What is going on at EZY?
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Not orange...
yes any union or recognised body is divisive. You wouldnt get 1000 to join a company 'union'. And a company union wouldnt give any of the non-industrial benefits that BALPA does offer. Therfore I, and probably 500-600 others wouldnt join. It would just divide us all further. The company still wins.
BALPA sure aint perfect. But no union or organisation can keep all the members happy, all the time. Or for free. It is just the democratic society we live in...
yes any union or recognised body is divisive. You wouldnt get 1000 to join a company 'union'. And a company union wouldnt give any of the non-industrial benefits that BALPA does offer. Therfore I, and probably 500-600 others wouldnt join. It would just divide us all further. The company still wins.
BALPA sure aint perfect. But no union or organisation can keep all the members happy, all the time. Or for free. It is just the democratic society we live in...
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the main block to joining for 'most' folks seem to be the cost vs the anticipated return.
obviously the return may be better the bigger the stick (membership) but on the basis of what we just negotiated it could be worse. (I voted NO by the way ).
I am not a fan of unions but feel that the low cost airlines will continue to erode conditions Industry wide . so therefore it becomes essential for us to support the company in it's drive to keep costs low BUT to at least have the power to say.. NO.. where it clearly affects our lives in an unacceptably detrimental way.
BALPA is not respected. a simple fact regardless of the perception being based on fact or simple implication due to the lack of membership uptake.
soooooo (here goes)... if the biggest block is the fact that Pilots are not willing to fork out to join based on the fact that they will not see a worthwhile return, then here's an alternative.........
Offer EVERY non-balpa pilot in EZY free membership on a 'reduced' basis for 1 year. absolutely free membership but for that one year all they get Is :
A: the right to vote on company proposals
B: Access to the free internet forum on the BALPA site.
they would not get any of the other beneifts of association, no representation , no mailed minutes (a bonus in my opinion) nothing that would cost BALPA any money at all apart from entering their name on the computer.
if that were the case you might get 90% uptake and be in a better position to make a majority case at the next round of talks.
once the year is up, if BALPA have made good use of the membership and made some ground them you might find a significant majority stay in. If you cock it up then they won't and neither will I.
while existing members might feel a little shafted (financially) they must be a way to even it out in year two when the benefits of the CC's masterful (?) negotiation may be felt......or something like that !
at the moment despite the hard work of the CC it's a case of the lesser of two evils for me.
oh, and as a last point CC members are elected because they wanted to be elected. no hot pokers were thrust in the vicinity of their rear ends when volunteers were requested....... with that in mind would the usual suspect PLEASE stop acting like kids and bleating about how hard they work and jumping on anyone who doesn't agree in a PC manner. deal with it.
the biggest fights are ahead of us not behind us, it might be worth remembering that.
obviously the return may be better the bigger the stick (membership) but on the basis of what we just negotiated it could be worse. (I voted NO by the way ).
I am not a fan of unions but feel that the low cost airlines will continue to erode conditions Industry wide . so therefore it becomes essential for us to support the company in it's drive to keep costs low BUT to at least have the power to say.. NO.. where it clearly affects our lives in an unacceptably detrimental way.
BALPA is not respected. a simple fact regardless of the perception being based on fact or simple implication due to the lack of membership uptake.
soooooo (here goes)... if the biggest block is the fact that Pilots are not willing to fork out to join based on the fact that they will not see a worthwhile return, then here's an alternative.........
Offer EVERY non-balpa pilot in EZY free membership on a 'reduced' basis for 1 year. absolutely free membership but for that one year all they get Is :
A: the right to vote on company proposals
B: Access to the free internet forum on the BALPA site.
they would not get any of the other beneifts of association, no representation , no mailed minutes (a bonus in my opinion) nothing that would cost BALPA any money at all apart from entering their name on the computer.
if that were the case you might get 90% uptake and be in a better position to make a majority case at the next round of talks.
once the year is up, if BALPA have made good use of the membership and made some ground them you might find a significant majority stay in. If you cock it up then they won't and neither will I.
while existing members might feel a little shafted (financially) they must be a way to even it out in year two when the benefits of the CC's masterful (?) negotiation may be felt......or something like that !
at the moment despite the hard work of the CC it's a case of the lesser of two evils for me.
oh, and as a last point CC members are elected because they wanted to be elected. no hot pokers were thrust in the vicinity of their rear ends when volunteers were requested....... with that in mind would the usual suspect PLEASE stop acting like kids and bleating about how hard they work and jumping on anyone who doesn't agree in a PC manner. deal with it.
the biggest fights are ahead of us not behind us, it might be worth remembering that.
