**warning**

[Hudson Bay]

Do not forget chaps : LIFE IS A GAME

[Kerosene Kraut]

I agree with Capt. PPRuNes points and I will agree with every rule he wants on his forum. But would we really need a different "official" approach to treat things? I mean after all it is just a rumour's network. Whoever clips info from PPRuNe is just talking about a rumour. That should provide enough protection for posters and debaters. I very much enjoy the debating side of this great forum and would hope for it to last. Why not keep it as the speakers corner of our industry? As one other poster before mentioned: It is all about many people with many professions and standpoints contributing to the same business.

[B Sousa]

WOW, thats a bunch of stuff........Maybe if I was anonymous I wouldnt show how dumb I really is.....For those of you who want to see how bad Non-Registered and Anonymous posts can go, enter the Forum at www.justhelicopters.com No control whatsoever and utter chaos when it comes to getting a good answer.
I think enough of this forum to use my own name, besides, I cant use the Anonymous name Ass**** It was given to me by my ex-wife.

[AMEX]

I agree with Thin Albert. Perhaps we could keep the Wannabe's free of charge so the usefulness of Pprune wouldn't be denied to whoever wish to enter the industry but I would also agree with a more restricted access to the other forums (fori??), where Professionals (aviation and aerospace related) could gather.
I would gladly pay my membership to make up for the potential loss of income coming from advertising. Then again if it wasn't enough, perhpaps leave Pprune the way it is, with its vast audience and let's have some sort of "Professionals" forum with restricted access.
Seems always easier than it is anyway

Have a good week end all

[Captain Stable]

And how do we ensure that only "professionals" get into the "Professionals" forum?

My personal view, which does not in any way necessarily represent the views of anyone else, alive or dead, is that PPRuNe benefits greatly from the views of all who are interested in aviation, and a very high proportion of those are not pilots, cabin crew, regular passengers, dispatchers, ATCOs, baggage handlers, journalists or even airline management.

The posters I find personally irritating come from all sectors, and they are the wind-up merchants - those who are only interested in stirring it, not in finding any enlightenment, assistance or in provoking thoughtful conversation, just in seeing how many they can annoy the hell out of.

Judging from how many hits the site gets daily, it works pretty well as it is.

[rover2701]

hey Captain Stable
Once again the great unwashed Engineers has been missed from your list of interested parties.
Why is this?
Now back to topic, How about making a small charge and also to state licence number when applying for membership of Pprune.
I am sure that would encompass most in the industry and where others are unlicenced they could be vetted on an individual basis.

[Captain Stable]

Oops - sorry Rover. No disrespect intended. As I was typing it, I was sure I had missed someone off, but in my advancing years I couldn't think who the heck it was - many apologies! Greatest respect for engineers - they've saved pilots from the worst effects of their errors on several occasions (both the airborne and the ground varieties). A tad ungrateful, therefore, to have neglected them on this occasion. They have, of course, also contributed much of great value to PPRuNe. The worth of the airborne variety continues despite all beancounters' efforts to kill them off - VC10, L1011, DC10, Concorde, B727, A300, 74C etc. etc., plus the worth of the ground-based variety will never end.

Long may they (and many others) continue to enhance the worth of PPRuNe to all!

[N380UA]

rover

Good idea only, how are the moderators gonna check all the applications from around the world? I could imagine that the FAA for example, would be reluctant to hand out such information, especially with renewed threat form terrorist cells around the world. If proof must be provided, it must be gone through the applicant in an easy, electronic fool-proof way

[AeroBoero]

N380UA;

I don't know if you know, but you CAN actually find all information from a pilot with an FAA certificate on their website. Provide me your name and I tell you where you live and what ratings you have. Also (just to mention) the Brazilian CAA (DAC) have this info online now. Only they require our license number. But don't give away the address. Only ratings.I think this will become a tendency of the CAA's around the world. Better would be that no info would be distributed at all (personal opinion), but......

As for PPRuNe; good the way it is. Is the people who tend to lose control and/or fall for the wind-up bait who go most out the line. Like life....you can't please everyone every time. Capt. (and everyone who gives time to help him) has a great task with this forum. The people here should sometimes ask if they could do such a thing. I guess what the answer would be. I know I can't or couldn't.

[OzExpat]

The concept of subscription fees, membership fees or whatever you want to call it, has been canvassed before. In fact, it was actually tried with a forum that was setup specially for it. It was a massive failure and I'm fairly sure that PPRuNe management won't be in a hurry to try the idea again anytime soon - unless their hand is forced by other events, of course.

