People Leaving Ezy For Greener Pastures.
Aha, one lives and learns.
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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Easyjet has not always been 6 and 3.But it has always been CAP 371 and still is.How can a day off start at 0400 and how can your first day on be at 0500, well by calling a rest day a day off.Easyjet are streching CAP 371 too far in every direction..quote CAA. How do you negotiate with liars..no night flying..industry leading salary to name just 2 of their previous and then abandoned statements.Will anyone defend last years BALPA negotiated deal where the CC leader negotiated full pay for over 60s pilots(he being liverpool based and can only fly BFS and AMS of the 10 or so destinations) Whereas a new Captain gets 90 % salary for the first 6 months.That ,in my and many other peoples opinions was a disgrace and more than 50 people resigned from BALPA very shortly after that.So whats new this year?
Join Date: Jun 2001
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I don't really see what all of the fuss is about over the 90% for new Captains?
If they'd made it incremental pay scales instead such as £58k for 6 months, £64k year 1 , £67k years 2-5, £70k years 5-10 would you still fuss? (Which they have done in effect with the Bonus payment.)
Have you stood for the CC? If not keep your trap shut because I challenge you to do better! It's very easy to whinge and moan but it's not so easy to stand up and say, yep I'll fight for a better deal.
If they'd made it incremental pay scales instead such as £58k for 6 months, £64k year 1 , £67k years 2-5, £70k years 5-10 would you still fuss? (Which they have done in effect with the Bonus payment.)
Have you stood for the CC? If not keep your trap shut because I challenge you to do better! It's very easy to whinge and moan but it's not so easy to stand up and say, yep I'll fight for a better deal.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Easyjet are streching CAP 371 too far in every direction..quote CAA
2. What do he / she or the CAA propose to do about the problem?
3. Why do the CAA allow rostering problems to get out of hand in the first place?
In my view, the route cause of these types of rostering problems lies within the CAA. We would all benefit from more prescriptive and less consensual safety regulation.
Last edited by Caractacus; 12th Apr 2004 at 09:07.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Not ORANGE
You throw around phrases like "8% pay cut" and "EZ CC only look after themselves" without any justification.
Although I personally don't agree with the 90% pay thing, the reality is that a newly promoted FO gets a pay rise - not cut - to a level 90% of a full Captain's pay, for a period of 6 months. So, don't mis-represent the issue, it's a pay rise, not cut, for a limited period.
Interestingly, the accusation about the CC only looking after themselves was made before when a completely different team was in place. This is just a pointless phrase bandied round whenever a reasoned argument cannot be made.
The CC has representatives from FOs, Captains and Training Captains - by theoretically looking after themselves, as you put it, they are looking after every pilot in the company - just what they were elected to do!
You throw around phrases like "8% pay cut" and "EZ CC only look after themselves" without any justification.
Although I personally don't agree with the 90% pay thing, the reality is that a newly promoted FO gets a pay rise - not cut - to a level 90% of a full Captain's pay, for a period of 6 months. So, don't mis-represent the issue, it's a pay rise, not cut, for a limited period.
Interestingly, the accusation about the CC only looking after themselves was made before when a completely different team was in place. This is just a pointless phrase bandied round whenever a reasoned argument cannot be made.
The CC has representatives from FOs, Captains and Training Captains - by theoretically looking after themselves, as you put it, they are looking after every pilot in the company - just what they were elected to do!
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Flaps,
Promotion from F/O to Captain does not equal a payrise - yes you will be earning more money but it is NOT a rise. A rise is what you have just negotiated i.e. an increase to your basic salary in your present position.
I defy anyone on the council to give me a good reason why I got paid 90% of a Captain's salary during my first six months in command. All line captains do the same job and should get the same pay. Before you ask no I'm not in BALPA - I resigned over this very issue last year - I'd love to rejoin but last year's deal still sticks in my throat. The last thing you need when you are having to transfer to a new base to get your command (i.e pay rent and a mortgage!) is to be told you are getting 10% less than the guy parked at the gate next door - it's an insult and you let them get away with it last year.
Unions are about uniting people to fight for common goals and you split the ranks badly last year with this issue - is it any wonder membership isn't where it should be?
Promotion from F/O to Captain does not equal a payrise - yes you will be earning more money but it is NOT a rise. A rise is what you have just negotiated i.e. an increase to your basic salary in your present position.
