A320 Manual Landing Technique
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Yes, I agree that 30' is a bit early to decrab, and after 20' or latter is maybe better, however it is interesting to note that in the FCOM, under autoland, FCOM DSC-22_30-80-30-10 it says:
I always thought if this is how the automation does it, then maybe I should also fly it the same way.
BTW, the Airbus I fly only have rad alt calls at 50, 40, 30 and 20, We don't get 10 or 5.
I always thought if this is how the automation does it, then maybe I should also fly it the same way.
BTW, the Airbus I fly only have rad alt calls at 50, 40, 30 and 20, We don't get 10 or 5.
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From memory, The 10 and 5 RA call out will come when there is no significant change of altitude for few seconds. Basically when you float. I even heard the « 5 » twice in a row during a very long flare xD.
Check Your MSN(s) FCOM chapter 31 to see which calls are installed.
Most likely You do have 10 and 5 but in manual landing the “RETARD” call will have priority and by the time it stops You will be on the ground
Only half a speed-brake
It is a pin-programmed option, no sweat.
Speaking of a manual landing technique again: One which has RETARD overlap the "5" RA on a regular basis is not a good example to follow.
BTW I was wondering the other day, why would not the RETARD shut up. Is it tied to N1 instead of TL or what?
Speaking of a manual landing technique again: One which has RETARD overlap the "5" RA on a regular basis is not a good example to follow.
BTW I was wondering the other day, why would not the RETARD shut up. Is it tied to N1 instead of TL or what?
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Flare and Landing is the only seat of the pant skill left. 30ft and 20ft call in the beginning is a good help to initiate flare but after that one has to land by visual judgment. Yo can't be landing by 10ft and 5ft calls. Initial flare should reduce the rate of descent sufficiently to get out of hard landing and bring thrust to idle but continue to the touch down point and slightly before touchdown a little more reduction is all that is required. Between 30 and 20 feet a/c should be decrabbed.
Last edited by vilas; 18th Sep 2019 at 12:01.
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From FCTM :
At 20 ft, the "RETARD" auto call-out reminds the pilot to retard thrust levers. It is a reminder rather
than an order. When best adapted, the pilot will rapidly retard all thrust levers: depending on the
conditions, the pilot will retard earlier or later.
However, the pilot must ensure that all thrust levers
are at IDLE detent at the latest at touchdown, to ensure ground spoilers extension at touchdown.
This has always worked well for me, which is what I was taught on day 1:
Be stabilised flying towards the aim point/following the GP
100' - look far ahead at the very far end of the runway (most important, to be able to judge the sink rate during the flare)
(if I make a bad landing, it's often because I don't do this and so I often have to remind myself to do this)
Maintain attitude.
After the 30' call - thrust levers idle (also rudder now if crosswind).
After the 20' call - flare
(very important - don't flare too early. Not until after the 20' call otherwise you will land long or firm)
Flare - just a small back pressure input to raise the noise maybe 2 degrees.
Flare by looking at the far end of the runway, and just judge your sink rate as normal (looking at changing runway perspective and the runway edge lines/runway edge lights) to minimise sink and touchdown in the zone.
I hope this helps.
Be stabilised flying towards the aim point/following the GP
100' - look far ahead at the very far end of the runway (most important, to be able to judge the sink rate during the flare)
(if I make a bad landing, it's often because I don't do this and so I often have to remind myself to do this)
Maintain attitude.
After the 30' call - thrust levers idle (also rudder now if crosswind).
After the 20' call - flare
(very important - don't flare too early. Not until after the 20' call otherwise you will land long or firm)
Flare - just a small back pressure input to raise the noise maybe 2 degrees.
Flare by looking at the far end of the runway, and just judge your sink rate as normal (looking at changing runway perspective and the runway edge lines/runway edge lights) to minimise sink and touchdown in the zone.
I hope this helps.
I do it all a little lower but that comes with practice once you have ‘got your eye in’. If you are MFF you rely on the RAD Alt a lot for judging the flare on the different sizes and weights of aircraft.hans brinker is spot on with Airbus FBW. The FCOM does show the feedback from the aircraft via accelerometers to the FBW, but it is quite subtle and not really explained.
Not many trainers seem to know how the FBW interacts with the pilot, or how to operate the side-stick; hence you get unhelpful comments such as “it’s fighting me, hold the stick only at the top, only at the bottom, don’t touch it” etc.
Hold the stick normally, like a pistol, and make sure your arm rest is fully supporting your forearm.
