommend a deal because they think it is a great deal or that it will meet with the pilots' aspirations, sometimes they believe it is the best deal they can negotiate. We have had this in the past at Britannia when the pay talks have dragged on and on.
The thing the CC need is solidarity and a real desire to give them the mandate to push harder. You MUST let them know what you feel and just as importantly, tell them what support you are prepared to give. With that mandate you can send them back to the company again and again.....
I wish you all well. I think this years pay round is vitally important for all pilots in the UK. Thomsonfly are in talks where the offer has fallen well below our expectations, I read GB talks have stalled and easy talks don't seem to be yielding what you guys want yet either.
If we all cave in and accept a minor RPI related rise this year the employers are going to be laughing all the way to the bank. The recruitment increase and lack of experience in the job market mean that the post 9/11 tide is shifting in our favour. If we don't significantly re-adjust our positions and stop the rot in the renumeration field this year and next we are all doomed to many years of lowering terms and conditions. The next downturn can only be around the corner and the employers are still using the time honoured excuses from the last one to suppress terms.
Good luck to you all in Easy, we all watch with much interest.
PP
Sometimes the CC don't recommend a deal because they think it is a great deal or that it will meet with the pilots' aspirations, sometimes they believe it is the best deal they can negotiate. We have had this in the past at Britannia when the pay talks have dragged on and on.
The thing the CC need is solidarity and a real desire to give them the mandate to push harder. You MUST let them know what you feel and just as importantly, tell them what support you are prepared to give. With that mandate you can send them back to the company again and again.....
I wish you all well. I think this years pay round is vitally important for all pilots in the UK. Thomsonfly are in talks where the offer has fallen well below our expectations, I read GB talks have stalled and easy talks don't seem to be yielding what you guys want yet either.
If we all cave in and accept a minor RPI related rise this year the employers are going to be laughing all the way to the bank. The recruitment increase and lack of experience in the job market mean that the post 9/11 tide is shifting in our favour. If we don't significantly re-adjust our positions and stop the rot in the renumeration field this year and next we are all doomed to many years of lowering terms and conditions. The next downturn can only be around the corner and the employers are still using the time honoured excuses from the last one to suppress terms.
Good luck to you all in Easy, we all watch with much interest.
PP
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flap 15
I do not now if you are cc. what I want to say is that no member of cc was made to do this..they all volunteer . if they say vote yes we recommend then that is there decision. if we then vote no that is our decision. if you make a decision that then turn out to be wrong one you may be asked to explain your action. if you do not like that responsibility then resign your post. nobody is making the cc do this and if they want the responsible of representing pilot views they have to be accountable for there action. we are paying 1 % and we expect to see something for our money. this should have negotiation started long before october and it still going on. we now nearly half way to next year pay talks. CC get a grip , get ballot done and announce results. Then issue formal notice of failure to disagree and ballot for what strike action. that is what most people want cc to do. if you have not done this soon you will find peoplle tabling vote of no confidence.enough of this already
I do not now if you are cc. what I want to say is that no member of cc was made to do this..they all volunteer . if they say vote yes we recommend then that is there decision. if we then vote no that is our decision. if you make a decision that then turn out to be wrong one you may be asked to explain your action. if you do not like that responsibility then resign your post. nobody is making the cc do this and if they want the responsible of representing pilot views they have to be accountable for there action. we are paying 1 % and we expect to see something for our money. this should have negotiation started long before october and it still going on. we now nearly half way to next year pay talks. CC get a grip , get ballot done and announce results. Then issue formal notice of failure to disagree and ballot for what strike action. that is what most people want cc to do. if you have not done this soon you will find peoplle tabling vote of no confidence.enough of this already
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There in lies the problem; members are paying a subscription to BALPA, and in return they are getting the services of dedicated volunteers working in their spare time! It does not seem to be fair on both parties; at the very least CC representatives should draw some financial reward to reflect the time and effort they give for the members benefit, and before you ask, I am not CC. I know they volunteer, but the motives for doing so are to seek the best improvement iaw the economic climate.
It would be nice if the system was somewhat different with the CC overseeing day to day matters, and BALPA itself negotiating annual renumerations/pay and conditions, with individual company circumstances in mind.
Where BALPA have let themselves down in the past is with regards to the CC negotiating away benefits for some of their members (F/O's Loyalty Bonus etc) which has led to the perception that certain elements of the membership are being asked to make sacrifices for the benefit of other elements of the membership. Whether true, or not, perception is everything, and this has resulted in sporadic membership levels to the benifit of the company; BALPA needs to be more Cameron/Blair and appeal to every member and maintain a constant high level of membership by implementing and delivering fair renumeration and safe rostering agreements for everyone.
I am a recent member of BALPA, after 10 years in civil aviation; the reason I never joined before was because of its apparent lack of effectiveness; this was always countered by 'we need the membership'; it now has the membership and it is more important than ever that it now delivers! Ironically, having only just joined I am somewhat impatient with some of my colleagues who remain outside BALPA and feel they are unable to support the present struggle, the outcome of which I am sure they will benefit from very nicely!
