99% of easyjet pilots reject pay offer
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Just a word of caution.
I flew with a bright, young, English, 2nd officer (LGW base) recently who talked very positively of the deal and explained how much better off he would be when it was voted in.
Pilots and own worst enemies come to mind.
I flew with a bright, young, English, 2nd officer (LGW base) recently who talked very positively of the deal and explained how much better off he would be when it was voted in.
Pilots and own worst enemies come to mind.
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Over the past few weeks I've only heard 2 pilots who said that they voted YES, everybody else I spoke to said they voted NO. Perhaps some people will not admit to voting YES (don't understand why though, this is a democratic process isn't it?).
I think that the main reason for people voting yes is that they do not wish to go on strike. I think nobody here wishes to go on strike but that does not mean that we have to accept a deal that doesn't reflect our hard work and loyalty to Easyjet.
All in all, I think it will be a NO vote...by around 80ish %.
PS: rumour has it that LTN, BFS, LGW and EDI are definitely NO. And LPL a definite YES vote. STN was divided apparently? anyone care to comment?
I think that the main reason for people voting yes is that they do not wish to go on strike. I think nobody here wishes to go on strike but that does not mean that we have to accept a deal that doesn't reflect our hard work and loyalty to Easyjet.
All in all, I think it will be a NO vote...by around 80ish %.
PS: rumour has it that LTN, BFS, LGW and EDI are definitely NO. And LPL a definite YES vote. STN was divided apparently? anyone care to comment?
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Originally Posted by CaptainProp
Yep, and then what?! I'm a bit concerned about what happens after the vote..
Let ´Fat Mike,´ Paul T. and Jim P. worry about all those cancelled flights because of crew shortages as more and more people move to greener pastures.
Sure, they can (try to) play hardball and stand by their previous pathetic offer, but what will happen is that more and more pilots will resign, leaving fewer and fewer pilots who will have to work harder and harder which in turn means that more and more pilots reach FTL limits (or call in sick/fatigued) and more and more flights get cancelled/subleased.
We probably won´t even have to go to the industrial action stage. The company will do it for us! They are their own worst enemies!
What we/BALPA needs to do is keep the troops united and stall for time as EZY management throws more and more sand into their own gears by cancelling flights and wasting "shareholder value" by subleasing and positioning/ferrying/hotacing crews througout the network. (No wonder they want to cancel sector pay for positioning crews under this new deal...)
It´s gonna be a HOT summer!
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Originally Posted by Doug the Head
Why worry?
Let ´Fat Mike,´ Paul T. and Jim P. worry about all those cancelled flights because of crew shortages as more and more people move to greener pastures.
Sure, they can (try to) play hardball and stand by their previous pathetic offer, but what will happen is that more and more pilots will resign, leaving fewer and fewer pilots who will have to work harder and harder which in turn means that more and more pilots reach FTL limits (or call in sick/fatigued) and more and more flights get cancelled/subleased.
We probably won´t even have to go to the industrial action stage. The company will do it for us! They are their own worst enemies!
What we/BALPA needs to do is keep the troops united....
Let ´Fat Mike,´ Paul T. and Jim P. worry about all those cancelled flights because of crew shortages as more and more people move to greener pastures.
Sure, they can (try to) play hardball and stand by their previous pathetic offer, but what will happen is that more and more pilots will resign, leaving fewer and fewer pilots who will have to work harder and harder which in turn means that more and more pilots reach FTL limits (or call in sick/fatigued) and more and more flights get cancelled/subleased.
We probably won´t even have to go to the industrial action stage. The company will do it for us! They are their own worst enemies!
What we/BALPA needs to do is keep the troops united....
No one is asking for stupid money or terms here that will cause the company problems. All we want is to get paid for the hard work we put in and get a pension worth its name! At the moment what we have on the table is "Work more, get less"
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sorry to butt in on what seems to be a very emotional issue going on in EZY,
Same situation in FR, seems like the only solution is UNITY between bases,
dont let them divide and conquer,
Looks like we in FR might achieve this thanks to an independant website.
