Monarch Crisis
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Hmmm.......
Well I am sitting on a tropical beach at the moment, so I can't pretend to have my finger on the pulse, but.......
When I left home last week :
The company was recruiting a number of new First officers for its planned expansion this winter.
The company was planning a number of new commands for same expansion and natural growth.
I didn't see too many people sulking about the improvement to some of the career progression.
It is true that the company are seeking to address the shortfall in the pension funding by increasing the contributions from the members. Nobody is particularly happy at having to pay significant increases for the same benefits but there is no radical shakeup to those benefits. There are options for members who do not wish to subscribe either fully partially or at all. Many large companies in the UK have also had to address the same problem and the problem is not unique. It is true that there is significant disquiet on this issue, but as far as I am aware it is being discussed without the excitement you suggest ?
If I find any of the unhappy bunch who are subject to the big shake up and who are going on strike I will ask them to let you know.
Well I am sitting on a tropical beach at the moment, so I can't pretend to have my finger on the pulse, but.......
When I left home last week :
The company was recruiting a number of new First officers for its planned expansion this winter.
The company was planning a number of new commands for same expansion and natural growth.
I didn't see too many people sulking about the improvement to some of the career progression.
It is true that the company are seeking to address the shortfall in the pension funding by increasing the contributions from the members. Nobody is particularly happy at having to pay significant increases for the same benefits but there is no radical shakeup to those benefits. There are options for members who do not wish to subscribe either fully partially or at all. Many large companies in the UK have also had to address the same problem and the problem is not unique. It is true that there is significant disquiet on this issue, but as far as I am aware it is being discussed without the excitement you suggest ?
If I find any of the unhappy bunch who are subject to the big shake up and who are going on strike I will ask them to let you know.
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Jetdriver,
I think you are wearing the wrong type of shades on the beach.
Your post on the whole is pretty much correct , except your perception of the level of disquiet.Rose tints are definately not your colour. I wouldn't wish to launder our dirty smalls in such a public domain but I do believe a balanced view be provided to potential new joiners.
Active members of the Final Salary Pension scheme are being shafted. The scheme, like many, has a massive deficit, well it did at the last tri-anual valuation in June 2004. As jetdriver pointed out this is nothing unusual and the Company have admirably accepted responsibility for this deficit with a plan to erradicate it over a 15 year period. However, now for the shafting, the Company are now saying that they are no longer prepared to fund future benefits to the same level as we have enjoyed in the past. Ultimately, to maintain current accrual rates, individuals are being told that their contribution level will have to increase by 4.66% of salary, bringing the level of individual contribution to a whopping 14.66% and the Company are going to contribute a little less than this (13.something%). Where is the shafting some might ask, well in the past we enjoyed a contribution ratio of 2:1, ie the Company payed twice the rate of individual contribution. Based on this, bearing in mind that this is using current (sensible) investment returns and up to date longivety statistics for future accrual, we should only need to contribute approx 9.5%.
This is not the only change to the scheme for future accrual. The level of inflation protection has been changed from a sensible cap of 5% to a cap of 2.5%. A big difference if there are any periods of inflation greater than 2.5% once one starts to draw ones pension.
These major changes were introduced with out any discussion or negotiation with the Members of the scheme.
It doesn't affect the new joiners directly as the scheme has been closed to new members since 2003. They all received their shafting before they joined last year when the Company changed the Contract for new joiners, with far inferior terms and conditions. Having said that they can't have been that bad as 70+ pilots joined last year and many more are applying for this winter.
The pension issue is far from resolved, I just hope that the Company have the sense to negotiate before the disquiet boils over to something unsavory.
I think you are wearing the wrong type of shades on the beach.
Your post on the whole is pretty much correct , except your perception of the level of disquiet.Rose tints are definately not your colour. I wouldn't wish to launder our dirty smalls in such a public domain but I do believe a balanced view be provided to potential new joiners.
