European Aviation Problems (Merged)
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You have got to admire their cheek.
Got the e-mail making me redundant on Wedensday night, got a call from crewin ( first one this year!) on Thursday asking me to take XJ to Manston on Friday. I thought one of my mates was winding me up, but it really was crewin.I politely declined the trip.
Just like to say a fond farewell to you all. I had a great time and have lots of happy memories. Gona miss ya all
All the best everyone
Got the e-mail making me redundant on Wedensday night, got a call from crewin ( first one this year!) on Thursday asking me to take XJ to Manston on Friday. I thought one of my mates was winding me up, but it really was crewin.I politely declined the trip.
Just like to say a fond farewell to you all. I had a great time and have lots of happy memories. Gona miss ya all
All the best everyone
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A Few Facts
Hi Everybody
As Badger Badger Badger pointed out a posting WAS deleted I saw it disappear. It was posted officially by EAAC with the intention of answering questions posted by concerned individuals.
Just to put the record straight Paul Stoddart signed a legal contract in December 2002 relinquishing the control of the company to Steven Woodland.Paul has been fighting for the last four months to re-gain control to try and avoid exactly what has happened. Unfortunately nobody would listen.
I have flown Paul on the odd occasion and know that he this decision would have been a very hard one to make but it unfortunately had to be done.
I read a reference on a previous posting stating that “EAAC has made redundancies in the past” this is correct. But I would like to add that most of the Staff including myself were re-employed as soon as it was financially viable.
I would like to wish the remaining 100 or so Staff running European all the best and hope they succeed to ensure a Stronger British Airline Industry.
As Badger Badger Badger pointed out a posting WAS deleted I saw it disappear. It was posted officially by EAAC with the intention of answering questions posted by concerned individuals.
Just to put the record straight Paul Stoddart signed a legal contract in December 2002 relinquishing the control of the company to Steven Woodland.Paul has been fighting for the last four months to re-gain control to try and avoid exactly what has happened. Unfortunately nobody would listen.
I have flown Paul on the odd occasion and know that he this decision would have been a very hard one to make but it unfortunately had to be done.
I read a reference on a previous posting stating that “EAAC has made redundancies in the past” this is correct. But I would like to add that most of the Staff including myself were re-employed as soon as it was financially viable.
I would like to wish the remaining 100 or so Staff running European all the best and hope they succeed to ensure a Stronger British Airline Industry.
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makes an interesting read
hey all
this is an interesting thread to have a gander at:
oz-jet fails to secure take-off clearance. - sorry not sure which actual forum it is in but put in a search.
this is an interesting thread to have a gander at:
oz-jet fails to secure take-off clearance. - sorry not sure which actual forum it is in but put in a search.
The OzJet topic is on the Dunnunda & Godzone forum :
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=123413
DJ737
The Roo Rooter
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=123413
DJ737
The Roo Rooter
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Crewing gimp - some very valid points raised.
However crews will moan about ops/crewing and the other way round and both feel that they have reason to, but the fact is that an airline can only survive with team work.
From a flt crew point of view we saw tremendous waste of resources due to a lack of planning (the last being 3 taxis travelling between the same airports with three different crew members within 45 mins of each other). But I am convinced that it wasn’t the result of incompetence by individuals at BOH, quite the opposite, they all worked hard but the set up didn’t allow for an efficient operation. This was frustrating for everyone, flight crew and operations alike.
We where all trying to pull in the same direction however no one knew what direction that was.
I think we all knew that this was on the cards, you don't have to be an accountant to realise that having crews that only fly 250 hours (or less in some cases) a year is not going to be making too much money.
With any luck EAC MkII will learn and become stronger for it. If the correct decisions, hard but necessary they may be, are made now by the management who knows what will happen......
Best of luck everybody.
However crews will moan about ops/crewing and the other way round and both feel that they have reason to, but the fact is that an airline can only survive with team work.
From a flt crew point of view we saw tremendous waste of resources due to a lack of planning (the last being 3 taxis travelling between the same airports with three different crew members within 45 mins of each other). But I am convinced that it wasn’t the result of incompetence by individuals at BOH, quite the opposite, they all worked hard but the set up didn’t allow for an efficient operation. This was frustrating for everyone, flight crew and operations alike.
