Ryanair waiting for line training
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Ryanair waiting for line training
For all future Ryanair pilots or wannabes be advised that there is a very long waiting period between the end of the type rating course and commencement of line training.
The reasons given are a shortage of line training captains, conversion of all B737-200 crews onto B737-800, late arrival of new airplanes due to Boeing strike……etc
I believe that it’s just poor management, no one working in the training (rostering) department and the simple fact that Ryanair doesn’t seem to care about its pilots (or any other employee).
Some pilots who finished the type rating course at the end of July are still waiting to start line training….not paid. The only sim time during this period is circuit training approx once a month.
Cheers
The reasons given are a shortage of line training captains, conversion of all B737-200 crews onto B737-800, late arrival of new airplanes due to Boeing strike……etc
I believe that it’s just poor management, no one working in the training (rostering) department and the simple fact that Ryanair doesn’t seem to care about its pilots (or any other employee).
Some pilots who finished the type rating course at the end of July are still waiting to start line training….not paid. The only sim time during this period is circuit training approx once a month.
Cheers
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Thanks RYR123 for that. Your immediate respondents don't seem to have picked up that you were providing a warning. Having recently spoken to one of the many other pilots in this predicament at the moment - and who just follow the previous cadets, etc. who went through a similar predicament - can I just support the value of your adding this information here with the following observations:
1. RYR123's is not a second hand report - which we often see here.
2. What he says has applied to many pilots, past and present.
3. What many prospective Ryanair pilots don't realise is that the pilots in this situation are often bonded and find it close to impossible to leave. Alternatively they have borrowed large sums to pay for a rating.
4. What they also tend to miss is that such pilots are not paid until after they have completed line training - and even then the rate of pay can be very poor.
5. The "let them rot until we are ready" syndrome is part of the "put pilots in their place" and show them who is boss style of management beloved by Ryanair. It has the added advantage, learned from Eastern European cabin crew, that employees with debts tend to be well behaved and prepared to work very hard - even to the point of appearing to forget that there are rules involving fitness for duty.
6. The one thing I disagree about is that it reflects poor managemet. I can assure you that if the pilots concerned were costing Ryanair anything, they would become productive very quickly indeed.
1. RYR123's is not a second hand report - which we often see here.
2. What he says has applied to many pilots, past and present.
3. What many prospective Ryanair pilots don't realise is that the pilots in this situation are often bonded and find it close to impossible to leave. Alternatively they have borrowed large sums to pay for a rating.
4. What they also tend to miss is that such pilots are not paid until after they have completed line training - and even then the rate of pay can be very poor.
5. The "let them rot until we are ready" syndrome is part of the "put pilots in their place" and show them who is boss style of management beloved by Ryanair. It has the added advantage, learned from Eastern European cabin crew, that employees with debts tend to be well behaved and prepared to work very hard - even to the point of appearing to forget that there are rules involving fitness for duty.
6. The one thing I disagree about is that it reflects poor managemet. I can assure you that if the pilots concerned were costing Ryanair anything, they would become productive very quickly indeed.
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I've been waiting since the summer for line training.
Don't be fooled into working here. They don't give a crap about you waiting at home for four or five months on no pay. No communication, just that they "Will get back to you".
Ask yourself can you afford to live with out any wages for the best part of 6 months if you want to come to work here?
Until the base Check is done we don\'t have a type rating we can\'t leave, they have us by the balls.
They have made no effort to clear the backlog, except cancel an order for a 3rd 800 sim until the summer.
Don't be fooled into working here. They don't give a crap about you waiting at home for four or five months on no pay. No communication, just that they "Will get back to you".
Ask yourself can you afford to live with out any wages for the best part of 6 months if you want to come to work here?
Until the base Check is done we don\'t have a type rating we can\'t leave, they have us by the balls.
They have made no effort to clear the backlog, except cancel an order for a 3rd 800 sim until the summer.
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Captains getting looked after first with no delay because they are so short of them. 737 rated peeps being put through with little delay also. Others being left to rot for over 4 months including guys with commands elsewhere and buckets of jet time. We haven't even started flying and most are planning where they are going to go when they leave asap!
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I find it quite amazing how many people have put themselves into this position with FR as this has been a known problem for a long time. Had you done any research at all, and not removed all objectivtity from the equation, you would have known this was exactly the outcome you could expect on joining FR. So either a) you did the research and still joined, which shows a severe lack of judgement or b) you didn't do the research, which is just plain stupid.
Reality can be a harsh travelling companion in Ryanair. Other wannabes, you have been warned. Yet again. Time to learn your lessons.
Reality can be a harsh travelling companion in Ryanair. Other wannabes, you have been warned. Yet again. Time to learn your lessons.
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In the meantime not only do you receive no salery but you still have to pay that big fat loan you took out to pay for your FR type rating. Also the longer it goes on the more chance of failing the base or line check you will have.
You were warned many times so it's your own fault. You have made your bed so lie in it or get up and go elsewhere.
You were warned many times so it's your own fault. You have made your bed so lie in it or get up and go elsewhere.