It would be nice if the system was somewhat different with the CC overseeing day to day matters, and BALPA itself negotiating annual renumerations/pay and conditions, with individual company circumstances in mind.
Where BALPA have let themselves down in the past is with regards to the CC negotiating away benefits for some of their members (F/O's Loyalty Bonus etc) which has led to the perception that certain elements of the membership are being asked to make sacrifices for the benefit of other elements of the membership. Whether true, or not, perception is everything, and this has resulted in sporadic membership levels to the benifit of the company; BALPA needs to be more Cameron/Blair and appeal to every member and maintain a constant high level of membership by implementing and delivering fair renumeration and safe rostering agreements for everyone.
I am a recent member of BALPA, after 10 years in civil aviation; the reason I never joined before was because of its apparent lack of effectiveness; this was always countered by 'we need the membership'; it now has the membership and it is more important than ever that it now delivers! Ironically, having only just joined I am somewhat impatient with some of my colleagues who remain outside BALPA and feel they are unable to support the present struggle, the outcome of which I am sure they will benefit from very nicely!
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Hi Ngr
No I am not cc and would be no good at the job I would also like to stay married. Having reread my post I was probably a bit short and also failed to fully express my views clearly.
So first up I will be voting NO since the offer has failed to fully address a single issue that we as the membership have expressed a wish for. For the first time this year I achieved 900 hrs along with many others and therefore would like to see some sort of reward for the improvememnt in productivity. I am also aware that there is some impatience with the process but get some what frustrated with some peoples failure to understand the process that must be followed to optomise our postion before we park the aircraft and light the braziers. We have all been through CRM courses and that knowledge can be used out side of the of the cockpit. Despite this the CC can be critisised but i feel it needs to be done profesionaly and constructivley. Even better still it sholud be done on the BALPA forum.
A few CC members have already expressed their concerns and I look forward to their next announcment after the Friday meetings with easyland. I also hope that they have reviewed their postion in light of developments.
Capt Hook I agree with your sentiments.
No I am not cc and would be no good at the job I would also like to stay married. Having reread my post I was probably a bit short and also failed to fully express my views clearly.
So first up I will be voting NO since the offer has failed to fully address a single issue that we as the membership have expressed a wish for. For the first time this year I achieved 900 hrs along with many others and therefore would like to see some sort of reward for the improvememnt in productivity. I am also aware that there is some impatience with the process but get some what frustrated with some peoples failure to understand the process that must be followed to optomise our postion before we park the aircraft and light the braziers. We have all been through CRM courses and that knowledge can be used out side of the of the cockpit. Despite this the CC can be critisised but i feel it needs to be done profesionaly and constructivley. Even better still it sholud be done on the BALPA forum.
A few CC members have already expressed their concerns and I look forward to their next announcment after the Friday meetings with easyland. I also hope that they have reviewed their postion in light of developments.
Capt Hook I agree with your sentiments.
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Is this the same Flap15 who on the Balpa website said on 10.2.06 when opening the debate on the proposed paydeal :-
Well, I've read it. I've read it again. Then again.
I think it's good.
Well, I've read it. I've read it again. Then again.
I think it's good.
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I am a little dismayed as to how many people seem to think their 1% (Less tax of course) is only there for people to negotiate their pay.
I was unfortunate enough, in a previous life, to be involved in an incident that had potentially disastrous consequences for my Captain and, to a lesser degree, myself. I can categorically say that, had it not been for our 1%s, we would have been most definately 'on our bikes'. The Balpa support and influence on the hearings was immense and not only did we keep our jobs but went on to bigger and posssibly better things.
Since that day, I have always viewed my contribution as primarily for my own job insurance in case something, through no deliberate fault of my own, happens to threaten my livelihood.
Please stop thinking of this as 1% just for volunteer pay negotiators - it's more than that!
btw. Someone once told me that if a company offered or planned a 1% pay rise (for example) and Balpa got that up to 2%, then that effectively paid your fees for the rest of your time with that company.
Worth a thought!
At least with Balpa you get the chance to vote. Without them you would have had somewhat less I guess and no vote whatsoever!!
I was unfortunate enough, in a previous life, to be involved in an incident that had potentially disastrous consequences for my Captain and, to a lesser degree, myself. I can categorically say that, had it not been for our 1%s, we would have been most definately 'on our bikes'. The Balpa support and influence on the hearings was immense and not only did we keep our jobs but went on to bigger and posssibly better things.
Since that day, I have always viewed my contribution as primarily for my own job insurance in case something, through no deliberate fault of my own, happens to threaten my livelihood.
Please stop thinking of this as 1% just for volunteer pay negotiators - it's more than that!
btw. Someone once told me that if a company offered or planned a 1% pay rise (for example) and Balpa got that up to 2%, then that effectively paid your fees for the rest of your time with that company.
Worth a thought!
At least with Balpa you get the chance to vote. Without them you would have had somewhat less I guess and no vote whatsoever!!
