Virginia Plane

I know one ex-ERJ skipper who joined recently on the bus. I believe it was his only jet time.

10002level

Is there a preference for recruiting Airbus rated pilots at present? The reason I ask is because whilst several Boeing pilots I know have been recruited in the past, I know of only Airbus rated pilots being taken on of late.

Thanks

scroggs

Yes, there is a preference for Airbus (particularly A330/340) rated pilots. As we are taking delivery of a fairly monstrous number of A340-600s, that should be obvious! There is, however, a small amount of recruiting for the B744, and we have recently taken pilots to both types without an appropriate rating.

skid

any pointers to what to say/not to say at the interview?

srjumbo

Scroggs, Why has no-one from GSS (type rated) had an interview?

scroggs

srjumbo, um, dunno! As it happens, through a chance meeting in Hong Kong the other day, this subject has come up. I've put the question to the relevant people (actually both on holiday at this moment), so I await developments. There may, of course, be factors I'm not aware of, but at this point I can't imagine what they could be.

I can only advise keeping your fingers crossed, and your CV updated!

Be yourself. Have some understanding of what Virgin is about, and be enthusiastic about the prospects of working there. Don't dis RB!

Walter Sobchak

Hello,

do you update by sending an e-mail to Janine Taylor? Unfortunately I lost my reply of Virgin HR because of computer trouble. Would anyone be so kind and post the e-mail.

Thanks a lot,

the Walter

scroggs

[email protected]

Dan Winterland

sr jumbo - perhaps I can throw some light on the situation in answer your query. When Virgin were laying people off post 9/11, several of us who were rated on the 744 and below the redundancy cut wew interviewed by GSS and offered jobs. We were due to start early in 2002, but as G-GSSA took ages to put on the UK register, our start date got put back several times. However, as 2002 progressed - it appeared that our jobs with Virgin were likely to be safe and we wern't made redundant or put on unpaid leave, as the 744 had taken on most of the Classic's work and they couldn't afford to lose the 744 rated pilots. We also noticed that GSS was employing non type rated pilots ahead of us.

We suspected that as Virgin had realised that in the end that no 744 pilots would be made redundant, there was a 'no poaching' agreement between the chief pilots of the companys - as there often is in these events. It could be that the agreement (if there was one) is still in place.

scroggs

Thanks, Dan, that may make a bit of sense...

scroggs

Chaps - an amendment to the e-mail addy I gave for Janine. To avoid blocking up her regular company mailbox (she does have duties other than recruiting!), please use [email protected]

Thanks

scameron77

Apologies for resurfacing this thread after almost a year but I am but a stain on the y-fronts that is this business holding a puny FAA CPL/IR on 250 hours.

This post combined with one written by Pilot Pete and another by Localiser has convinced me I made the right decision back in January.

Its for that reason I now ask (please be aware of me viginity here) but can I assume the the relief/cruise/2 stripe pilots on the virgin fleet can expect to have the same minimum number of hours to be accepted?

Mister Geezer

The Virgin website states that 1000 hours jet experience required on BAe 146 or heavier.

The days of cruise pilots are gone and you have to join as a F/O.

scroggs

You will not get a job at Virgin without at least 4000 hours, mostly on commercial jets (or military equivalent). We do not employ second officers or cruise pilots, nor do we run a cadet system.

You also need a JAA/CAA ATPL (not frozen).

scameron77

So in essence you have to have accumulated quite a few hours with another airline, getting a few years of seniority under your belt and then there is a chance you move to Virgin and then start as being the two-tab 3rd pilot on a 747, only logging a fraction of the hours? Granted on a 747 and nice stay overs as Virgin only tend to go to the nice places in the world.

I'm beginning to see the value in a very good marketing/brading strategy by the Vir Atlantic execs

Don't get me wrong, currentlty I think if I was at that stage I'd be all over it if I had 4,000+, time will tell however.

Also would anyone currently working with Virgin please share with us who they use for type ratings? Just on the off chance I win the lottery

scroggs

What is a 'two tab third pilot'? We employ first officers, not skivvies. When you go on line in this company, you are fully qualified on your aircraft type, and will operate on two-man, three-man, or four-man crews as required by your roster. You will operate as P1u/s (PF) from day one - when it's your turn. I repeat: we do not employ second officers or cruise pilots.

What do you mean by 'who they use for type ratings'? We do our own training in-house.

I think your sojurn in the USA has given you a US-centric idea of how airlines work. The UK is quite different from the USA in many ways.

Danny

Two tab maybe. F/O's are fully p1u/s from day one. We only use third pilot on the B744 fleet for West coast USA and Havana. Airbus use three or four depending on route. Does the number of tabs on your shoulder give you a complex? Here, after two years you get a third tab. No difference in the amount of flying you do though.

You seem to assume that F/O's are not allowed to touch the controls or something. Rubbish. We get to operate most flights just two crew and do PF and PNF alternately. On three crew, decide between ourselves who does relief on one sector while other does either PF or PNF.

Type rating is done in house so you might as well save your money as Virgin don't sell type ratings. Different sims are used but mostly Braincrank. From next year we will have our own.

As for hours, we do 750 a year and that's contracted. Very nice thank you. I'm now off to meet the rest of the crew for a night out in SFO.