BALPA can provide the detail,
Keep the fight, Unity will give you the power to get a fair deal for all,
Same situation in FR, seems like the only solution is UNITY between bases,
dont let them divide and conquer,
Looks like we in FR might achieve this thanks to an independant website.
BALPA can provide the detail,
Keep the fight, Unity will give you the power to get a fair deal for all,
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It would cost the company NOTHING to give pilots a fair shake in ezy.
Follow me closely:
Average easy pilot makes Ł50,000
Increase the renumeration by 25% (in pay, pension, whatever)
Cost to company Ł12,500 per pilot
1200 pilots (and decreasing) : Total cost Ł15,000,000 per year
35,000,000 passengers per year
Increment required per ticket: 15 million/35 million = Ł0.43 per ticket
Basically nothing.
These figures aren't exact but you know where I'm coming from.
A realistic threat of industrial is required now. No more rubbish negotiations helping the company with its obvious goal in achieving a 51% vote in favour of a rubbish "deal".
Follow me closely:
Average easy pilot makes Ł50,000
Increase the renumeration by 25% (in pay, pension, whatever)
Cost to company Ł12,500 per pilot
1200 pilots (and decreasing) : Total cost Ł15,000,000 per year
35,000,000 passengers per year
Increment required per ticket: 15 million/35 million = Ł0.43 per ticket
Basically nothing.
These figures aren't exact but you know where I'm coming from.
A realistic threat of industrial is required now. No more rubbish negotiations helping the company with its obvious goal in achieving a 51% vote in favour of a rubbish "deal".
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only Ł15m??
What would shareholders say to management giving away 22% of the profit (Ł15m/68m)???? If you think they can afford to do that... you dont know much about business.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
Out Of Synch,
Under IFRS, easyJet's profit before tax for the year ended 30 September 2005
increased from £67.9 million under UK GAAP to £82.6 million under IFRS - or about £15 million. Your point is however semi-valid - if the aircraft don't fly then there is NO profit. Do you think they can afford to do THAT? What would the shareholders say to that???
The FACT is that flights are already being subchartered. This is a HUGE cost being bought about by the intransigence of the Management and their failiure to take the bull by the horns and ADDRESS THE ISSUES that are causing flightcrew to leave in LARGE NUMBERS. I think the quoted turnover figures are pure BS/Spin. 3 LGW skippers last week.....
The current workforce are not asking for a pi$$take payrise. However it is only correct that their hard work (and lets not beat about the bush here, working for eJ is hard work, with multi-sector days in busy airspace with short turnarounds. That kind of operation DEMANDS professionalism, which is what eJ gets, and should be rewarded as such. Would the new CEO have taken the demanding job of running Europes premier LoCo if he was only going to be paid half of his £540,000 BASIC salary. Probably not - market forces and all that - must pay these salaries to get the best people. Er hello!!!!!!
Well the management NEED to WAKE UP and SMELL the Kerosine (to coin a phrase). Market forces are at work - BIG STYLE. Address the pension issue (primarily) start promoting the many, many talented SFO's you have before they all go to Virgin, BA, TFly etc, sort out the 5/2/5/4 debacle
How much does the managemnt think a 2 day strike would actually cost the company in real terms? Lost future business, shareprice fall..... I bet the Icelanders are poised with their cheque book just waiting for it to happen.
easyJet should be a company that people aspire to - perhaps a shorthaul Virgin if you like. When I joined I was told the goal was to make eJ the "employer of choice" - doesn't appear to be "on message" at the moment.
What's so bloody frustrating is that NOTHING ever seems to be addressed. Just carry on regardless until the wheels come of and a fair % of the fleet is grounded in the summer due to lack of crews. It borders on criminal negligence.
A4
Under IFRS, easyJet's profit before tax for the year ended 30 September 2005
increased from £67.9 million under UK GAAP to £82.6 million under IFRS - or about £15 million. Your point is however semi-valid - if the aircraft don't fly then there is NO profit. Do you think they can afford to do THAT? What would the shareholders say to that???