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Need we say more about working for easyJet.
New route;
London Luton to Istanbul 0615-1210
Istanbul to London Luton 1235-1435
On Duty 0515, Off duty 1505.
25 min turnaround in IST.
9 hours 50 duty with only 25 mins to do a turnaround, stretch legs (shake blood clots out) and have a cr@p.
I guess crewing are going to hear the old sickness story before that flight then!
PS And in a Boeing 737!!
New route;
London Luton to Istanbul 0615-1210
Istanbul to London Luton 1235-1435
On Duty 0515, Off duty 1505.
25 min turnaround in IST. 9 hours 50 duty with only 25 mins to do a turnaround, stretch legs (shake blood clots out) and have a cr@p.
I guess crewing are going to hear the old sickness story before that flight then!
PS And in a Boeing 737!!
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Well it's here and I think it won't be what people were expecting. Looks very much like "get the white flags out, we've had enough" to me.
Since when do you include company pension contributions in your salary to see what pay rise you will be getting? Answer, only if you want the percentage increase to look better than it is!
I want the increase IN MY PAY to recognise the increase in my productivity. For 480 sectors, an average of only 40 sectors a month, it works out as 2.9% in your pay packet for a C3 Captain (those who need to know will understand). LESS THAN RPI!. If EJ's pension contributions increase because they change the way they want to pay us then that is their problem, they are trying to make us pay for it and that is wrong, and the CC agree
.
The new deal is still less than a flat 3.5% payrise to our current agreement would have been. This would have almost given us the pension increase in the new deal as well. The new deal SAVES EJ money when compared to a flat 3.5% payrise, the structure of it is better but it isn't enough, it is pulling the wool over your eyes with what appears to be a better deal. Can some one tell me where the average sector base is because I want to go there, we sure as hell do more than the 420 or so sectors that this deal is worked out on where I work. Why should we give EJ 50-80 odd sectors a year for nothing? Since when has "almost certainly reduce significantly" with respect to GLA's sector numbers ever meant anything to the EJ management? What if they don't, and they will be doing more than the "standard deviation" guaranteed, what then? The deal should be worked out on the maximum sectors possible and if EJ can't utilize crew to that number then that is their problem. Nobody should be giving away a month or so of flying for nothing because they are above the "standard deviation".
It has got to the crunch and it looks like a capitulation, be interesting to see the approach from the CC if this gets a resounding NO from the workforce. I think the CC and the company have misread the feeling amongst the crew that make the airline work, we are fed up with being treated like s..t, and want fair remuneration for being screwed by the rostering and working our collective rings off!
Since when do you include company pension contributions in your salary to see what pay rise you will be getting? Answer, only if you want the percentage increase to look better than it is!
I want the increase IN MY PAY to recognise the increase in my productivity. For 480 sectors, an average of only 40 sectors a month, it works out as 2.9% in your pay packet for a C3 Captain (those who need to know will understand). LESS THAN RPI!. If EJ's pension contributions increase because they change the way they want to pay us then that is their problem, they are trying to make us pay for it and that is wrong, and the CC agree
.The new deal is still less than a flat 3.5% payrise to our current agreement would have been. This would have almost given us the pension increase in the new deal as well. The new deal SAVES EJ money when compared to a flat 3.5% payrise, the structure of it is better but it isn't enough, it is pulling the wool over your eyes with what appears to be a better deal. Can some one tell me where the average sector base is because I want to go there, we sure as hell do more than the 420 or so sectors that this deal is worked out on where I work. Why should we give EJ 50-80 odd sectors a year for nothing? Since when has "almost certainly reduce significantly" with respect to GLA's sector numbers ever meant anything to the EJ management? What if they don't, and they will be doing more than the "standard deviation" guaranteed, what then? The deal should be worked out on the maximum sectors possible and if EJ can't utilize crew to that number then that is their problem. Nobody should be giving away a month or so of flying for nothing because they are above the "standard deviation".
It has got to the crunch and it looks like a capitulation, be interesting to see the approach from the CC if this gets a resounding NO from the workforce. I think the CC and the company have misread the feeling amongst the crew that make the airline work, we are fed up with being treated like s..t, and want fair remuneration for being screwed by the rostering and working our collective rings off!
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EP,
You got it right, you do live in an easy prison. Dont ever dream of going to work for a charter outfit or you will be in for a nasty shock!
9H 50 duty with a short turnround? When you have been to BJL and back circa 6:30 each way with minimum turnround THEN you have room to complain
You got it right, you do live in an easy prison. Dont ever dream of going to work for a charter outfit or you will be in for a nasty shock!
9H 50 duty with a short turnround? When you have been to BJL and back circa 6:30 each way with minimum turnround THEN you have room to complain
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Pilot Pete
I think this years pay round is vitally important for all pilots in the UK. Thomsonfly are in talks where the offer has fallen well below our expectations, I read GB talks have stalled and easy talks don't seem to be yielding what you guys want yet either.
These are last year's talks!