I defy anyone on the council to give me a good reason why I got paid 90% of a Captain's salary during my first six months in command. All line captains do the same job and should get the same pay. Before you ask no I'm not in BALPA - I resigned over this very issue last year - I'd love to rejoin but last year's deal still sticks in my throat. The last thing you need when you are having to transfer to a new base to get your command (i.e pay rent and a mortgage!) is to be told you are getting 10% less than the guy parked at the gate next door - it's an insult and you let them get away with it last year.
Unions are about uniting people to fight for common goals and you split the ranks badly last year with this issue - is it any wonder membership isn't where it should be?
Join Date: Jun 2001
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.........and it's because people didn't have the balls to join (and stay joined) last year that such things happened without the required opposition for God's sake!
No-one on the Council can justify it. No-one has tried to. Last year we couldn't stop it. Without Balpa representation last year, it would have happened anyway. Why was it then Balpa's fault?
I said I didn't agree with it, I didn't try to justify it, just tried to say what it is!
Did you think perhaps leaving Balpa was a cunning way to get it changed back? - That didn't work.
Did you perhaps think that it was because of Balpa that it happened in the first place?.........er No
Or could it be perhaps that the company was going to do it anyway and the low membership numbers of last year meant that it could not be stopped?.....This looks promising!
Now, think which of the above is most likely, then think what you did in protest, and try and work out if it was really the right thing to do.
Last year, by leaving Balpa and weakening their position, did you give the company more or less opportunity to do such things with impunity?
If, as a result of the cynical 90% last year, 300 more pilots had suddenly joined Balpa and said 'fight this thing' - the story might have had a different ending!!!!
No-one on the Council can justify it. No-one has tried to. Last year we couldn't stop it. Without Balpa representation last year, it would have happened anyway. Why was it then Balpa's fault?
I said I didn't agree with it, I didn't try to justify it, just tried to say what it is!
Did you think perhaps leaving Balpa was a cunning way to get it changed back? - That didn't work.
Did you perhaps think that it was because of Balpa that it happened in the first place?.........er No
Or could it be perhaps that the company was going to do it anyway and the low membership numbers of last year meant that it could not be stopped?.....This looks promising!
Now, think which of the above is most likely, then think what you did in protest, and try and work out if it was really the right thing to do.
Last year, by leaving Balpa and weakening their position, did you give the company more or less opportunity to do such things with impunity?
If, as a result of the cynical 90% last year, 300 more pilots had suddenly joined Balpa and said 'fight this thing' - the story might have had a different ending!!!!
Join Date: Jun 2000
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How can it be legal, under EU law, to employ two equally qualified people, who are salaried fulltime employees doing the same job, but pay them different amounts?
Surely this is case for a "less favourable treatment" claim. If anyone effected is a member of BALPA, then why not use their legal offices to pursue such a claim and at least get something for your membership subs.
Surely this is case for a "less favourable treatment" claim. If anyone effected is a member of BALPA, then why not use their legal offices to pursue such a claim and at least get something for your membership subs.
Join Date: Jun 2000
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MF 32.5
Not apples and apples. Seniority implies having been there longer. Every year earns a little extra. That is not the case here. It is a change of employment conditions from the case a few years ago, i.e. when new command did not attract a penalty. If it is considered probation, then when the period has successfully been completed the very least is that the with-held pay is refunded. But again, seek legal advice from your 1%. DO NOT assume!
It isn't the first time conditions have changed, either. In 1997 there was no bond for the type rating. In spring 1998 it was 7000, then in summer it was more and by autumn 1998 it was 17000. All for exactly the same thing. Luckily, or perhaps not, this arbitrarely introduced disparity had never to be tested.
Not apples and apples. Seniority implies having been there longer. Every year earns a little extra. That is not the case here. It is a change of employment conditions from the case a few years ago, i.e. when new command did not attract a penalty. If it is considered probation, then when the period has successfully been completed the very least is that the with-held pay is refunded. But again, seek legal advice from your 1%. DO NOT assume!
It isn't the first time conditions have changed, either. In 1997 there was no bond for the type rating. In spring 1998 it was 7000, then in summer it was more and by autumn 1998 it was 17000. All for exactly the same thing. Luckily, or perhaps not, this arbitrarely introduced disparity had never to be tested.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Oh yee, Ohh yee Easy pilots!!
Take a look at this. This could be what you fatigued chaps and chapess' have been waiting for!!
Looks like uncle Rod is opening his flood gates!
BA to start recruiting DEP pilots??
Take a look at this. This could be what you fatigued chaps and chapess' have been waiting for!!
Looks like uncle Rod is opening his flood gates!
BA to start recruiting DEP pilots??