Active members of the Final Salary Pension scheme are being shafted. The scheme, like many, has a massive deficit, well it did at the last tri-anual valuation in June 2004. As jetdriver pointed out this is nothing unusual and the Company have admirably accepted responsibility for this deficit with a plan to erradicate it over a 15 year period. However, now for the shafting, the Company are now saying that they are no longer prepared to fund future benefits to the same level as we have enjoyed in the past. Ultimately, to maintain current accrual rates, individuals are being told that their contribution level will have to increase by 4.66% of salary, bringing the level of individual contribution to a whopping 14.66% and the Company are going to contribute a little less than this (13.something%). Where is the shafting some might ask, well in the past we enjoyed a contribution ratio of 2:1, ie the Company payed twice the rate of individual contribution. Based on this, bearing in mind that this is using current (sensible) investment returns and up to date longivety statistics for future accrual, we should only need to contribute approx 9.5%.
This is not the only change to the scheme for future accrual. The level of inflation protection has been changed from a sensible cap of 5% to a cap of 2.5%. A big difference if there are any periods of inflation greater than 2.5% once one starts to draw ones pension.
These major changes were introduced with out any discussion or negotiation with the Members of the scheme.
It doesn't affect the new joiners directly as the scheme has been closed to new members since 2003. They all received their shafting before they joined last year when the Company changed the Contract for new joiners, with far inferior terms and conditions. Having said that they can't have been that bad as 70+ pilots joined last year and many more are applying for this winter.
The pension issue is far from resolved, I just hope that the Company have the sense to negotiate before the disquiet boils over to something unsavory.
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Thanks slamitin,
I thought my perception of the level as disquiet as"significant" was reasonably balanced, but the use of the term "shafted" adds an alternative descriptive. The final salary pension is of little concern to the new joiners or recent joiners as they ( as you have already pointed out) don't have it as part of their terms and conditions. I am slightly confused as to your perception of how an individual who signs to a set of terms and conditions is being "shafted" when those terms and conditions are being honoured in full, but perhaps that is not really your point ?
The pension scheme is a point of contention to its existing members, but I am not sure what suggestions (within the current and forthcoming statutory requirements ) you are proffering as an alternative to the proposed damage repair ? If you have any then why not put them on the private forum ? The observation in answer to the posters question was based on the situation as it really exists within the company. Of course if I return next week only to be met hoards of pilots consumed by this overboiled unsavouryness I will instantly place a correction on this thread.
I thought my perception of the level as disquiet as"significant" was reasonably balanced, but the use of the term "shafted" adds an alternative descriptive. The final salary pension is of little concern to the new joiners or recent joiners as they ( as you have already pointed out) don't have it as part of their terms and conditions. I am slightly confused as to your perception of how an individual who signs to a set of terms and conditions is being "shafted" when those terms and conditions are being honoured in full, but perhaps that is not really your point ?
The pension scheme is a point of contention to its existing members, but I am not sure what suggestions (within the current and forthcoming statutory requirements ) you are proffering as an alternative to the proposed damage repair ? If you have any then why not put them on the private forum ? The observation in answer to the posters question was based on the situation as it really exists within the company. Of course if I return next week only to be met hoards of pilots consumed by this overboiled unsavouryness I will instantly place a correction on this thread.
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NiteKos,
If it is my credentials that you are questioning, then no, I am still a fully fledged active member of the spotty M final salary scheme. Proud to be classed as being "significantly disquiet" and as much as it pains me would be willing to boil over to something unsavoury if the need arises.
Stirring, no. Providing a balanced perspective to Jetdrivers post on this thread, yes. I look forward to his correction as promised.
If it is my credentials that you are questioning, then no, I am still a fully fledged active member of the spotty M final salary scheme. Proud to be classed as being "significantly disquiet" and as much as it pains me would be willing to boil over to something unsavoury if the need arises.
Stirring, no. Providing a balanced perspective to Jetdrivers post on this thread, yes. I look forward to his correction as promised.
