99% of easyjet pilots reject pay offer
Penko,
No need to worry about the cadets, they've all gone to BA.
When we joined as TRSS, it was the only deal on the table. "Take it or leave it" the company said, and we took it.
Now, the tide has turned. We are turning to the company and saying - "Pay me more to keep me - take it or leave it". I just feel it would be the best thing for all of us to stem the outward flow. Clearly some eJ employees (SZ and the like) would be glad to see the back of us, rather than up our deal to keep us. I'm sure there's a vast pool of suitable candidates ready to fill our shoes.
I joined BALPA a while ago to support the pilot group. If it doesn't work out, then I'll reassess.
EDIT:
Oooh look - 86% have voted no! I'm amazed it's not nearer 96%, but there you go.
No need to worry about the cadets, they've all gone to BA.
When we joined as TRSS, it was the only deal on the table. "Take it or leave it" the company said, and we took it.
Now, the tide has turned. We are turning to the company and saying - "Pay me more to keep me - take it or leave it". I just feel it would be the best thing for all of us to stem the outward flow. Clearly some eJ employees (SZ and the like) would be glad to see the back of us, rather than up our deal to keep us. I'm sure there's a vast pool of suitable candidates ready to fill our shoes.
I joined BALPA a while ago to support the pilot group. If it doesn't work out, then I'll reassess.
EDIT:
Oooh look - 86% have voted no! I'm amazed it's not nearer 96%, but there you go.
Last edited by HundredPercentPlease; 27th Mar 2006 at 12:05.
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HundredPercentPlease:
Where in my post have I written that I rather want to get rid of you then anything else??? Please mate, stick to the facts posted here and don't insult me by thinking for me.
I am quite happy to see an improved version of the TRSS deal but clearly demanding a 25% increase in pay is lunacy. If you didn't like the deal in the first place, you could have refused it. It's a free market out there.
I at first had to pay approx 70K to get an airline job and I do not want that money back from anyone.
I SIGNED FOR IT!
A PAYRISE however is well deserved to the TRSS'ers in easyJet so I would be glad to see a far better deal to come onto the table (again I'm quite happy with the choices I made in the past so I for one will not ask my money back) and also very happy to fight for it at present.
Where in my post have I written that I rather want to get rid of you then anything else??? Please mate, stick to the facts posted here and don't insult me by thinking for me.
I am quite happy to see an improved version of the TRSS deal but clearly demanding a 25% increase in pay is lunacy. If you didn't like the deal in the first place, you could have refused it. It's a free market out there.
I at first had to pay approx 70K to get an airline job and I do not want that money back from anyone.
I SIGNED FOR IT!
A PAYRISE however is well deserved to the TRSS'ers in easyJet so I would be glad to see a far better deal to come onto the table (again I'm quite happy with the choices I made in the past so I for one will not ask my money back) and also very happy to fight for it at present.
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Indeed, you were more than happy to sign up for TRSS in the first place and now that eJ are honouring their side of the contract you want more!!!
True it's a free market so you could get more for your talent elsewhere but don't berate easyJet for not paying you more, afterall you were happy to sign the deal in the first place...
It's a bit like buying a house with a mortgage of 5% and then the next year the rate drops to 2%. Sure you feel disadvantaged but at the start you were happy to sign up for it so live with it. Learn from it and don't do it again!
A fair pay deal for all pilots is required.
True it's a free market so you could get more for your talent elsewhere but don't berate easyJet for not paying you more, afterall you were happy to sign the deal in the first place...
It's a bit like buying a house with a mortgage of 5% and then the next year the rate drops to 2%. Sure you feel disadvantaged but at the start you were happy to sign up for it so live with it. Learn from it and don't do it again!
A fair pay deal for all pilots is required.
SZ - I apologise for thinking for you! My angle was that those who think we should shut up and not get a normal SFO salary, are by inference suggesting that we should go elsewhere for it (since we're not going to get it at easy). You and RB and Kraut are all saying the same thing - live with it. We will - but not at easyJet.