Edited to add the Dummies Guide to Rank ID:
1 Tab - Second Officer (None in VS)
2 Tabs - First Officer
3 Tabs - Senior First Officer
4 Tabs - Captain
5 Tabs - Senior Captain

But you knew all that already didn't you?

coded_messages

Scameron - What you refer too is the 'Second Officer' and it's already been pointed out that Virgin no longer have SO's However with an SO yes your right. Yes they do have a limited rating called a P2X where they can only occupy a window seat for the cruise and yes they can only log a fraction of the time spent at the controls and most to my knowledge have 1 bar. From what I know CX, SQ and QF are the main carriers that have Second Officers, that being said they differ insofar that QF allow the SO's to actually fly the aircraft above a certain height.

I am in the hold pool with Virgin and I can assure you (not that one has too) that when I went along to the interview along with the other 5 pilots we were all there to be interviewed as First Officers, nothing less!

With regards to Virgins marketing? Are you suggesting they are being underhand? I disagree totally with you as this is actually costing not saving them money. Second Officers obviously are on a lower salary so when you do on the odd occassion act as relief Virgin are having to pay a fully qualified FO.

So as you can see only on the odd occassion when there is 3 of you will one have to be relief, I mean is there any other way it can be? Is it at all possible for all 3 to sit on 2 seats for take off? You are not Relief all the time but just occassionaly and anyway is being relief such a big deal? I do it as a Senior FO 90% of the time for another airline at present so cant wait to get some MORE flying in at VS

Hope this helps

scameron77

Jeesie Chressie, I never thought I would have got all this from what I thought was a relatively simple question, can I remind everyone of what I wrote:

QUOTE]I am but a stain on the y-fronts that is this business holding a puny FAA CPL/IR on 250 hours.[/QUOTE]

My reasoning behind the post is this, During my last trip from the UK to LAX I noticed there was a relatively young female pilot wearing 2 tabs, on getting back and discussing it with people here THEY referred to her role as a 'cruise or relief' pilot. Possibly the thinking behind this was a former instructor based where we are on 1,500 hours got accepted by Air Philippines as a cruise pilot on a 747 three months previously.

I wondered if this 2 tab pilot would be accepted on less hours because of (what I perceived as) less responsibility and time logged in the cockpit. I stand corrected. If I have upset anyone because of this I apologise, I can only blame my expose to the aviation industry so far as being the inside of a Seneca II, a C172SP, Archers and Warriors.

I don't think where I do my training makes any difference to what I understand of airline operations. Its not part of the CPL/IR syllabus no matter where you study.

But isn't this what PPRuNe is all about, the ignorant are informed by the knowledgeable? Would you tell off a 4 year old for suggesting 'one plus five is fifteen?' In aviation terms I am that 4 year old when compared to a lot of you.

I don't apologise for not knowing what 'P1u/s' is what is defined by a 'sector' or the two letter identifiers for airlines etc. at my current level of education. However I am more than happy and welcome the opportunity to learn.

As for Virgin's marketing, no need to read too much between the lines, there is nothing to find. My opinion on Virgin is that its portrayed as being a 'fun' cutting edge employer, people aspire and warm to it, hence the amount of people who want to work there. That combind with their list of destinations, pretty cool places for the most part.

What they convey is that Virgin is the cheeky upstart, fighting the monstrous BA, funky, entertainment orientated, young, fun and vibrant - Isn't that what they try to put across to the general public? In the same way my friends in London who work in telly aspire to work for MTV, Architects want to work for Norman Foster and travel writers want to work for the Lonely Planet guides.

I also thought Virgin may have contracted out their TR's to another company as I was unaware if they had their own simulator or capability.

scroggs

Sorry, you do seemed to have reaped the whirlwind!

When Virgin pilots refer to a 'relief pilot', we're talking about the First Officer (or sometimes a Captain) who is operating as third pilot on a sector (single flight) that requires three pilots due to flight duty time limitations. On these sectors, one pilot will operate as Pilot Flying (PF), one as Pilot Non-Flying (PNF) and one as relief. PF and PNF operate together for take-off and landing. The relief pilot will occupy one of the seats for the middle two thirds of the flight, while either PF or PNF is getting their head down. There will always be two pilots on duty.

I am operating as relief pilot on the Los Angeles flight I'm currently on. As this is a training flight for a captain who has been reassigned from the B747-200, I get the dubious pleasure of operating relief both ways. Normally, I would get relief one way and PF or PNF the other.

P1u/s is a CAA logbook designation for a First Officer operating as PF. It stands for First Pilot Under Supervision.

As for being a 'cheeky upstart', Virgin celebrated 21 years in business this year. I think we've moved on from that image now, though we still try to be fun and entertainment-focussed. Well, on the Airbus at least.

Virgin has always operated its own training system. Initially (21 years ago), Vigin used recently-retired ex-BA TRI/TRE pilots to start the training system. Currently, the training department includes something like 100 pilots. Ground training is carried out at Virgin's 'The Base' in Crawley. We don't have our own simulators at the moment; we use BA's for the B744, and GECAT and Lufthansa for the A340-300 and -600 respectively (though the training staff are always Virgin). From next year, we will have our own simulator complex at Burgess Hill, with both A340-600 and B747-400 simulators.

Hope this clears things up.

Scroggs