I'm sure that the Admins will be able to tell you more about that attempt to accede to their members wishes. And, yes, the push had come from Prooners, well, some of them anyway.

As for the concept of proving our entitlement to a particular forum by, for example, quoting a licence number, WON'T ALWAYS WORK. The fact is that there are folks on here from many other, perhaps less advantaged parts of the world, where the Aviation Regulator doesn't provide any licensing information online. Yes, I'm in one of those places, but I'm far from being the only one in that situation.

Danny and Co have a very difficult time running this place and I, for one, have no problem with abiding by their rules. And, if they end up having to impose a membership fee of some sort, I will be happy to pay it.

[Romeo Delta]

Maybe a word from the "non-pro" here.

I admit it. I am walking freight. I am a non-professional (although at one time I was in training to be). However, I fly as a passenger frequently (American citizen living abroad),and thus appreciate all the information I receive on this site from "those in the know."

As you can probably tell, I don't post much. Why? Because I'm NOT a pro. Unless there is something that someone from the back seat can add, I don't need to add it.

The reason I say this is that, while there is a general sentiment that we non-pros are a menace to this forum group, there are those of us out there who just plainly enjoy reading what is said by you "real" pilots (and engineers, et al.) without being a thorn in your side.

Also, there has been a lot of talk in certain threads about how the media like to sensationalize, and if only they could see how the professionals view these incidents, the media might do a better job. Well, if you shut down the forums to all but the "pros," then you shut out those who might see how things REALLY are. Aren't there a couple journo's out there who read this forum?

Some of the ideas presented here have merit, but I would hope that you would at least let us, "we of the great unwashed masses who ride your wings," continue to read these forums. Maybe only "pros" can post, but everyone can read.

Anyway, that's my .02 Euros (adjusted for inflation)...

[basil fawlty]

I must admit that in the past I have perhaps been viewed as an "offender" on these forums. However I have merely expressed my personal opinion on the subject being debated, no more and no less, and also, I hope, provided some useful FACTS to some people via forums such as Tech Log....
I am not a "wind up" merchant, I have merely stated my views in response to others in a somewhat lucid way, but only because some posts have driven me to distraction with their pompous "I'm right and you're so wrong" attitude. For example, (and there are others, I'm just picking one for illustrative purposes!!) how come its okay for the numerous "representatives" of Big Airways to air their views/ grievances etc. in a public forum, but as soon as a different or counter view is expressed it is deemed to be insulting, defammatory (spelling??) or whatever? Smacks of hypocricy it seems to me, and yet another indication that there is definately an "establishment" in the British aviation industry which has found its way on to pprune. If such individuals did not so easily and readily take up the bait and come back with their flaming and put downs then the "wind up" brigade would not have a market for their particular fetish would they??
As I have stated in other posts, if others were more accepting of my particular viewpoint (which is formulated through my personal experience in the industry) then I would certainly be more accomodating towards their views, but oh no, they want it all their own way all the time. Maybe its really an inferiority complex, or is it just sheer arrogance?? Who knows?? All I can say here is that if they are allowed to post their comments in a "carte blanche" manner then I think that it is reasonable to post a reposte whenever required, and I will do so...(minus the swearing in future!!)
Danny, pprune moderators, et al, I joined pprune because it is immensely interesting to know what is happening in other airlines and sectors of the air transport industry, to find out what is really happening with the guys and girls on the ground (not having to read that press release twoddle that gets published in mags such as Flight International) and also, I have this perhaps naive hope that it is to the benefit of everybody at the sharp end of the business.
Yes, I think that pprune would benefit from restricted professional membership in certain forums, although I thought that this already existed in the airline forum list! I would certainly submit licence details ( pilot, flight engineer, and maintenance engineer) if it puts an end to the continual "slagging off" and the endless arguments that can never be resolved that goes on here. On the other hand, why not just ban personal opinions and let pprune exist to do what it does best, the free exchange of infomation and rumours which anyone is free to interpret and use as they choose, free of airline management and industry propaganda.

[JW411]

basil fawlty:

I have just read your posting and I would have to say that you would have failed my proposed entry-level spelling examination in spades!

I am sure that you are a really nice guy but you would be able to argue your point to much greater effect if you were, at the very least, to use the spell-checker with which most computers are equipped.