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Oh I think I'm doing quite nicely where I am thanks very much.
T/R, Base Cx and Line training complete within 8 weeks and the pays pretty good too, oh and fully paid during the course.
FR has always been like this, the biggest hook they have is the recruitment of low hour pilots, many of whom (and note I don't say all) are desperate for employment with mounting debts and therefore willing to accept completely ludicrous T & C's which drives other companies down the same route and permeates through our profession like a cancer.
Sorry to say but if you'd read through the shiny recruitment c$$p and looked at the real picture you probably wouldn't be there.
Only yourselves to blame
T/R, Base Cx and Line training complete within 8 weeks and the pays pretty good too, oh and fully paid during the course.
FR has always been like this, the biggest hook they have is the recruitment of low hour pilots, many of whom (and note I don't say all) are desperate for employment with mounting debts and therefore willing to accept completely ludicrous T & C's which drives other companies down the same route and permeates through our profession like a cancer.
Sorry to say but if you'd read through the shiny recruitment c$$p and looked at the real picture you probably wouldn't be there.
Only yourselves to blame
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To all of you that think you know better, and how foolish we have all been I suggest you shut up! No pilot in the land could have foreseen the problems encountered after type training!!!!
we'll all be earning more than the majority of all other Pilot's elsewhere
I suggest that YOU get your facts straight, and prepare to face what is coming.
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Some of you posting here obviously have a problem with RYR and its employees.
1) Do not blame people who pay for their training as driving down T's and C's for everybody else. I think you will find that every airlines terms and conditions have been eroded over time due to the nature of the industry.
2) Teh fact that some people have to wait is unfortunate and i sympathise, but RYR are very busy recruiting and training at the moment and thats just the way it is.
3)Are some of you honestly saying that this has never happened before to employees with other airlines. I can think of numerous examples.
4)I was a cadet at RYR - i used to clear 2k a month net, you cant tell me thats bad, i bet its as much as anywhere else.
Camelair - how can you research the state of the training department? Are you suggesting that prospective RYR employees should take what is written here as gospel?
wobble2plank - you should be ashamed of yourself for your last sentence, smartasses like you spoil the job.
A last final point, in the UK as far as i am aware you need to complete base training before the CAA will issuse the addition of a type rating on your licence, therefore how would you suggest a person trained by RYR to the LST, then goes about completing the circuits? (another airline? new sops?) offers please.
1) Do not blame people who pay for their training as driving down T's and C's for everybody else. I think you will find that every airlines terms and conditions have been eroded over time due to the nature of the industry.
2) Teh fact that some people have to wait is unfortunate and i sympathise, but RYR are very busy recruiting and training at the moment and thats just the way it is.
3)Are some of you honestly saying that this has never happened before to employees with other airlines. I can think of numerous examples.
4)I was a cadet at RYR - i used to clear 2k a month net, you cant tell me thats bad, i bet its as much as anywhere else.
Camelair - how can you research the state of the training department? Are you suggesting that prospective RYR employees should take what is written here as gospel?
wobble2plank - you should be ashamed of yourself for your last sentence, smartasses like you spoil the job.
A last final point, in the UK as far as i am aware you need to complete base training before the CAA will issuse the addition of a type rating on your licence, therefore how would you suggest a person trained by RYR to the LST, then goes about completing the circuits? (another airline? new sops?) offers please.
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Nope, not really, I've just been in it for a long time and see it for the job it is.
I really, really do sympathise for those cadets/Low hour guys who are stuck on the bottom rung. I also have a great deal of respect for those with the balls to follow their wishes and outlay huge sums of money in the pursuit of their 'dream' career. We need more of this calibre of people in this country rather than those who draw the dole 'cause it's all too difficult'.
What I don't have time for is those people who willingly enter into a contract with blatantly poor T & C's, sign on the dotted line and then complain when they are left hanging at the whim of poor management.
As to the erosion of T & C's you are quite correct, they have been eroded across the board, but sit back and think where the erosion comes from. FR churns out disgruntled pilots, not all of them, true, but a fair few who then fill up the next airline and the next and the next. A surplus of any commodity will lead to it's reduction in value.
So, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the pilots per se but I am telling those who entered this willingly to, maybe, next time have a closer look at the small print.
And generally I've always been a very mellow chap to fly with, no complaints yet
Have fun
I really, really do sympathise for those cadets/Low hour guys who are stuck on the bottom rung. I also have a great deal of respect for those with the balls to follow their wishes and outlay huge sums of money in the pursuit of their 'dream' career. We need more of this calibre of people in this country rather than those who draw the dole 'cause it's all too difficult'.
What I don't have time for is those people who willingly enter into a contract with blatantly poor T & C's, sign on the dotted line and then complain when they are left hanging at the whim of poor management.
As to the erosion of T & C's you are quite correct, they have been eroded across the board, but sit back and think where the erosion comes from. FR churns out disgruntled pilots, not all of them, true, but a fair few who then fill up the next airline and the next and the next. A surplus of any commodity will lead to it's reduction in value.
So, don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the pilots per se but I am telling those who entered this willingly to, maybe, next time have a closer look at the small print.
