What is going on at EZY?
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Guys
In Nov and Dec I was in both SXF and ORY and I personally took advertising material with me and placed it in crewrooms.
If this has been removed, perhaps we should look elsewhere at who is to blame.
Try not to tell us to get off our @rses - all of this is done in our own time.
In Nov and Dec I was in both SXF and ORY and I personally took advertising material with me and placed it in crewrooms.
If this has been removed, perhaps we should look elsewhere at who is to blame.
Try not to tell us to get off our @rses - all of this is done in our own time.
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Somehow I doubt now is the time for BALPA to run a recruitment drive in EZY. I've met a fair few guys recently who are considering leaving BALPA as a result of the current mess. The management must be laughing their legs off. I would have thought that now would be the time for rival unions to be pushing recruitment.
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Some interesting comments here. As far as getting off our arses... well I wonder where we would be if we hadn't. I seem to remember the no deice shambles and other similar events as being a bit of a pain if you were an EJ pilot. Does anybody really believe that the only reason for the progress on rostering since then has been the "excellent management" at EJ.
As far as the members / non-members debate..... well there will always be freeloaders in any organisation, but does anybody remember the "clickers", during the confontation between Frank Lorenzo, and his pilots.
Wonder how the easy freeloaders would feel about that ?.
As far as the members / non-members debate..... well there will always be freeloaders in any organisation, but does anybody remember the "clickers", during the confontation between Frank Lorenzo, and his pilots.
Wonder how the easy freeloaders would feel about that ?.
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FlapsOne and Muzza,
Please don´t get me wrong. I´m not a freeloader and I fully support BALPA, and when I joined BALPA I did so on my own initiative because I felt it was the right thing to do. Apart from one (very) brief talk on the first days of type training, I never heard from BALPA and I had to push some colleagues/friends/fencesitters very hard to sign up. As Basic-T stated, I´m convinced that a lot of present and future BALPA support can be gained from the overseas bases which continue to grow at a very fast pace.
I am very split on the 5-2-5-4 issue but I wont go into details on this public forum. Nevertheless I really DO appreciate all the CC´s efforts who worked very hard at this!
Last but not least I wish we had an easyJet forum here on PPRuNe, which would allow a bit more privacy in discussing these issues.
Please don´t get me wrong. I´m not a freeloader and I fully support BALPA, and when I joined BALPA I did so on my own initiative because I felt it was the right thing to do. Apart from one (very) brief talk on the first days of type training, I never heard from BALPA and I had to push some colleagues/friends/fencesitters very hard to sign up. As Basic-T stated, I´m convinced that a lot of present and future BALPA support can be gained from the overseas bases which continue to grow at a very fast pace.
I am very split on the 5-2-5-4 issue but I wont go into details on this public forum. Nevertheless I really DO appreciate all the CC´s efforts who worked very hard at this!
Last but not least I wish we had an easyJet forum here on PPRuNe, which would allow a bit more privacy in discussing these issues.
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Found on the net. Looks like it is not just the pilots who are having a spot of bother.
Easyjet accuses union of breaking trust over holiday pay talks
24 January 2005 03:17
The row between EasyJet and Amicus escalated last Friday, when the low-cost airline barred the union, which represents cabin crew staff, from a key meeting on trading.
EasyJet blocked access in protest at Amicus's decision to tell The Times about a clash between the two sides over holiday pay, blaming the union for breaking trust between the two sides. The airline carried on the meeting with Balpa, the pilots' union, and the Transport & General Workers union.
A spokesman for EasyJet said: "We have been discussing the issue of holiday pay with the union and we thought their decision to make that public was not conducive to trust between us and to us sharing market-sensitive information with them."
EasyJet has suggested another meeting next month after a cooling-off period.
Amicus has warned EasyJet that it will face legal action if it does not raise holiday pay to include regular bonus payments, which are made to cabin crew each time they fly.