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BALPA yes or no?
Fact is: game over! BALPA members did vote!
5-4-5-2 is the new game! Not everybody will like it.
I do not believe that there will be any improvement to negoiate in the next future!
The mangement must be satisfied. So many e-mails from all mangement levels to explain what a great deal for the pilots it will be!
This made the matter at least a little suspicious!
By the way, I think the idea of FLYING SCOTSMAN could be a way to go!
Fact is: game over! BALPA members did vote!
5-4-5-2 is the new game! Not everybody will like it.
I do not believe that there will be any improvement to negoiate in the next future!
The mangement must be satisfied. So many e-mails from all mangement levels to explain what a great deal for the pilots it will be!
This made the matter at least a little suspicious!
By the way, I think the idea of FLYING SCOTSMAN could be a way to go!
Join Date: Aug 2002
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flying scotsman - RESPECT!! 
Norman Stanley Fletcher -
"The fact is that every single pilot at easyjet, regardless of experience or nationality had the right to join BALPA and thereby could have voted in this election. If you choose not to join then you have to live with the consequences (and I do!)."
Only problem is that Balpa turned around and said "If you were not a member by xx date, you are not entitled to vote"... What kind of c**p was that about?? I mean, the company has hired quite a few pilots in the past months so it actually affected quite a few new pilots........
Norman Stanley Fletcher -
"The fact is that every single pilot at easyjet, regardless of experience or nationality had the right to join BALPA and thereby could have voted in this election. If you choose not to join then you have to live with the consequences (and I do!)."
Only problem is that Balpa turned around and said "If you were not a member by xx date, you are not entitled to vote"... What kind of c**p was that about?? I mean, the company has hired quite a few pilots in the past months so it actually affected quite a few new pilots........
Join Date: Jun 2001
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CaptainProp
The whole story please.....wouldn't want to mislead would we.
The first date put out was the date on which in was anticipated that ballot papers would be distributed ergo no more join to vote.
As it happened, the ballot was delayed and therefore, as announced on the company intranet, you could join right up to the date that the papers went out.
What's your problem with that?
The whole story please.....wouldn't want to mislead would we.
The first date put out was the date on which in was anticipated that ballot papers would be distributed ergo no more join to vote.
As it happened, the ballot was delayed and therefore, as announced on the company intranet, you could join right up to the date that the papers went out.
What's your problem with that?
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So anyway Flaps,
Didn't some folk at STN not get ballot papers.?
Can you tell me how many members in BALPA ... I hear its about 330. So that would mean about 130 voted Yes!!! out of some 1250 pilots.
Any EU laws about propotional representation??
Didn't some folk at STN not get ballot papers.?
Can you tell me how many members in BALPA ... I hear its about 330. So that would mean about 130 voted Yes!!! out of some 1250 pilots.
Any EU laws about propotional representation??
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Wiz, it's a credibility issue. The problem is when you and others say only 60 voted no you are disregarding the vast silent majority who wished also to say no. But thats all been covered already, and I think the Flying Scotsmans suggestion is spot on.
Ok so I can't prove that there is a vast silent majority, but can only go on what is said and heard in the crew room and what I read on the company web site. And there were clearly divided views and opinions spread company wide so really the fact that in the end so few of the total number of pilots made a change to what a lot of the pilots liked rankles a little.
Ok so I can't prove that there is a vast silent majority, but can only go on what is said and heard in the crew room and what I read on the company web site. And there were clearly divided views and opinions spread company wide so really the fact that in the end so few of the total number of pilots made a change to what a lot of the pilots liked rankles a little.
John Smith,
Get a life and stop searching for mischief.
If you had any credibility you would know that there has to be in excess of 50% membership of a companies pilots for it to be recognised as a union.
Get a life and stop searching for mischief.
If you had any credibility you would know that there has to be in excess of 50% membership of a companies pilots for it to be recognised as a union.
Voluntary recognition can be made with just one member. Above 50% you can force recognition.
If anyone knows of a more democratic system than free balloting of employees legally enfranchised to bargain collectively then, please, speak up. The world of Industrial Relations is waiting.
Cheers
WWW
If anyone knows of a more democratic system than free balloting of employees legally enfranchised to bargain collectively then, please, speak up. The world of Industrial Relations is waiting.