An Airbus in direct law is still FBW but the AP isn't on anymore. MCAS on a 737 is AP on without FBW.
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I don't mind though. The non-airbus pilots at my company are quite skeptical of the sidestick, and as most of them are senior to me, I've no intention of changing their minds.
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Over 15 years on the A320.
Magenta Speed target is not always VAPP.
You will only finesse this when you really understand what you are seeing.
A useful observation is the speed above VLS, as it gives your true energy. More than 5 knots means extra.energy. A last look at 50 feet determines two things,
1. Thrust reduction height.
2. Rate of flare.
If you are 10 knots above VAPP of say 135 knots you are adding about 15% V squared energy. (145 x 145)/(135 x 135) You are flaring in AOA demand law. (Not load factor demand)
The time you have this occurring is when the Wind entry on VAPP page has a low headwind, and the actual headwind is significantly high. (Drives up Ground speed mini and speed target)
This detail is somewhat missing in FCTM.
I call it the 5 foot float, and its a predictable event. If you do a normal 'muscle memory' technique flare with the extra speed (whilst bang on Magenta Speed Target) the float is assured. (Leads into the tail strike).
If you are landing on a short runway, This extra speed can lead to problems with inexperience if you have these conditions, and having a higher FMGC headwind entry can bring down the Magenta speed target.
Maybe I fly into some airports where this happens a lot in summer, but its useful to understand.
The FCOM states 'Insert the Average wind given by ATC on ATIS'
If the Wind is 150/10-20 knots, the average is 15.
(Some read this as Gusting 20 and only put in 10.)
The second example in the FCOM is 150/20G30 (Insert 150/20)
I almost always find there is a gap between thrust reduction and initiation of the flare.
Happy Landings.
Magenta Speed target is not always VAPP.
You will only finesse this when you really understand what you are seeing.
A useful observation is the speed above VLS, as it gives your true energy. More than 5 knots means extra.energy. A last look at 50 feet determines two things,
1. Thrust reduction height.
2. Rate of flare.
If you are 10 knots above VAPP of say 135 knots you are adding about 15% V squared energy. (145 x 145)/(135 x 135) You are flaring in AOA demand law. (Not load factor demand)
The time you have this occurring is when the Wind entry on VAPP page has a low headwind, and the actual headwind is significantly high. (Drives up Ground speed mini and speed target)
This detail is somewhat missing in FCTM.
I call it the 5 foot float, and its a predictable event. If you do a normal 'muscle memory' technique flare with the extra speed (whilst bang on Magenta Speed Target) the float is assured. (Leads into the tail strike).
If you are landing on a short runway, This extra speed can lead to problems with inexperience if you have these conditions, and having a higher FMGC headwind entry can bring down the Magenta speed target.
Maybe I fly into some airports where this happens a lot in summer, but its useful to understand.
The FCOM states 'Insert the Average wind given by ATC on ATIS'
If the Wind is 150/10-20 knots, the average is 15.
(Some read this as Gusting 20 and only put in 10.)
The second example in the FCOM is 150/20G30 (Insert 150/20)
I almost always find there is a gap between thrust reduction and initiation of the flare.
Happy Landings.
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If I get an increase in speed below 100', can anyone recommend what I do? When do I retard the power? What about the effect of wind and weight? Should I still wait to the 30' call, 20' call, etc, etc? When do I zero out the rudder in a crosswind? Or should I be adding rudder in a crosswind? If I'm adding rudder should I be doing anything with the wings? What about the power?
If I'm slightly high on glide slope what's the recommendation? Accept the deviation? Or adjust my pitch attitude to correct for the slight deviation? What about my power reduction now? Delay it? Do it sooner? Isn't my speed trend going to increase if I decrease my pitch slightly? Won't my sink rate increase?
Which of those variables should I focus on first? Second? Or is it some sort of dynamic event that takes training, experience, knowledge, awareness, and ability to deal with??? Does anyone know if the industry has a training program, instructors, and line training pilots to help?
If I'm slightly high on glide slope what's the recommendation? Accept the deviation? Or adjust my pitch attitude to correct for the slight deviation? What about my power reduction now? Delay it? Do it sooner? Isn't my speed trend going to increase if I decrease my pitch slightly? Won't my sink rate increase?
Which of those variables should I focus on first? Second? Or is it some sort of dynamic event that takes training, experience, knowledge, awareness, and ability to deal with??? Does anyone know if the industry has a training program, instructors, and line training pilots to help?