We where all trying to pull in the same direction however no one knew what direction that was.
I think we all knew that this was on the cards, you don't have to be an accountant to realise that having crews that only fly 250 hours (or less in some cases) a year is not going to be making too much money.
With any luck EAC MkII will learn and become stronger for it. If the correct decisions, hard but necessary they may be, are made now by the management who knows what will happen......
Best of luck everybody.
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I was the man on the grassy knowl
Hello again
With regards to the "No More Cream For European Fat Cat" that was nothing more than a play with words on my behalf, to try and spice up the Jaffa news article; it worked and lots of readers now know about Jaffa's health issues.
As for the posting by the Unregistered person, i agree with your words ...
It was my understanding also that PGS had legally handed control to Stephen Woodland in Dec 2002, and thats why he was installed as Chief Operating Officer. I believe it was his job to begin the expansion of the company to fit in with the wishes of the soon to be new owners of EAAC. So at that point i personally feel PGS was trying to help the company by relinquishing control to hopefully expedite our expansion (via new investment) so we might flourish in time for the 2003 summer programme.
I would like to stress at this juncture that PGS from Dec 2002 until recently was no longer involved with the day-to-day running nor the allocation of company assets/funds. Stephen Woodland was legally in control on behalf of the soon to be new owners.
What happened in 2003 remains slightly blurry. Rapid expansion suddenly occured with the new investment coming in, we saw new staff, new equipment, AIMS, and New Aircraft. New staff were recruited for the envisaged influx of work we would receive, to the point where the CC trainers were sometimes working 6 day weeks to cope with demand.
With the advent of AIMS new equipment (IT wise) was steadily spreading throughout the company, AIMS was essential to help the company to expand. As many now will undoubtedly scream, yes AIMS had problems, but it was deemed a requirement so we had to do the best we could to work with it.
New Aircraft, well as for the 737-300's that were mentioned i don't know 100% what happened there, yet. But we did see the inclusion of MA, MB and XO 747-200's i believe. MA & MB were from Virgin (ex Cathay Pacific) if memory serves and i am unsure of the origin of XO but i think it was ex BA. Personally i feel the major undoing of EAAC happened here! Surely newer 737's would of been more benefit to help strengthen our Short Haul potential ... And what was the point of securing XO (747-200) without engines, an aircraft whos engines are scarce to say the very least? Here's a glimpse of XO Mr Woodland's last investment.
So some of you might have axe's to grind with respect to PGS in the past, but i can tell you that from what i know he fought like hell to try and bring us back from the edge over the last 4 months. And he was succeeding but i fear too much damage had been done. As i have suggested before Stephen Woodland is the man you should be angry with, not the man who is still fighting to keep it going.
That is how i see things, and in no way is to be taken as offical; take it or leave it.
With regards to the "No More Cream For European Fat Cat" that was nothing more than a play with words on my behalf, to try and spice up the Jaffa news article; it worked and lots of readers now know about Jaffa's health issues.
As for the posting by the Unregistered person, i agree with your words ...
It was my understanding also that PGS had legally handed control to Stephen Woodland in Dec 2002, and thats why he was installed as Chief Operating Officer. I believe it was his job to begin the expansion of the company to fit in with the wishes of the soon to be new owners of EAAC. So at that point i personally feel PGS was trying to help the company by relinquishing control to hopefully expedite our expansion (via new investment) so we might flourish in time for the 2003 summer programme.
I would like to stress at this juncture that PGS from Dec 2002 until recently was no longer involved with the day-to-day running nor the allocation of company assets/funds. Stephen Woodland was legally in control on behalf of the soon to be new owners.
What happened in 2003 remains slightly blurry. Rapid expansion suddenly occured with the new investment coming in, we saw new staff, new equipment, AIMS, and New Aircraft. New staff were recruited for the envisaged influx of work we would receive, to the point where the CC trainers were sometimes working 6 day weeks to cope with demand.
With the advent of AIMS new equipment (IT wise) was steadily spreading throughout the company, AIMS was essential to help the company to expand. As many now will undoubtedly scream, yes AIMS had problems, but it was deemed a requirement so we had to do the best we could to work with it.