Cheers
WWW
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Mr Smith
The 330 figure you quote (in fact it should be 339) is only the number of people registered as users of the bulletin board, and not the total number of Balpa members. The figures have nothing to do with each other.
You are being fed duff gen Mr Smith, try another source!!!!
The 330 figure you quote (in fact it should be 339) is only the number of people registered as users of the bulletin board, and not the total number of Balpa members. The figures have nothing to do with each other.
You are being fed duff gen Mr Smith, try another source!!!!
Grim Sleeper
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This whole debate is laughable.
Whether you like Balpa or not, the Company was obliged to recognise Balpa as the sole negotiating body after pressure from the pilots.
Whatever you might think of Balpa, that is the way things are in EZY. So any negotiations on pay, terms & conditions are done through Balpa.
Those of us who are members have a say, a vote on the major issues, and a chance to represent our fellow pilots on the democratically elected Council. If we vote, then regardless of the result, at least we know we had a chance to make a real difference to our lot in life.
I do feel sorry for the pilots who are not members. You have no voice, no say, no idea of the debates, conclusions or options surrounding decisions on your pay or lifestyle. You have no outlet for your views, no representation, and then you have to swallow whatever the brothers vote for whether you like it or not.
It must be like drifting aimlessly on a open sea. No wonder you're all bitching like kids with broken toys.
And what amazes me more - when you get a cr@p deal it's all Balpa's fault! Imagine how much more generous the Company would have been if it hadn't been for those plutocratic, greedy fascists in Balpa trying to get a worse deal just to increase their membership!
You could swallow your pride and join up, form your own union, shut up your pointless whinging, or just keep on moaning in that infantile way that Balpa is spoiling your beautiful career at EZY. Since I doubt any of the bigmouth Balpa-bashers on this thread would go a million miles near pulling their thumbs out of their @rses and actually doing something constructive, I suspect the last option will be the landslide winner......
Whether you like Balpa or not, the Company was obliged to recognise Balpa as the sole negotiating body after pressure from the pilots.
Whatever you might think of Balpa, that is the way things are in EZY. So any negotiations on pay, terms & conditions are done through Balpa.
Those of us who are members have a say, a vote on the major issues, and a chance to represent our fellow pilots on the democratically elected Council. If we vote, then regardless of the result, at least we know we had a chance to make a real difference to our lot in life.
I do feel sorry for the pilots who are not members. You have no voice, no say, no idea of the debates, conclusions or options surrounding decisions on your pay or lifestyle. You have no outlet for your views, no representation, and then you have to swallow whatever the brothers vote for whether you like it or not.
It must be like drifting aimlessly on a open sea. No wonder you're all bitching like kids with broken toys.
And what amazes me more - when you get a cr@p deal it's all Balpa's fault! Imagine how much more generous the Company would have been if it hadn't been for those plutocratic, greedy fascists in Balpa trying to get a worse deal just to increase their membership!
You could swallow your pride and join up, form your own union, shut up your pointless whinging, or just keep on moaning in that infantile way that Balpa is spoiling your beautiful career at EZY. Since I doubt any of the bigmouth Balpa-bashers on this thread would go a million miles near pulling their thumbs out of their @rses and actually doing something constructive, I suspect the last option will be the landslide winner......
Mr Ree,
I also quite like Scotties suggestion, but with one reservation... What happens at the end of this one year of grace? A great many pilots will choose not to take up membership if they have to put their hands in their pockets. The next time a negotiation is voted on by those that have, the "Silent Majority" will get on here and in the crewroom and cry foul, and we are back to square one.
Anyone who doubts the value of BALPA recognition, go up a couple of threads and read what's going on at Ryan. Don't believe it wouldn't happen here without representation.
I'm sorry, but the "Silent Majority" where given the chance (In fact where just about begged!!) to put themselves in the position to vote on this and previous issues.
If you feel dis-enfranchised, all it will cost you this year is .5%...
I also quite like Scotties suggestion, but with one reservation... What happens at the end of this one year of grace? A great many pilots will choose not to take up membership if they have to put their hands in their pockets. The next time a negotiation is voted on by those that have, the "Silent Majority" will get on here and in the crewroom and cry foul, and we are back to square one.
Anyone who doubts the value of BALPA recognition, go up a couple of threads and read what's going on at Ryan. Don't believe it wouldn't happen here without representation.
I'm sorry, but the "Silent Majority" where given the chance (In fact where just about begged!!) to put themselves in the position to vote on this and previous issues.