Join Date: Feb 2000
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Sorry Rowley,
Good mate of mine is a skipper at EOG and he's more knackered than I am. Also he only finds out his days off on a monthly basis and has his rostering done by Carnage (aka Carmen). Think I'll stay with the festering orange
Good mate of mine is a skipper at EOG and he's more knackered than I am. Also he only finds out his days off on a monthly basis and has his rostering done by Carnage (aka Carmen). Think I'll stay with the festering orange
Join Date: May 2003
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CAP 54
He's more knackered than you because they're short of pilots too. And that will change when they recruit people to fill the gaps!
In the long term BA will allways win over all the other airlines in the UK. The good charter airlines have been around for 20+ years and BA has always had better terms and conditions over them in the long term. There have been peaks and troughs in BA's conditions, but as an average they're always better.
If you're young, you won't regret joining BA. But you will regret getting a command quickly and doing the same thing for the next 30+ years.
He's more knackered than you because they're short of pilots too. And that will change when they recruit people to fill the gaps!
In the long term BA will allways win over all the other airlines in the UK. The good charter airlines have been around for 20+ years and BA has always had better terms and conditions over them in the long term. There have been peaks and troughs in BA's conditions, but as an average they're always better.
If you're young, you won't regret joining BA. But you will regret getting a command quickly and doing the same thing for the next 30+ years.
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Or you could spend the next 30 years commuting from your regional home to LHR to stay in a hotel with the Delsey Diners on the long haul fleet or do the same as the Orange mob on the shorthaul fleet but instead of being at home everynight with your toys end up with the Delsey Diners on the shorthaul fleet!
Nah you can shove BA, I'll stick with eJ
Since there's no final salary pension anymore and my mates at EOG and LHR are knackered I don't see any advantage in joining BA.
Someone in my old airline worked out you had to leave them by 31 or you'd never make up the salary differential. That was when commands were within a few years (just as in ezy) but BA had a FS pension scheme.
Nah you can shove BA, I'll stick with eJ
Since there's no final salary pension anymore and my mates at EOG and LHR are knackered I don't see any advantage in joining BA.
Someone in my old airline worked out you had to leave them by 31 or you'd never make up the salary differential. That was when commands were within a few years (just as in ezy) but BA had a FS pension scheme.
Join Date: Oct 1998
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At a guess, if BA pilots are "feeling knackered" it is because they are working somewhat harder than they used to, rather than being in the same boat as the LowCost workers.
The last time I looked, BA had a rostering agreement well within the limits imposed by CAP 371. If this has changed, I apologise.
The last time I looked, BA had a rostering agreement well within the limits imposed by CAP 371. If this has changed, I apologise.
Join Date: May 2003
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Don't forget people, that the present 12-14 year wait for a command is based on TODAY. In the future it could well reduce alot. Remember the days when people were waiting 20 years for a command at BA? Well, I do and although it was unfortunate for some, with in a few years the time to command had tumbled to about 7 years. Five years ago they were even offering direct entry commands at Gatwick.....Bet nobody predicted that during the dark days when the snap shot was 20 years for the LHS.
See the big picture! Easy is nothing compared to the oportunities at BA. And belive me I have no axe to grind.
See the big picture! Easy is nothing compared to the oportunities at BA. And belive me I have no axe to grind.
Join Date: Nov 2002
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Boeing 7E7,
It is more likely to increase. At present the BA retirement age is 55. It is likely that a legal challenge will change it to 60 in the near future. That will add 5 years to time-to-command (assuming that all those approaching 55 choose to stay on until 60)..
Don't forget people, that the present 12-14 year wait for a command is based on TODAY. In the future it could well reduce alot.
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Ya, it could do. It may not. BA is at it smallest for years so any expansion will help. There are so many things that could happen for or against. Who can tell?
But the reason people join BA is not and never has been for a quick command. Airlines like Easy and all the rest have very little else to offer their pilots in the way of career progression and oportuninties. So all easyJet has to offer is a basic salary of £65k with a quick command. Which is great! But that will wear off like that feeling we all first had when we got our first job.
But hey, this thread is about how bad easyJet is and how people want to get out! We all make our own minds up; all I say is don't be hoodwinked into thinking a command is everything.
But the reason people join BA is not and never has been for a quick command. Airlines like Easy and all the rest have very little else to offer their pilots in the way of career progression and oportuninties. So all easyJet has to offer is a basic salary of £65k with a quick command. Which is great! But that will wear off like that feeling we all first had when we got our first job.
But hey, this thread is about how bad easyJet is and how people want to get out! We all make our own minds up; all I say is don't be hoodwinked into thinking a command is everything.