**warning**
Chief PPRuNe Pilot
Thread Starter
**warning**
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
It would appear that it is that time of year again where many regulars have forgotten the big red words at the bottom of the pages (recreated above for those too lazy to scroll down) and too many newcomers haven't bothered to actually read them or are incapable of understanding them. If you are too stupid or immature to comprehend the meaning of the words in red then you shouldn't be on these forums. If you are actually posting on these forums and fail to apply the meaning of those red words then you are in danger of being removed forcibly.
I have noticed a trend over the last few months whereby some posters are so inceredibly naive that they believe we regular users of this forum cannot read between the lines and are unable to suss out who is and isn't a professional involved in the industry. Whilst the forums are here primarily for discussion of issues that affect professional pilots and we welcome input from others involved in the industry there has been an increasing trend of people who are only enthusiasts who feel they can ignore the red writing and post whatever they like. Well, the time has come to point out that the moderators and Admins of these forums are going to be clamping down on posters who are abusing their anonymity and who we feel are just 'pretenders' intent on having what they consider to be 'fun' at our expense.
If you have nothing to do with the industry and your posts show that to be the case, because most of us who are 'inside' can read between the lines, and the content is what we consider to be of dubious intent, then you are likely to have your posts removed. There will be an appeals process if you feel you have been unfairly censored and you will have to apply by email to [email protected] where your appeal will be reviewed. You will NOT be allowed to conduct your case in public on these forums and any breach of this will lead to a banning. We expect those that use these forums to be inteligent and mature enough to comprehend this.
Also, there are too many people just posting trivia or questions that have nothing to do with professional aviation and we are having to move the threads to more appropriate forums. In future many of the threads posted that are not relevant to this forums, and that includes rehashed press releases about airlines, routes and airports as well as requests from 'spotters' for info about something they may or may not have seen will be moved and no link to the thread will be left.
As usual, I have to step in when I see the forums being abused by a a minority who believe that because they are anonymous they can behave in a manner that is extremely offensive to many people. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this but if you cannot argue a point without resorting to personal attacks and abuse then don't bother posting because all you will be doing is increasing workload of the moderators, admins and myself which will eventually lead to a banning and a deletion of your handywork.
As an example I will use 411a. Whilst much of what he writes is controversial and some comments are designed to provoke a reaction such as mention of the 49ers or "not another co-pilot..." he does not descend into personal abuse and anyone who cannot reply with a reasoned counter argument, one that doesn't involve abuse, should not reply at all. If you have nothing constructive to counter an argument then don't reply at all. By descending into personal abuse you have lost the argument and taken the bait. It takes a mature and intelligent person to be able to just ignore a comment they don't like and by doing so, do more to show that the original comment that caused the anger is indeed just a reflection of the posters ignorance in the first place.
Moving on to 'enthusiasts', whilst you are free to read and learn what you can from the content of these forums, unless you are actually involved in the industry then please post any questions or views in the forums that are set up to cater for you. Reporting Points specifically is for news that directly involves professioanl pilots, directly or indirectly. I will leave a topic if I think it has relevance and a decent debate can be conducted. The current 'hot topic' "I am an army of one" is an example. It is a debate on how we view our current working conditions and is open for comments from anyone in the industry, especially management and pilots, but has unfortunately been hijacked by some individuals who are too busy with their own agendas and haven't the intelligence to comprehend the red writing.
Whilst I and the other moderators do our best to try and monitor the threads, many of you seem to forget that we do this in our spare time, in my case between a series of night flights for example and if there is no one around to check on a thread for a while that doesn't mean we will leave all posts intact when we do get around to reading them. It also means that we sometimes leave borderline posts because there are just not enough hours in the day for us to edit every single item. I am sure that some of you think PPRuNe is some sort of big organisation with offices and loads of staff. I wish! It is a bulletin board which has grown into an internatioanlly recognised forum and too many people do not read the red writing which leads to posts such as this one.
Finally, remember that what we write here is read by a much wider audience and if you are not a professional pilot or involved in the industry and you make a post on here that shows this to be the case your work will be edited or deleted. Too many people try to hijack this forum for their own, non professional aviation agendas and the time has come for a clampdown.
You have been warned!
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
It would appear that it is that time of year again where many regulars have forgotten the big red words at the bottom of the pages (recreated above for those too lazy to scroll down) and too many newcomers haven't bothered to actually read them or are incapable of understanding them. If you are too stupid or immature to comprehend the meaning of the words in red then you shouldn't be on these forums. If you are actually posting on these forums and fail to apply the meaning of those red words then you are in danger of being removed forcibly.