And generally I've always been a very mellow chap to fly with, no complaints yet
Have fun
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Eager:
I will blame people as many other will for those that fund their own ratings. This debate has raged on for a few years now but its is clear that those carriers that do ask for you to pay for your job are feeling the pinch and it will only get worse. A few ads I have seen lately even go as far as making it clear that SSTR is not required only a bond. Easy and Ryan are in a pickle and from what we are seeing its only going to get worse.
Anyone willing to pay for a rating in this environment is 'Financially Challenged'. No offense to any of you out there but turbo-prop operators in the UK are screeming for pilots so go get a free rating and build some multi crew time. Before you know it a WELL ESTABLISHED carrier will give you a rating and full salary from the day you join. Serioulsy folks..................
I will blame people as many other will for those that fund their own ratings. This debate has raged on for a few years now but its is clear that those carriers that do ask for you to pay for your job are feeling the pinch and it will only get worse. A few ads I have seen lately even go as far as making it clear that SSTR is not required only a bond. Easy and Ryan are in a pickle and from what we are seeing its only going to get worse.
Anyone willing to pay for a rating in this environment is 'Financially Challenged'. No offense to any of you out there but turbo-prop operators in the UK are screeming for pilots so go get a free rating and build some multi crew time. Before you know it a WELL ESTABLISHED carrier will give you a rating and full salary from the day you join. Serioulsy folks..................
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Are you suggesting that prospective RYR employees should take what is written here as gospel?
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Pressman,
I se your point and understand where it's coming from but remember that everyone started at the bottom in this industry. There is no magical leap to captaincy and a larger pay packet with benefits. We all started on crappy pay but with the prospects of hard work earning us the benefits and lifestyles that we now expect. Should we rob peter to pay paul? Good question and one that BALPA has been couching for a long time. Should I feel personally guilty that new pilots have a worse start in their careers? Probably not, I was also there once with large debts, a cr**py car and no money. Should the experienced ones point out the pitfalls and offer advice, no matter how painful it may be? Yes I believe so.
Can we really negotiate better T & C's across the board? No I really don't think so. This environment is not as stable as it once was and job security, irrespective of where it is, is not what it once was. Should we throw rocks when we live in a fragile glass house? Probably not what you want to hear but it's the truth,
Congratulations on your new job, so long as you enter it with eyes wide open I am sure you shall enjoy it. Look at yourself in twenty years and ask yourself the same questions.
Have fun
I se your point and understand where it's coming from but remember that everyone started at the bottom in this industry. There is no magical leap to captaincy and a larger pay packet with benefits. We all started on crappy pay but with the prospects of hard work earning us the benefits and lifestyles that we now expect. Should we rob peter to pay paul? Good question and one that BALPA has been couching for a long time. Should I feel personally guilty that new pilots have a worse start in their careers? Probably not, I was also there once with large debts, a cr**py car and no money. Should the experienced ones point out the pitfalls and offer advice, no matter how painful it may be? Yes I believe so.
Can we really negotiate better T & C's across the board? No I really don't think so. This environment is not as stable as it once was and job security, irrespective of where it is, is not what it once was. Should we throw rocks when we live in a fragile glass house? Probably not what you want to hear but it's the truth,
Congratulations on your new job, so long as you enter it with eyes wide open I am sure you shall enjoy it. Look at yourself in twenty years and ask yourself the same questions.
Have fun
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"5 Year deal - spare a thought for new entrants" - err no thanks! All new entrants have the ability to make their own choice (take it or leave it) Take what's offered and accept it for what it is! Reject it en mass and it MAY change at some stage in the future! By accepting it you are defacto weakening the position of the existing employees since the company will always pull out the old card "if you don't like it then leave - there are plenty of guys out there willing to take your place".
5 Year deal??? Thanx but THAT's for us guys already here trying to maintain our situation sorry!
5 Year deal??? Thanx but THAT's for us guys already here trying to maintain our situation sorry!
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STOP HIJACKING THIS THREAD!!
I never read anything anywhere here or elsewhere that said we would be waiting for 4 months for line training/Base Checks etc.
I was fully aware of what I was getting into, but nothing was said about 4 months waiting to start work.
This is about being given the mushroom treatment because we are Cadets. Not as much as a phone call in all this time to let us know what was happening, just e-mails telling us soon, etc.
I never read anything anywhere here or elsewhere that said we would be waiting for 4 months for line training/Base Checks etc.
I was fully aware of what I was getting into, but nothing was said about 4 months waiting to start work.
This is about being given the mushroom treatment because we are Cadets. Not as much as a phone call in all this time to let us know what was happening, just e-mails telling us soon, etc.
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Sorry to hear you guys are having such a bad ride! I joined from another airline back in april. It seems that guys who are already rated on the 737 are given priority as they need the pilots on line and they take far less line training. From my starting at east mids to be line checked was about 5 or 6 weeks for me as only had to do 3sims and 24 sectors line training. But saying that a few of the cadets that were at east mids when I was there are now line checked and on line so i guess there are a lucky few. Just hope you guys get started soon!