At present, those bonuses – called sector pay – are paid only during flying duties and not for holiday periods. The union argues that this contravenes European working-time regulations as defined by the Employment Relations Act. They say the Act stipulates that holiday pay has to take account of regular bonus and commission payments.
EasyJet said that it was prepared to face employment tribunal action over the holiday pay dispute, as the practice is common in the airline industry.
Easyjet accuses union of breaking trust over holiday pay talks
24 January 2005 03:17
The row between EasyJet and Amicus escalated last Friday, when the low-cost airline barred the union, which represents cabin crew staff, from a key meeting on trading.
EasyJet blocked access in protest at Amicus's decision to tell The Times about a clash between the two sides over holiday pay, blaming the union for breaking trust between the two sides. The airline carried on the meeting with Balpa, the pilots' union, and the Transport & General Workers union.
A spokesman for EasyJet said: "We have been discussing the issue of holiday pay with the union and we thought their decision to make that public was not conducive to trust between us and to us sharing market-sensitive information with them."
EasyJet has suggested another meeting next month after a cooling-off period.
Amicus has warned EasyJet that it will face legal action if it does not raise holiday pay to include regular bonus payments, which are made to cabin crew each time they fly.
At present, those bonuses – called sector pay – are paid only during flying duties and not for holiday periods. The union argues that this contravenes European working-time regulations as defined by the Employment Relations Act. They say the Act stipulates that holiday pay has to take account of regular bonus and commission payments.
EasyJet said that it was prepared to face employment tribunal action over the holiday pay dispute, as the practice is common in the airline industry.
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Exactly....
If BALPA is so hopeless... let us all resign and hand management full control.... random rostering.. two weeks leave... 50% salary, and pay for all your training/accomodation/meals etc... It works for one company who dont seem short of crew... it would be easy for easy...
If the Continental bases want representation, then where are their volunteers? Thats what all the UK bases have had to provide. There aint no BALPA without pilots volunteering to represent! Same in every company, in every country.
ref the easyjet PpRuNe forum.. it still exists, but was taken off menus due to lack of interest.
easyJet forum
If BALPA is so hopeless... let us all resign and hand management full control.... random rostering.. two weeks leave... 50% salary, and pay for all your training/accomodation/meals etc... It works for one company who dont seem short of crew... it would be easy for easy...
If the Continental bases want representation, then where are their volunteers? Thats what all the UK bases have had to provide. There aint no BALPA without pilots volunteering to represent! Same in every company, in every country.
ref the easyjet PpRuNe forum.. it still exists, but was taken off menus due to lack of interest.
easyJet forum
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Outofsynch, don't draw comparisons with O'leary's mob, it's not on the British register. If this deal goes through you'll be down a block of leave and a substantial proportion of your roster will be random anyway. Too much of this proposal relies on the 'good faith' of crewing. There's more spin in it than a political manifesto. That's not progress.
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Orangetree
It's obvious you have not read all the documents relating to this proposal - it's certain you have not read the full details of the alleviation proposed/offered by the CAA (eg. the rolling totals averaging out at 40h per week!) - it's glaringly obvious you are unaware of the lengths to which EZ management will go, and have already tried to go, to secure what they have sought for 3 years.
The 'substantial' proportion you refer to is 6 weeks per year, with the other 2 being duties rostered and published the preceeding month.
The proposal also contains the caveat that, if, with gained experience, the reserve periods prove to be unnecessarily long, they will be reduced.
That beats the cr@p out of 52 weeks of random.
It's obvious you have not read all the documents relating to this proposal - it's certain you have not read the full details of the alleviation proposed/offered by the CAA (eg. the rolling totals averaging out at 40h per week!) - it's glaringly obvious you are unaware of the lengths to which EZ management will go, and have already tried to go, to secure what they have sought for 3 years.
The 'substantial' proportion you refer to is 6 weeks per year, with the other 2 being duties rostered and published the preceeding month.