It's a shame, because I'd much rather fight with you guys, for the company I believe in, rather than have to go elsewhere to maximise my earning power.
PS I too paid £70k for my training, and then had to enter into this £23k deal on top of that. I'm not asking for my £70k back, I'm not asking for the £15k I've so far paid to easy - I'm asking to call it quits at £15k since the market is so different now.
Apologies if I've offended or wound anyone up - I'll call it a day now.
It's a shame, because I'd much rather fight with you guys, for the company I believe in, rather than have to go elsewhere to maximise my earning power.
PS I too paid £70k for my training, and then had to enter into this £23k deal on top of that. I'm not asking for my £70k back, I'm not asking for the £15k I've so far paid to easy - I'm asking to call it quits at £15k since the market is so different now.
Apologies if I've offended or wound anyone up - I'll call it a day now.
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Some questions.......
Q. How many more block hours do the orange brigade get out of us these days?
The answer should be around 35%, if you go back 2 years the average easy pilot was doing about 650hrs, we now do 880ish.
Q. How much have our salaries changed since then?
Not a great deal.
Q. Why do some people feel that 25% is an unreasonable request?
If they could afford to pay the equivalent hourly rate 2 years ago, they can afford to do the same now!
Please stop selling your selves short people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm off to a company that will pay me between £3,500 and £4,200, take home a month as a bottom of the pile FO so I don't know why I should give a t##s!
I do though.
Q. How many more block hours do the orange brigade get out of us these days?
The answer should be around 35%, if you go back 2 years the average easy pilot was doing about 650hrs, we now do 880ish.
Q. How much have our salaries changed since then?
Not a great deal.
Q. Why do some people feel that 25% is an unreasonable request?
If they could afford to pay the equivalent hourly rate 2 years ago, they can afford to do the same now!
Please stop selling your selves short people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm off to a company that will pay me between £3,500 and £4,200, take home a month as a bottom of the pile FO so I don't know why I should give a t##s!
I do though.
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RE: Stop TRSS now
The thing is we did sign up to TRSS when there was nothing else on offer... but EZY want a career airline now. MS reckons "most people" he meets feel "proud" to work for the company.
Any TRSS out there feel proud?
If you are on a "C" scale is that a career airline?
If they truely want a career airline they have to offer us more to keep us, other wise I and many others will take the free bus rating and 500 hours and have great pleasure in leaving and going to a 73/bus opperator bond free.
EasyJet has bred this disloyality themselves.
Any TRSS out there feel proud?
If you are on a "C" scale is that a career airline?
If they truely want a career airline they have to offer us more to keep us, other wise I and many others will take the free bus rating and 500 hours and have great pleasure in leaving and going to a 73/bus opperator bond free.
EasyJet has bred this disloyality themselves.
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Please stop moaning about TRSS!
I´m also TRSS, I don´t like it, but we all signed on the dotted line so live with it!!
Regarding the paydeal: Fat Mike and Co are suddenly changing their tune so let´s lean back (whilst working our butts off and applying with other airlines!) and see what they will offer next.
They will need some seriously dedicated troops to fight for them this summer because of the mess they made, so they´ll have to increase the offer significantly to convince us of that!
Regarding the paydeal: Fat Mike and Co are suddenly changing their tune so let´s lean back (whilst working our butts off and applying with other airlines!) and see what they will offer next.
They will need some seriously dedicated troops to fight for them this summer because of the mess they made, so they´ll have to increase the offer significantly to convince us of that!
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Totally agree with you Bar Rattler, what goes around comes around. They took full advantage now it's your turn to take full advantage.
Having thought about it for a couple of days why not bring all TRSS into line with A scales and the outstanding loan is paid off but you're bonded for the remainder of say 3 years in a traditional bond type. That way your happy and easyJet has some people that aren't going to walk easily. A win-win situation.
Maybe once and for all the TRSS will disappear. Same thing happened in the 1990's with Brymon and British Midland. BM sold type ratings and the hope was they would take you on.
Having thought about it for a couple of days why not bring all TRSS into line with A scales and the outstanding loan is paid off but you're bonded for the remainder of say 3 years in a traditional bond type. That way your happy and easyJet has some people that aren't going to walk easily. A win-win situation.