The FACT is that flights are already being subchartered. This is a HUGE cost being bought about by the intransigence of the Management and their failiure to take the bull by the horns and ADDRESS THE ISSUES that are causing flightcrew to leave in LARGE NUMBERS. I think the quoted turnover figures are pure BS/Spin. 3 LGW skippers last week.....
The current workforce are not asking for a pi$$take payrise. However it is only correct that their hard work (and lets not beat about the bush here, working for eJ is hard work, with multi-sector days in busy airspace with short turnarounds. That kind of operation DEMANDS professionalism, which is what eJ gets, and should be rewarded as such. Would the new CEO have taken the demanding job of running Europes premier LoCo if he was only going to be paid half of his £540,000 BASIC salary. Probably not - market forces and all that - must pay these salaries to get the best people. Er hello!!!!!!
Well the management NEED to WAKE UP and SMELL the Kerosine (to coin a phrase). Market forces are at work - BIG STYLE. Address the pension issue (primarily) start promoting the many, many talented SFO's you have before they all go to Virgin, BA, TFly etc, sort out the 5/2/5/4 debacle
How much does the managemnt think a 2 day strike would actually cost the company in real terms? Lost future business, shareprice fall..... I bet the Icelanders are poised with their cheque book just waiting for it to happen.
easyJet should be a company that people aspire to - perhaps a shorthaul Virgin if you like. When I joined I was told the goal was to make eJ the "employer of choice" - doesn't appear to be "on message" at the moment.
What's so bloody frustrating is that NOTHING ever seems to be addressed. Just carry on regardless until the wheels come of and a fair % of the fleet is grounded in the summer due to lack of crews. It borders on criminal negligence.
A4
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I agree A4
I couldnt agree more with your sentiments.
Its just 4on4off suggesting a 25% payrise just isnt realistic!
And it wouldnt stop the numbers leaving! many are going for reasons other than money... just my twopence worth...
Its just 4on4off suggesting a 25% payrise just isnt realistic!
And it wouldnt stop the numbers leaving! many are going for reasons other than money... just my twopence worth...
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204 sectors of the summer schedule have already been cancelled due to the current projected shortfall in crew numbers. I wonder how many uncrewed lines remain to be filled by apparent standbys, a little scam used by our rostering manager in a previous life. For a ten year old airline, it shows the maturity of a 1 year old company and in keeping with many other airlines, top end management should be ashamed of themselves. A4, you are quite correct. A career airline..my arse !
Originally Posted by outofsynch
...
Its just 4on4off suggesting a 25% payrise just isnt realistic!
Its just 4on4off suggesting a 25% payrise just isnt realistic!
If you give the SFO 'A' Scalers a 5% rise, then it would require a 24.7% rise for the 'C' scalers (TRSS SFO) to earn the same.
So the 200 or so 'C' scale SFO's do need 25% just to match the industry standard as set by, er, easyJet.
Ut Sementem Feeceris
I don't know the ballot result (obviously 
) but it does appear that it's likely to be a NO. As for peoples willingness to strike I can't comment. I'm not militant by any stretch. I consider myself to be a conciencious, hard working professional who does his best to get the job done. However, I have declared my intention to be prepared to strike if necessary. This was not decision arrived at lightly. I cannot stand by and watch this airline crumble (which is a very real prospect if the current trend continues). If a strike is what it takes to galvernise the powers that be into action then so be it.
In CRM, we are told that you can only let things go so far before you have to intervene to prevent disaster. Perhaps the time has come for us to say to our "Commanders" - "We have control". Perhaps we have to TELL them to "GO AROUND" before they drive this airline into the ground. Perhaps this is our opportunity to save them from themselves.........
Melodramatic? I don't think so. I think there is a serious case of tunnel vision occuring here. Or perhaps it's just sheer bloodymindedness on the part of a management who refuse to acknowledge that they have some of the most capable, professional and loyal staff in the industry.