The proposal also contains the caveat that, if, with gained experience, the reserve periods prove to be unnecessarily long, they will be reduced.
That beats the cr@p out of 52 weeks of random.
There has been a lot of discussion hear with the phrase 5/2/5/4 being quoted without any explanation of what it means and some of the posts, such as exhausted's:-
"I'd hazard a guess that whoever is involved in the negotiations for you guys will make sure that you are regularly rostered to work as close to 23:59 before a day off and as early as possible to 06:00 after a day off."
indicate that the pattern of 5/2/5/4 is not known outside of easy.
Now, I don't work for easy but the pattern was described to me as follows:-
First 5 days are earlies, followed by 2 days off, then 5 days of lates, followed by 4 days off, then back to 5 of earlies....
Therefore, if this is correct, exhausted's comment would not apply.
If I have got this totally wrong then would any easy pilot please correct me and accept my apology.
"I'd hazard a guess that whoever is involved in the negotiations for you guys will make sure that you are regularly rostered to work as close to 23:59 before a day off and as early as possible to 06:00 after a day off."
indicate that the pattern of 5/2/5/4 is not known outside of easy.
Now, I don't work for easy but the pattern was described to me as follows:-
First 5 days are earlies, followed by 2 days off, then 5 days of lates, followed by 4 days off, then back to 5 of earlies....
Therefore, if this is correct, exhausted's comment would not apply.
If I have got this totally wrong then would any easy pilot please correct me and accept my apology.
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Groundloop,
You are indeed correct that the essence of the rostering is to follow 5 earlies/ 2 days off / 5 lates / 4 days off and so on until after 16 weeks you do a month of reserve which is rostered randomly.
Unfortunately the company has produced a 'rostering protocol' (some of which has been published here) which reduces leave, takes back days off and reserves the right to vary the system as it sees fit.
The roster pattern is seen as a positive improvement but the restrictions of the protocol seem unacceptable to most.
You are indeed correct that the essence of the rostering is to follow 5 earlies/ 2 days off / 5 lates / 4 days off and so on until after 16 weeks you do a month of reserve which is rostered randomly.
Unfortunately the company has produced a 'rostering protocol' (some of which has been published here) which reduces leave, takes back days off and reserves the right to vary the system as it sees fit.
The roster pattern is seen as a positive improvement but the restrictions of the protocol seem unacceptable to most.
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Flapsone, its glaringly obvious that the weather is much brighter on your planet. It is glaringly obvious to me that I can have 68 hrs reduced to 66 between the rotation of earlies to 'lates'. In my base that can and will result in a stitch up. It's also glaringly obvious to me that this agreement leaves me with the same leave enjoyed by an officeworker..except they don't have to work through the night, do they?
Its glaringly obvious to me that I can work into a day off 5 times with it even counting towards a day off owed. If I wish to take the same leave as last year I have to work 5253 to make up the days. Try not to patronise in your attempt to cover up the mess BALPA have made.
Its glaringly obvious to me that I can work into a day off 5 times with it even counting towards a day off owed. If I wish to take the same leave as last year I have to work 5253 to make up the days. Try not to patronise in your attempt to cover up the mess BALPA have made.
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Well said orangetree!!!!
As for people whittering on about this being a public forum....so what????? If the company or BALPA for that matter are embarrased about this proposed deal, doesnt that suggest something? Virgin Atlantic give 35 days a year leave, with that increasing by 1 day per year of service up to a max of 40....Lets see how many people jump on me for letting that slip!
As for people whittering on about this being a public forum....so what????? If the company or BALPA for that matter are embarrased about this proposed deal, doesnt that suggest something? Virgin Atlantic give 35 days a year leave, with that increasing by 1 day per year of service up to a max of 40....Lets see how many people jump on me for letting that slip!
Jetjockey,
You could also let slip that at Virgin with 7 days leave taken you only get 2 wraparound days off. This means with one weeks leave taken get only 9 days off or with 2 weeks taken get 18 days off! Lets not compare apples with pears!