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Do what best suits you. Just make sure to go around if you listen the RA “five five five five”.
What John says works really good for me.
I came to the A 320 after the 76 and I had a hard time finding the height to flare.
Most important in the 76 I first flared and then reduced thrust, here I do it opposite and works good.
in the end, a smooth landing is just a very small part of the whole flight.
What John says works really good for me.
I came to the A 320 after the 76 and I had a hard time finding the height to flare.
Most important in the 76 I first flared and then reduced thrust, here I do it opposite and works good.
in the end, a smooth landing is just a very small part of the whole flight.
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You can also see how the plane auto lands, most planes do it beautifully. The A320 at 30 ‘ (autoland) will retard the thrust and at 10 ‘ will flare. It has no eyes to land visually or feel the rate of descent.
Anywho, don’t listen to me.
Anywho, don’t listen to me.
If I get an increase in speed below 100', can anyone recommend what I do? When do I retard the power? What about the effect of wind and weight? Should I still wait to the 30' call, 20' call, etc, etc? When do I zero out the rudder in a crosswind? Or should I be adding rudder in a crosswind? If I'm adding rudder should I be doing anything with the wings? What about the power?
If I'm slightly high on glide slope what's the recommendation? Accept the deviation? Or adjust my pitch attitude to correct for the slight deviation? What about my power reduction now? Delay it? Do it sooner? Isn't my speed trend going to increase if I decrease my pitch slightly? Won't my sink rate increase?
Which of those variables should I focus on first? Second? Or is it some sort of dynamic event that takes training, experience, knowledge, awareness, and ability to deal with??? Does anyone know if the industry has a training program, instructors, and line training pilots to help?
If I'm slightly high on glide slope what's the recommendation? Accept the deviation? Or adjust my pitch attitude to correct for the slight deviation? What about my power reduction now? Delay it? Do it sooner? Isn't my speed trend going to increase if I decrease my pitch slightly? Won't my sink rate increase?
Which of those variables should I focus on first? Second? Or is it some sort of dynamic event that takes training, experience, knowledge, awareness, and ability to deal with??? Does anyone know if the industry has a training program, instructors, and line training pilots to help?
These aeroplanes are reasonably easy to fly with a little experience - won’t take you more than a few months to be confident and proficient.
Generally by 100’ you should be flying a visual aimpoint - don’t get too hung up on the GS. Fly the aeroplane to your aiming point and develop an awareness of your energy state. Experience will define for you how much to adjust flare height and rate. Don’t try and grease it on - that’s not important.
Good luck and have fun.
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If you are landing on a short runway, This extra speed can lead to problems with inexperience if you have these conditions, and having a higher FMGC headwind entry can bring down the Magenta speed target.
misd-agin, I think some people have missed the sarcasm in your post.
The A320 autoland is adequate if a touch firm, I wouldn't say it does a beautiful job.
Originally Posted by virustalon
You can also see how the plane auto lands, most planes do it beautifully. The A320 at 30 ‘ (autoland) will retard the thrust and at 10 ‘ will flare. It has no eyes to land visually or feel the rate of descent.
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Aerocat - agreed. I think my professional MEL planes flown is 21, including 12 jets. I find it interesting that people come to a website to ask questions that a training department probably has experience with and you can get the 1:1 feedback to multiple questions.
As far as autolands, when people ask about the difference between Boeing and Airbus products I mention the difference in autolands - Boeing, 3 A/P's and lands cross-controlled. Airbus - 2 A/P's and lands in a crab.
As far as autolands, when people ask about the difference between Boeing and Airbus products I mention the difference in autolands - Boeing, 3 A/P's and lands cross-controlled. Airbus - 2 A/P's and lands in a crab.
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Aerocat - agreed. I think my professional MEL planes flown is 21, including 12 jets. I find it interesting that people come to a website to ask questions that a training department probably has experience with and you can get the 1:1 feedback to multiple questions.
As far as autolands, when people ask about the difference between Boeing and Airbus products I mention the difference in autolands - Boeing, 3 A/P's and lands cross-controlled. Airbus - 2 A/P's and lands in a crab.
As far as autolands, when people ask about the difference between Boeing and Airbus products I mention the difference in autolands - Boeing, 3 A/P's and lands cross-controlled. Airbus - 2 A/P's and lands in a crab.
I must admit the only time I tried an autoland on a Fail-Op 737 I was impressed as it de-crabbed and held itself nicely. A Fail Passive one just dumps it on sideways....