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Hopefully some action will now be taken to stand up to the dictatorial approach the company has taken in the last few years. Unfortunately most of the members of the company council are on the maximum salary(B-scale),flying the widebodies and not far off from retirement age of 55 so a lot of the pay talks and pensions don't concern them, which surely affects their negotiating position.(I'm sure there'll be a response to that along the lines of, why don't you run for council etc but the idea of having elected members is to put forward the ideas and concerns raised.) This is how the younger membership feels.
The company introduced a 4.75% or so pay increase in the last round of talks, however, to maintain the benefits of the pension, we have to increase our contributions to fund it.I think the MD's using Gordon Brown's Stealth Tax model for that, being an accountant!!
I can apprectiate why the MD has been cutting costs and he is seeing how far he can push the work-force but this has to STOP, a line has now got to be drawn. I think the recent vote by the membership(over 90%) has shown that it has the backing of the majority for this action.
So as you can see, it's not all rosy at spotty M!!
The company introduced a 4.75% or so pay increase in the last round of talks, however, to maintain the benefits of the pension, we have to increase our contributions to fund it.I think the MD's using Gordon Brown's Stealth Tax model for that, being an accountant!!
I can apprectiate why the MD has been cutting costs and he is seeing how far he can push the work-force but this has to STOP, a line has now got to be drawn. I think the recent vote by the membership(over 90%) has shown that it has the backing of the majority for this action.
So as you can see, it's not all rosy at spotty M!!
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So why exactly is this thread on here?? Maybe some professional curtesy and continue this on OUR forum?? Don't think the rest of the industrie needs to know about how things are going 'ey?? Or is someone seeking for some outside attention?
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I think the original post was from someone outside Monarch, and others are from people in it. It probably is best kept on our forum for now, but yes, I think there is unrest coming up, if not a crisis (yet).
I take it JD is closer than me to getting his pension.......
I take it JD is closer than me to getting his pension.......
NiteKos . If u mean me mate, nope. All tickety boo out in the sandpit ta very much. Well sorta anyhow 
Still enjoying multiple AGP's and ALC's, how i miss 'em (not).
Anyhow, i wish my Spotty m Brethren good luck!!!
EGGW.
Still enjoying multiple AGP's and ALC's, how i miss 'em (not).
Anyhow, i wish my Spotty m Brethren good luck!!!
EGGW.
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As a current Monarch captain with 15 years to go, I would like to say Jet Drivers posts on here have been, imho, the closest to the target.
I dont understand what loman1 is trying to say. I see he resides in the US according to his profile.
Yes, we are concerned about how we resolve our pension shortfall, and strenuous effort is being expended by our council reps to address the company's lame attempt to shift responsibility for it onto our shoulders.
There was considerable disquiet earlier this year when they (the company) tried to unilaterally introduce a seperate payscale with all its implications. That has been resolved to most peoples satisfaction but required a ballot re industrial action.
I dont understand what loman1 is trying to say. I see he resides in the US according to his profile.
Yes, we are concerned about how we resolve our pension shortfall, and strenuous effort is being expended by our council reps to address the company's lame attempt to shift responsibility for it onto our shoulders.
There was considerable disquiet earlier this year when they (the company) tried to unilaterally introduce a seperate payscale with all its implications. That has been resolved to most peoples satisfaction but required a ballot re industrial action.
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DOORSTOP
I think you should review the make up of the Monarch CC,
I think you will find that you are way off the mark.
Please bear in mind that their time and effort is voluntary, the only thanks they get are a few brief acknowledgements,for a job well done on these and other forums!
I think you should review the make up of the Monarch CC,
I think you will find that you are way off the mark.
Please bear in mind that their time and effort is voluntary, the only thanks they get are a few brief acknowledgements,for a job well done on these and other forums!
Post deleted to preserve original thread.
Suggest the thread name ought to be changed & moved from
R & N. Maybe even moved to the Monarch forum.
Suggest the thread name ought to be changed & moved from
R & N. Maybe even moved to the Monarch forum.
Last edited by Mr A Tis; 28th Sep 2005 at 05:32.
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MANTHRUST
Ooh, MANTHRUST, did I hit a raw nerve!