[The mole]

Perhaps there are two separate issues here:

1) Non-industry individuals who lack enough knowledge to contribute to discussions etc

2) As professional pilots we are trained to make decisions in potentially life-threatening situations that must ALWAYS be right. Therefore we are ALWAYS right. Not. Put five of us in a bar, add alcohol and we'll all agree, won't we? Now get 50 000 of us on a website, and there is an inevitable difference of opinion that will lead to flaming and personal insults. Just do not take it too seriously, that's all.

Perhaps the answer is licence numbers or staff numbers. Or how about an IQ test, or a sense of humour test.....


Keep safe

[MrNosy]

I don't think the idea of charging a subscription to use PPRuNe would work. It would probably destroy the site since, I guess, most of us could not be bothered to make the payment - we're all lazy - and it would not stop rubbish being posted, we'd just have to pay to read it.

I don't think limiting the site just to 'pilots' would work either, pilots are as capable of posting uninformed rubbish as the rest of us and, as others have pointed out, non-pilot's may have a valuable contribution to make to a thread. (I'm ex ATC but have worked for a firm of aviation insurance loss adjusters for many years now).

Having said what I don't think will work, I'm afraid I don't have a magic answer as to what will, other than continued policing by the moderators. Unlike some other similar sites PPRuNe seems to be far better at keeping the rubbish down so they are doing a good job.

[747-436]

If this site started using subscriptions for members how would it be administered. As there are some 50,000 members on this site and probarly numerous guests even if just half of these people subscribed PPRuNe would surely need to employ people to administer it as I am sure Capt PPRuNe et al could not sort out 20,000 + subsriptions in their spare time. Good idea but whether it is feasible is another matter.

[B Sousa]

JW411
Three things important in the Military are Shoot, Move and Communicate. Important here is the ability to Communicate. Those who get critical of ones grammer/spelling seem to be a bit Anal. As in cant see the Forest for the Trees. I, for one, am not a Rhoades Scholar. I mispell words and use bad grammer, but my ability to get my message across has been good enough to get me pulled from the forum a couple times. Thats Communication.

[The Mistress]

As one who has been libelled on both Jet Blast and the Military Forum I feel compelled to comment here. I was accused of being involved in an occupation which is illegal in my country of residence.

This was nothing to do with my knowledge (or lack of) aviation matters. It was purely a personal attack.

Yes, this BB IS read far and wide. The comments made against myself have caused me no end of problems with nazi bully boys and their partners in my local area.

I have no idea what these people are trying to achieve but they are behaving like complete a-holes. I can't move house because my offspring has 2 more academic years to serve at the local school. Besides which, I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of thinking they had driven my family out of town.

One compensation is that I have received e-mails from the real Moritz Suter who, of course, completely disassociated himself with the creature who haunted Jet Blast.

I disagree with Danny that it is immature to respond to such wind up merchants. When someone is causing damage (perhaps deliberately) then people in my situation should be allowed the right of reply.

I also note that Danny DOES respond to threads concerning Judaism and the Isreali/Palestinian conflict. This is a subject dear to his heart and is bound to touch a nerve.

If my nerve has been touched, then I too WILL respond.

I think this is a great site and will continue to read it as long as I have time and I will continue to post as long as I am allowed to. My experiences here are mostly positive. I have made some truly wonderful friends through the site and learned a great deal. I have been highly amused by some and touched by the plight of others.

LLoNg Live PPruNe

[JW411]

B Sousa:

I'm really sorry about this but I fear that you and I have a bit of a difference of opinion about the art of effective communication.

You are telling me that in effect you are too idle to use your spell-checker. This makes me wonder what else you can't be bothered to check when you go flying.

Accuracy is important. There is a huge difference between a hangar and a hangar for example. Try putting your helicopter in one of the former at the end of the day.

Your contention that verbal or phonetic communication is good enough for you reminds me of the famous yarn about the chap right on the front line who sent the message back to HQ by word of mouth "send reinforcements, we're going to advance". By the time it got to HQ it had turned into "send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance"!

Not that I ever went to university, I believe that a Rhodes scholarship will ensure entry into one of the Oxford universities. A Rhoades scholarship probably wouldn't even get you on to a bar stool in the University Arms.

I am not quite sure what to make of your military comments but since I only managed to fly in the military for 18 years (without a single desk job) I shall happily bow to your superior knowledge.

[amos2]

You are joking, of course, JW411, aren't you?
Aren't you?
Please don't tell us that you really do take yourself, and life, that seriously!!