New Aircraft, well as for the 737-300's that were mentioned i don't know 100% what happened there, yet. But we did see the inclusion of MA, MB and XO 747-200's i believe. MA & MB were from Virgin (ex Cathay Pacific) if memory serves and i am unsure of the origin of XO but i think it was ex BA. Personally i feel the major undoing of EAAC happened here! Surely newer 737's would of been more benefit to help strengthen our Short Haul potential ... And what was the point of securing XO (747-200) without engines, an aircraft whos engines are scarce to say the very least? Here's a glimpse of XO Mr Woodland's last investment.
So some of you might have axe's to grind with respect to PGS in the past, but i can tell you that from what i know he fought like hell to try and bring us back from the edge over the last 4 months. And he was succeeding but i fear too much damage had been done. As i have suggested before Stephen Woodland is the man you should be angry with, not the man who is still fighting to keep it going.
That is how i see things, and in no way is to be taken as offical; take it or leave it.
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Apologies if this has been covered already. Being ex AFX, and now ex EAAC, I obtained a pamplet from the Insolvency Service, PO Box 203, 21 Bloomsbury St, London WC1B 3QW tel:0121 698 4241. This might make interesting reading, and if I surmise correctly, staff are higher up the food chain than you might have thought when companies get into trouble.
As EAAC are continuing to trade, albeit in a restructured format, I guess this might be a little premature, but forewarned is forearmed.
I find my redundancy letter rather misleading in that the DOE and National Insurance won't be involved until EAAC is either insolvent or in administration and protected from its creditors (us).
Comments please.
Yotter
As EAAC are continuing to trade, albeit in a restructured format, I guess this might be a little premature, but forewarned is forearmed.
I find my redundancy letter rather misleading in that the DOE and National Insurance won't be involved until EAAC is either insolvent or in administration and protected from its creditors (us).
Comments please.
Yotter
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hmmm??!
Well in response to the previous post, i feel that EAAC are going to look at all these claim forms to see how much they would have to pay out and if it seems like too much of a headache then they will just become insolvent!! 
What do you recon?? I find it very strange that we are returning forms to EAAC and as we have all been told, they are not even insolvent.
As someone who had to fill in this form 2 yrs ago i never sent it back to the company that had gone 'pop' it went to the administrators.
I think we ae all in for a bumpy ride with this one!
EAAC
SW TCD
What do you recon?? I find it very strange that we are returning forms to EAAC and as we have all been told, they are not even insolvent.
As someone who had to fill in this form 2 yrs ago i never sent it back to the company that had gone 'pop'
it went to the administrators.I think we ae all in for a bumpy ride with this one!
EAAC
SW TCD
Last edited by Brandy; 20th Mar 2004 at 12:30.
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Stinky!!!
Too right it stinks!!!!!!!! Must be the SH*t they are throwing on those mushrooms again!!!I was last in and expect to be first out!! And what are they doing re-training crew to a different A/C type????
I suppose they are using the wages we are owed to finance it!!
If the company continues to trade then they have to honour the payments. Plus it is possible that they haven't followed the law of the land in the manner of the redundancies so have to be very, very, careful.
If they don't honour their legal commitments then I think it is likely that the following legal action by ex employees will jeopardise any recovery
If they don't honour their legal commitments then I think it is likely that the following legal action by ex employees will jeopardise any recovery
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I thin that's going to be their biggest issue. I believe they cannot operate from Gatwick or Stansted because of money owed to the BAA and various handling agents. So that will restrict their operations somewhat. I suppose Bournmouth will be OK for a while. The real concern will be confidence with tour operators. They'll need to demonstrate that they are able to pay their bills before any tour operator would pay a deposit for flying for this summer.
We've ( Channex) have been asked to cover some ex EAL flying out of Stansted this summer. I presume others are being asked similar questions.
We've ( Channex) have been asked to cover some ex EAL flying out of Stansted this summer. I presume others are being asked similar questions.