Maybe once and for all the TRSS will disappear. Same thing happened in the 1990's with Brymon and British Midland. BM sold type ratings and the hope was they would take you on.
Originally Posted by bar rattler
The thing is we did sign up to TRSS when there was nothing else on offer... but EZY want a career airline now. MS reckons "most people" he meets feel "proud" to work for the company.
Any TRSS out there feel proud?
If you are on a "C" scale is that a career airline?
If they truely want a career airline they have to offer us more to keep us, other wise I and many others will take the free bus rating and 500 hours and have great pleasure in leaving and going to a 73/bus opperator bond free.
EasyJet has bred this disloyality themselves.
Any TRSS out there feel proud?
If you are on a "C" scale is that a career airline?
If they truely want a career airline they have to offer us more to keep us, other wise I and many others will take the free bus rating and 500 hours and have great pleasure in leaving and going to a 73/bus opperator bond free.
EasyJet has bred this disloyality themselves.
If you leave easy now, will you not still be paying off your TRSS loan? So what real difference does it make? (other than maybe better pay, the very thing we are fighting for)
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Q. How many more block hours do the orange brigade get out of us these days?
The answer should be around 35%, if you go back 2 years the average easy pilot was doing about 650hrs, we now do 880ish.
The answer should be around 35%, if you go back 2 years the average easy pilot was doing about 650hrs, we now do 880ish.
2,3 and 4 years ago our survey figures at LTN, LGW and LPL gave averages of between 760 and 860 hours per year.
I cannot recall a time here when the averge has been 650.
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TRSS
My two cents...
EJ cleverly made use of the "free-market" situation 2-3 years ago. In times of overcapacity, the TRSS-scheme was born and EJ did profit from it greatly. Leaving my circumstances aside at the time, YES, I DID sign on the dotted line and YES, I WAS aware of the consequences. However, paying 35k to get used and abused is not quite what I expected...
NOW the market situation is in our advantage, why not use the existing leverage to achieve something that is in line with our increase in productivity over the last 12 months? Apart from that, how hard can it be to produce a salary-system that is transparent, simple and stupid?? Our managers got to stop SPINNING and finally got to start speaking language we all understand.
EJ cleverly made use of the "free-market" situation 2-3 years ago. In times of overcapacity, the TRSS-scheme was born and EJ did profit from it greatly. Leaving my circumstances aside at the time, YES, I DID sign on the dotted line and YES, I WAS aware of the consequences. However, paying 35k to get used and abused is not quite what I expected...
NOW the market situation is in our advantage, why not use the existing leverage to achieve something that is in line with our increase in productivity over the last 12 months? Apart from that, how hard can it be to produce a salary-system that is transparent, simple and stupid?? Our managers got to stop SPINNING and finally got to start speaking language we all understand.
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Penko,
Yes there is the loan to consider, but by leaving, to me, it is still worth it, becasue you are better off at many carriers by doing less flying, you get BUPA or simillar at £150 per month for a family, PHI and a free unifrom, better staff travel, a leave system that works, a senirority list so you can calculate when your time for command should in theory arrive and which base you will be at to plan your personal life.
There are many many people I fly with every day who are shagged, and I do not intend to be one - not at ezy, the rewards are not there.
If ezy was like a career as a trader in the city - Work kin hard, get paid kin well and then retire early, then fine. They way it is now = work kin hard, get paid not tooooo bad, retire on an unsustainable pension.
If the company want me to feel it is a great place to work and want me to feel proud to work for the company then they would do well to put me on the normal SFO salary and bond me for the remainding time of my TRSS loan.
THEY have made THEIR bed
Yes there is the loan to consider, but by leaving, to me, it is still worth it, becasue you are better off at many carriers by doing less flying, you get BUPA or simillar at £150 per month for a family, PHI and a free unifrom, better staff travel, a leave system that works, a senirority list so you can calculate when your time for command should in theory arrive and which base you will be at to plan your personal life.