I Think you'll find that I'm fairly accurate, most of the CC being on top increments and B scale, yes there are others that are not.
Yes, I'm aware that it is voluntary, I have served on CCs before but if there not doing there job, or doing it for there own benefit, ie not rocking the boat so as they get widebody commands, then they don't deserve praise. As I mentioned earlier, being in the position they're in they need to be unbiased in their representation of their colleague on the bottom of the seniority list as well as someone close to retirement!!
The fact is things need to be done to stop the management intimidation.
I would agree that this is not the place in open forum but especially as was highlighted to me recently by new joiners, they were not aware of the complete picture before they joined. I myself have not got long to go but to colleague with 10-20 years to go, young family etc I would look elsewhere with better T&C's. Even not being part of our Final salary scheme, it is not the only issue and will inevitably be drawn into the dispute.
Pre P Brown it was a completely different company, one which those wishing to join the Charter Sector would aspire, no longer I fear.
I Think you'll find that I'm fairly accurate, most of the CC being on top increments and B scale, yes there are others that are not.
Yes, I'm aware that it is voluntary, I have served on CCs before but if there not doing there job, or doing it for there own benefit, ie not rocking the boat so as they get widebody commands, then they don't deserve praise. As I mentioned earlier, being in the position they're in they need to be unbiased in their representation of their colleague on the bottom of the seniority list as well as someone close to retirement!!
The fact is things need to be done to stop the management intimidation.
I would agree that this is not the place in open forum but especially as was highlighted to me recently by new joiners, they were not aware of the complete picture before they joined. I myself have not got long to go but to colleague with 10-20 years to go, young family etc I would look elsewhere with better T&C's. Even not being part of our Final salary scheme, it is not the only issue and will inevitably be drawn into the dispute.
Pre P Brown it was a completely different company, one which those wishing to join the Charter Sector would aspire, no longer I fear.
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Mr A Tis
You sad individual.
Seeing as you obviously read Skytrax, how pathetic your statments are to read.
Take a look at the majority of UK charter and indeed scheduled carriers, and you will find a common thread....full of complaints.
You have a bad flight, you complain. Who can be bothered to write that their flight was fine...nothing special, but just fine. That, I think you will find, is the majority opinion of all passengers who fly...not just Monarch, but with most carriers.
I would love to know how you've managed to survey most of Monarch's passenger who are all saying "never again".
...Now, get a life my friend and wind ya neck in.
You sad individual.
Seeing as you obviously read Skytrax, how pathetic your statments are to read.
Take a look at the majority of UK charter and indeed scheduled carriers, and you will find a common thread....full of complaints.
You have a bad flight, you complain. Who can be bothered to write that their flight was fine...nothing special, but just fine. That, I think you will find, is the majority opinion of all passengers who fly...not just Monarch, but with most carriers.
I would love to know how you've managed to survey most of Monarch's passenger who are all saying "never again".
...Now, get a life my friend and wind ya neck in.
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Mr A Tis,
There is no need to feel sorry for Mondriver.
Most company's, including Monarch, do their own passenger survey's via onboard questionare's. The outcome of these questionare's is much more reliable than the skytrax website.
It is a fact of life that most people are more likely to write a post about a bad experience and take a good experience for granted.
And if you followed the news lately than you would have noticed that Monarch had a 49% increase in passenger numbers. So obviously they are doing something right. But as always you just can't please everybody.
There is no need to feel sorry for Mondriver.
Most company's, including Monarch, do their own passenger survey's via onboard questionare's. The outcome of these questionare's is much more reliable than the skytrax website.
It is a fact of life that most people are more likely to write a post about a bad experience and take a good experience for granted.
And if you followed the news lately than you would have noticed that Monarch had a 49% increase in passenger numbers. So obviously they are doing something right. But as always you just can't please everybody.
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Your attitude obviously typifies the things that are wrong on the Monarch customer front.
How exactly??
Care to explain in your opinion what's exactly wrong on the Monarch customer front.... Since you're able to get that out of Mondrivers post. I can't, but maybe I lack the skills that you obivously do seem to have.