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Yes 'offmytrolly' very p****d off wth the 747 to 737 training situation on the day of our redundancy!!!. . and a very painful insult to type trained crew who did not meet the required selection criteria to remain on the 'list'
I wish all my fellow goblins and FD gremlins all the best.. it was fun while it lasted, might still bump into some of you ..who knows.
Don't know about the mushrooms but the toadstools are very comfy and no need to be strapped in!. . now i must buy a nice pair of pointy shoes.. hmmm have to wait for my redundancy money. . oh well, I guess they'll do for another year or two. .
I wish all my fellow goblins and FD gremlins all the best.. it was fun while it lasted, might still bump into some of you ..who knows.
Don't know about the mushrooms but the toadstools are very comfy and no need to be strapped in!. . now i must buy a nice pair of pointy shoes.. hmmm have to wait for my redundancy money. . oh well, I guess they'll do for another year or two. .
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Don't be surprised that some later entrants skipped over people that were there from the beginning. That is exactly how they "promoted" people when I briefly worked for them. Experience counted for nothing, what counted was how much you "brown nosed" the people in charge of promotions.
I say to all who have lost their jobs, do like I did, let it go, shrugg it off, put it down to a nightmare company to work for and search "proper" airlines for a new job and new direction. EAL rest in peace and let it be a model to other new start airlines of how not to run an airline.
I say to all who have lost their jobs, do like I did, let it go, shrugg it off, put it down to a nightmare company to work for and search "proper" airlines for a new job and new direction. EAL rest in peace and let it be a model to other new start airlines of how not to run an airline.
. . I say Faulty my ears might be a bit pointy but some people find me attractive. .
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I suppose a rebrand as "Minardi Air" would be a total give away!
Been on the who gets retained bit before. With one of my old employers, anyone who wasn't Irish or second generation Irish got shafted. Seniority or experience didn't matter one bit.
Been on the who gets retained bit before. With one of my old employers, anyone who wasn't Irish or second generation Irish got shafted. Seniority or experience didn't matter one bit.
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Havana,
It's people like you that make me sick.
Maybe it's time you should get a grasp on reality. You complain when you are working and complain when you're not. Now you're out of a job, I'm sure a phone call from crewing would be welcomed with open arms.
It's typical, this industry is full of whinging crew like yourself but there's hundrends of people out there who would give their right arm to have a job.
On a lighter note, I would just like to say thankyou to all crew and staff (excluding senior management) at European. You're among the best I've ever worked with.
Good luck at J2 Dan, they're lucky to have you!
eruo boy
I don't know whether you are aware but it often costs over £10,000 to transport flight crew + IFD one-way transatlantic. That's more than some people at European earn in a year.
If people stuck to the job they were employed to do, instead of interfering with others, maybe some of the confusion and inconvenience on occasions could have been avoided.
It might be wise for people to think about this in their new jobs before refusing to operate unless the above was guaranteed. Other airlines may not be so accommodating.
Crewing gimp, I hope all is well with your new job. It appears you got out at the right time.
And to all cat lovers out there, don't worry, I have it on good authority that Jaffa has been adopted and will be well looked after by his new owner.
It's people like you that make me sick.
Maybe it's time you should get a grasp on reality. You complain when you are working and complain when you're not. Now you're out of a job, I'm sure a phone call from crewing would be welcomed with open arms.
It's typical, this industry is full of whinging crew like yourself but there's hundrends of people out there who would give their right arm to have a job.
On a lighter note, I would just like to say thankyou to all crew and staff (excluding senior management) at European. You're among the best I've ever worked with.
Good luck at J2 Dan, they're lucky to have you!
eruo boy
I don't know whether you are aware but it often costs over £10,000 to transport flight crew + IFD one-way transatlantic. That's more than some people at European earn in a year.
If people stuck to the job they were employed to do, instead of interfering with others, maybe some of the confusion and inconvenience on occasions could have been avoided.
It might be wise for people to think about this in their new jobs before refusing to operate unless the above was guaranteed. Other airlines may not be so accommodating.
Crewing gimp, I hope all is well with your new job. It appears you got out at the right time.
And to all cat lovers out there, don't worry, I have it on good authority that Jaffa has been adopted and will be well looked after by his new owner.