A4
) but it does appear that it's likely to be a NO. As for peoples willingness to strike I can't comment. I'm not militant by any stretch. I consider myself to be a conciencious, hard working professional who does his best to get the job done. However, I have declared my intention to be prepared to strike if necessary. This was not decision arrived at lightly. I cannot stand by and watch this airline crumble (which is a very real prospect if the current trend continues). If a strike is what it takes to galvernise the powers that be into action then so be it. In CRM, we are told that you can only let things go so far before you have to intervene to prevent disaster. Perhaps the time has come for us to say to our "Commanders" - "We have control". Perhaps we have to TELL them to "GO AROUND" before they drive this airline into the ground. Perhaps this is our opportunity to save them from themselves.........
Melodramatic? I don't think so. I think there is a serious case of tunnel vision occuring here. Or perhaps it's just sheer bloodymindedness on the part of a management who refuse to acknowledge that they have some of the most capable, professional and loyal staff in the industry.
A4
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It is the problem of paying middle managers performance bonuses!
Flt ops management do well if they screw salaries etc down to keep to their budget cuts. They wont be the ones paying for a strike! In fact they will save even more salaries for a day.... or two.
Flt ops management do well if they screw salaries etc down to keep to their budget cuts. They wont be the ones paying for a strike! In fact they will save even more salaries for a day.... or two.
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Originally Posted by HundredPercentPlease
If you give the SFO 'A' Scalers a 5% rise, then it would require a 24.7% rise for the 'C' scalers (TRSS SFO) to earn the same.
So the 200 or so 'C' scale SFO's do need 25% just to match the industry standard as set by, er, easyJet.
So the 200 or so 'C' scale SFO's do need 25% just to match the industry standard as set by, er, easyJet.
To ask for a 25% payrise now is not on.
Has to be a no vote i'm afraid for the paydeal, just not good enough. The longer we stall it, the more flight cancellations....Time (for a change) is on our side!
I rather see the company doing well however then this shambles......
Originally Posted by Shaka Zulu
Rubbish. You signed on the dotted line yourself when nobody else was willing to give you a job. I agree that in the way things are going it is not the best deal around but you were to 'blame' for accepting the deal
However, we can now get our large payrise, to bring us up to normal terms and conditions. We can do it by taking our experience, training and multiple type ratings to another employer - leaving a large hole in employee numbers, hundreds of captains in the RHS and cancelled flights everywhere.
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Hundredpercentplease - welcome to the real world of easyjet! The management could not give two monkeys about how much you are paid compared to the next guy. They are just congratulating themselves that they managed to con you and many others like you onto a scheme that resulted in their bonuses being increased. The only way to beat these idiots is to all pull in the same direction and have a good strong team through balpa. Remember, their gameplan is and always has been divide and conquer.
If you dont like the outcome of the talks, do what over 130 people did last year and leave! There are better jobs out there both in terms of pay and lifestyle.
If you dont like the outcome of the talks, do what over 130 people did last year and leave! There are better jobs out there both in terms of pay and lifestyle.
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HundredPercentPlease, I totally agree with you! On top of that, maybe the cadets should ask their 60k back too, don't you think? At the time it was the only way to join easy, now every boy and girl with a rating and 500 hours can get in. That is not fair. Pay them back their 60k.
Same for the ATP-scheme guys, give them back their six months of free labour, plus any costs they might have incurred while training (60k). Even some base captains are ex ATP!
Whaddayasay, will you join the struggle?
Same for the ATP-scheme guys, give them back their six months of free labour, plus any costs they might have incurred while training (60k). Even some base captains are ex ATP!
Whaddayasay, will you join the struggle?
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Come on, guys,
be realistic! You signed this damned contract and you got to live with it!
This is just another side of pilots life, up and downs!
I joined once also in a "down" and had to live with it-but took the consequence!
be realistic! You signed this damned contract and you got to live with it!
This is just another side of pilots life, up and downs!
I joined once also in a "down" and had to live with it-but took the consequence!