There are many many people I fly with every day who are shagged, and I do not intend to be one - not at ezy, the rewards are not there.
If ezy was like a career as a trader in the city - Work kin hard, get paid kin well and then retire early, then fine. They way it is now = work kin hard, get paid not tooooo bad, retire on an unsustainable pension.
If the company want me to feel it is a great place to work and want me to feel proud to work for the company then they would do well to put me on the normal SFO salary and bond me for the remainding time of my TRSS loan.
THEY have made THEIR bed
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You signed up for it with a guaranteed job at the end. Many of us waited years for a job to pay off the loans.....but yup, top end ezy management are only looking out for themselves.
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EJ cleverly made use of the "free-market" situation 2-3 years ago. In times of overcapacity, the TRSS-scheme was born and EJ did profit from it greatly. Leaving my circumstances aside at the time, YES, I DID sign on the dotted line and YES, I WAS aware of the consequences. However, paying 35k to get used and abused is not quite what I expected...
To me however TRSS has advantages and disadvantages.
I was able to pay my TRSS in cash and I do not suddenly want to be bonded and be stuck with this outfit for another couple of years.
Sure, it would quickly give me some cash in my hands, but TRSS is also my freedom!
If I can find a better job tomorrow then I´ll give my 3 months notice and I´m out! Simple as that! No bond, no hard feelings! Even if you had to take out a loan to pay for your TRSS, you could take this loan with you to your new job. You would miss out the EZY repayments, but on the other hand I guess that most jobs worth leaving EZY for would pay good enough to make up for the loss.
It´s the TRSS and Cadets that are really biting EZY in the @ss when it comes to crew leaving. Typically penny wise pound foolish reasoning from EZY as it didn´t cost them much to hire us, but when it comes to finding our replacements and captains in a booming pilot market they´re up sh!t creek without a paddle.
What we need is something that favours both sides - whilst just cancelling TRSS would be great, the company would want us to not leave in return. Having a an increasing bond to cover the extra pay would be impossible to enforce, or claim against (and noone would want to sign up to another bond), so why not...
... at the end of the TRSS period (5 yrs), pay us back 50% of the money we paid to eJ. That would encourage us to stay, and we could now "think" that we were in effect on the full ('B' scale) salary (assuming most are roughly half way through the scheme) for the latter part of the TRSS sentence.
... at the end of the TRSS period (5 yrs), pay us back 50% of the money we paid to eJ. That would encourage us to stay, and we could now "think" that we were in effect on the full ('B' scale) salary (assuming most are roughly half way through the scheme) for the latter part of the TRSS sentence.
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There's plenty of money to pay pilots in easyjet properly and to provide decent terms and conditions. As I described earlier, all it takes is a few pence on each ticket. Problem is that it will take the realistic threat of a strike to achieve it.
Easyjet's expansion is being achieved by keeping downwards pressure on costs through a manipulation of the profit figure with the ticket price.
If a stand is not taken now (ie threaten a strike, and demand a massive boost in renumeration - 25% over a career, using incremental payscales that increase EVERY YEAR), this airline will without a doubt grow to 1000 aircraft. We will stand with our heads held low, having presided over the decimation of our profession is the space of a few short years.
If you subsequently read a sanctimonious rebuttal of my proposal, remember that it is in the interest of our management hacks to once in a while, remove their snouts from the trough, log into pprune, pretend to be line pilots and rubbish anyone who refuses to be sold short.
Easyjet's expansion is being achieved by keeping downwards pressure on costs through a manipulation of the profit figure with the ticket price.
If a stand is not taken now (ie threaten a strike, and demand a massive boost in renumeration - 25% over a career, using incremental payscales that increase EVERY YEAR), this airline will without a doubt grow to 1000 aircraft. We will stand with our heads held low, having presided over the decimation of our profession is the space of a few short years.
If you subsequently read a sanctimonious rebuttal of my proposal, remember that it is in the interest of our management hacks to once in a while, remove their snouts from the trough, log into pprune, pretend to be line pilots and rubbish anyone who refuses to be sold short.