If you feel dis-enfranchised, all it will cost you this year is .5%...
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Got what they wanted!! Er, rubik, when was the last time you heard of Pilots volunteering to give away 10 days leave in return for a roster scarcely any different from the one they had, plus accepting 2 - 3 mths chaos rostering per year, and none of the little details of the agreement made binding on the company?
All because the union threatened that it would be even worse if they did not go along with this.
Some union.
bye bye captains loyalty bonus next? Theyve already negotiated away the FO's. Nice of them, dont you think?
All because the union threatened that it would be even worse if they did not go along with this.
Some union.
bye bye captains loyalty bonus next? Theyve already negotiated away the FO's. Nice of them, dont you think?
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Whatever the union (BALPA) might have said or 'threatened' prior to the vote it would not be worse after the event. Had the vote failed the conditions would simply stay the same as they were prior to the vote. Were you threatened, Agaricus?
The pilots themsleves came up with the idea of the 5/2/5/4. The loss of leave was the price paid by the pilots to offset the fewer working days per year.
Why 2-3 months of chaos per year after the acceptance of the deal? Surely we only go through the changeover once?
Why some of you, perhaps within ezy as well as outside, are ready to sling hooks and arrows at the company when you appear to know little or nothing of the conditions within the company, is beyond me. If it was as bad as you seem to think pilots would be leaving in droves instead of easyJet being first on the list for many pilots seeking a job.
The pilots themsleves came up with the idea of the 5/2/5/4. The loss of leave was the price paid by the pilots to offset the fewer working days per year.
Why 2-3 months of chaos per year after the acceptance of the deal? Surely we only go through the changeover once?
Why some of you, perhaps within ezy as well as outside, are ready to sling hooks and arrows at the company when you appear to know little or nothing of the conditions within the company, is beyond me. If it was as bad as you seem to think pilots would be leaving in droves instead of easyJet being first on the list for many pilots seeking a job.
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rubik,
The "2-3 months chaos" is the 4 weeks random roster period after every 16 weeks 5254.
I worked 5254 for a while and (for me) it gave better quality of life, both during the working days, and the days off.
I don't mind losing a block of leave, since I get it back spread over the year.
I do mind not being able to plan my life for 4 weeks in 20, so this for me is the "price".
Given my exhaustion doing a shift change each and every week, I am willing to pay this price.
The amount of work I'll actually do each year will of course stay the same - namely 830 (ish) hours a year.
How anyone can get so upset with this change, I just cannot begin to understand.
Stu
The "2-3 months chaos" is the 4 weeks random roster period after every 16 weeks 5254.
I worked 5254 for a while and (for me) it gave better quality of life, both during the working days, and the days off.
I don't mind losing a block of leave, since I get it back spread over the year.
I do mind not being able to plan my life for 4 weeks in 20, so this for me is the "price".
Given my exhaustion doing a shift change each and every week, I am willing to pay this price.
The amount of work I'll actually do each year will of course stay the same - namely 830 (ish) hours a year.
How anyone can get so upset with this change, I just cannot begin to understand.
Stu
Thread Starter
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Rubik.......how on earth can you imply EZY is a target airline!.
Guys wanting a first job maybe!
People are starting to vote with their feet, from the top down, do a little research, you might suprise yourself.
Give me some of what your drinking
Guys wanting a first job maybe!
People are starting to vote with their feet, from the top down, do a little research, you might suprise yourself.
Give me some of what your drinking
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noflare
It's very interesting but your post is almost identical in the message it conveys as postings here on PPrune 3 and more years ago.
What's going on now, in terms of leavers numbers, is not a patch on the 2003-4 figures.
So some Base Capt's are moving on...........whoopeeeee doooo! There are plenty around to take their places and, in one case, everybody's highly delighted.
It's very interesting but your post is almost identical in the message it conveys as postings here on PPrune 3 and more years ago.
What's going on now, in terms of leavers numbers, is not a patch on the 2003-4 figures.
So some Base Capt's are moving on...........whoopeeeee doooo! There are plenty around to take their places and, in one case, everybody's highly delighted.
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There are only two things keeping me at easyjet, the loyalty bonus and an imminent free Airbus rating. Its not just base Captains who are leaving, some senior trainers have also resigned, not to mention 3 Captains from an already undercrewed Belfast. Decision time for me will come once I have 500hrs on the 319. Stability is on the slide at the moment, the company needs to buck up.