You could also let slip that at Virgin with 7 days leave taken you only get 2 wraparound days off. This means with one weeks leave taken get only 9 days off or with 2 weeks taken get 18 days off! Lets not compare apples with pears!
!!
(If I'm just being dense and that was sarcasm, I appologise).
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Unless that leave is taken in your flexible rostering period, which then only gives you nine days aswell. could happen twice a year couldnt it. 2 x 9 = 18, + 22 = 40!! yeah brilliant!
I think you will find that a day off in VA is a day off, like most other airlines.
I think you will find that a day off in VA is a day off, like most other airlines.
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I feel a little uneasy about discussing problems with EZY on either this forum or the inside easyjet forum. This forum is open to viewing by reporters mascarading as aircrew (how did the SXF incident get out??) or management gaining workers perceptions for forthcoming negotiations.
also, do you feel confident with the management not using words on the inside easyjet forum as evidence to deny a Captaincy, promotions have been held back for much less.
Also there is a forum for those who are willing to pay for air their views, at BALPA. Okay, some people are not members of Balpa because of dealings in the past.. Nice one!! a lower membership therefore reduces the negotiating power of the only union with negotiating rights!!. This in turn reduces the membership and the spiral dive ensues. The management are doing a damn fine job of divide and conquer, let's not make it easier for them...
Back to the BALPA website!!!
also, do you feel confident with the management not using words on the inside easyjet forum as evidence to deny a Captaincy, promotions have been held back for much less.
Also there is a forum for those who are willing to pay for air their views, at BALPA. Okay, some people are not members of Balpa because of dealings in the past.. Nice one!! a lower membership therefore reduces the negotiating power of the only union with negotiating rights!!. This in turn reduces the membership and the spiral dive ensues. The management are doing a damn fine job of divide and conquer, let's not make it easier for them...
Back to the BALPA website!!!
Er Jetjockey.....No!
If you are on a block of standbys before days off and you get called out on the last day you are obligated to work across your days off, albeit with days off payments. Even if you are rostered a flight before days off you can still get delayed downroute and miss important events back home.
If you are on a block of standbys before days off and you get called out on the last day you are obligated to work across your days off, albeit with days off payments. Even if you are rostered a flight before days off you can still get delayed downroute and miss important events back home.
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Ok guys, the deal is this:
Do we want to know our days off in advance up to next year.
Do we want to extend our lives by working a shift pattern that allows the body to acclimatise and remain in the shift for more than just 3 days.
Do we want to work for 5 instead of 6 days a 'week'
Do we want to get rid of rostered flexi days, and be pre-planned to be off duty before midnight on the last day.
Do we want to be less fatigued in a working week - as will hopefully be found by the scientific study taking place.
To me the answer to these must be YES.
The alternatives of remaining on 6/3 or reverting to random rosterring are not good.
There are no perfect solutions except winning millions on the lottery and retiring to a beach away from work. So with this being the best offer on the table, then we must accept it. Then next year negotiations can take place which can maybe fine tune it more in our favour.
Seriously folks, the alternatives to the 5/2/5/4 are not going to make our lives better.
Do we want to know our days off in advance up to next year.
Do we want to extend our lives by working a shift pattern that allows the body to acclimatise and remain in the shift for more than just 3 days.
Do we want to work for 5 instead of 6 days a 'week'
Do we want to get rid of rostered flexi days, and be pre-planned to be off duty before midnight on the last day.
Do we want to be less fatigued in a working week - as will hopefully be found by the scientific study taking place.
To me the answer to these must be YES.
The alternatives of remaining on 6/3 or reverting to random rosterring are not good.
There are no perfect solutions except winning millions on the lottery and retiring to a beach away from work. So with this being the best offer on the table, then we must accept it. Then next year negotiations can take place which can maybe fine tune it more in our favour.
Seriously folks, the alternatives to the 5/2/5/4 are not going to make our lives better.