I have noticed a trend over the last few months whereby some posters are so inceredibly naive that they believe we regular users of this forum cannot read between the lines and are unable to suss out who is and isn't a professional involved in the industry. Whilst the forums are here primarily for discussion of issues that affect professional pilots and we welcome input from others involved in the industry there has been an increasing trend of people who are only enthusiasts who feel they can ignore the red writing and post whatever they like. Well, the time has come to point out that the moderators and Admins of these forums are going to be clamping down on posters who are abusing their anonymity and who we feel are just 'pretenders' intent on having what they consider to be 'fun' at our expense.
If you have nothing to do with the industry and your posts show that to be the case, because most of us who are 'inside' can read between the lines, and the content is what we consider to be of dubious intent, then you are likely to have your posts removed. There will be an appeals process if you feel you have been unfairly censored and you will have to apply by email to [email protected] where your appeal will be reviewed. You will NOT be allowed to conduct your case in public on these forums and any breach of this will lead to a banning. We expect those that use these forums to be inteligent and mature enough to comprehend this.
Also, there are too many people just posting trivia or questions that have nothing to do with professional aviation and we are having to move the threads to more appropriate forums. In future many of the threads posted that are not relevant to this forums, and that includes rehashed press releases about airlines, routes and airports as well as requests from 'spotters' for info about something they may or may not have seen will be moved and no link to the thread will be left.
As usual, I have to step in when I see the forums being abused by a a minority who believe that because they are anonymous they can behave in a manner that is extremely offensive to many people. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this but if you cannot argue a point without resorting to personal attacks and abuse then don't bother posting because all you will be doing is increasing workload of the moderators, admins and myself which will eventually lead to a banning and a deletion of your handywork.
As an example I will use 411a. Whilst much of what he writes is controversial and some comments are designed to provoke a reaction such as mention of the 49ers or "not another co-pilot..." he does not descend into personal abuse and anyone who cannot reply with a reasoned counter argument, one that doesn't involve abuse, should not reply at all. If you have nothing constructive to counter an argument then don't reply at all. By descending into personal abuse you have lost the argument and taken the bait. It takes a mature and intelligent person to be able to just ignore a comment they don't like and by doing so, do more to show that the original comment that caused the anger is indeed just a reflection of the posters ignorance in the first place.
Moving on to 'enthusiasts', whilst you are free to read and learn what you can from the content of these forums, unless you are actually involved in the industry then please post any questions or views in the forums that are set up to cater for you. Reporting Points specifically is for news that directly involves professioanl pilots, directly or indirectly. I will leave a topic if I think it has relevance and a decent debate can be conducted. The current 'hot topic' "I am an army of one" is an example. It is a debate on how we view our current working conditions and is open for comments from anyone in the industry, especially management and pilots, but has unfortunately been hijacked by some individuals who are too busy with their own agendas and haven't the intelligence to comprehend the red writing.
Whilst I and the other moderators do our best to try and monitor the threads, many of you seem to forget that we do this in our spare time, in my case between a series of night flights for example and if there is no one around to check on a thread for a while that doesn't mean we will leave all posts intact when we do get around to reading them. It also means that we sometimes leave borderline posts because there are just not enough hours in the day for us to edit every single item. I am sure that some of you think PPRuNe is some sort of big organisation with offices and loads of staff. I wish! It is a bulletin board which has grown into an internatioanlly recognised forum and too many people do not read the red writing which leads to posts such as this one.
Finally, remember that what we write here is read by a much wider audience and if you are not a professional pilot or involved in the industry and you make a post on here that shows this to be the case your work will be edited or deleted. Too many people try to hijack this forum for their own, non professional aviation agendas and the time has come for a clampdown.
You have been warned!
As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.
ENTREPPRUNEUR
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Maybe I've not been looking at PPRuNe enough recently but I'm slightly at a loss as to what has caused this. You mentioned non-commercial postings and verbal abuse but seem to primarily concerned with presumably the press, or the unscrupulous, eliciting certain reactions.
Your posting was quite long but seems to be saying "you know who I talking to and you know what you've done wrong". What happens if they don't?
Maybe you could be more specific, perhaps like this:
1 We have some rules on PPRuNE. If you break them we will punish you by deleting your entries and maybe disabling your user id.
The rules are
2a Do not pretend to be someone you are not
2b Do not say something authoritatively if you are not an authority.
2c Do not start or spread rumours you have reason to believe have no basis.
2d Do not make defamatory statements or representations that convey an unjustly unfavorable impression about a person or organsisation, or make statements without just cause and tending to expose people or organisations to public contempt.
...
2j Do not make personally offensive remarks just because you disagree with what someone is saying. Ignore postings that you feel are facetious or are making offensive remarks to you.
...
2x Do not copy information published elsewhere (eg news)
2y Do not post items in Reporting Points which relate to any aspect of aviation that is not commercial. This forum is for commercial issues - not simply for things of interest to commercial airline personnel.
....
If you made out a specific set of rules like this you could then put it in FAQ.
Your posting was quite long but seems to be saying "you know who I talking to and you know what you've done wrong". What happens if they don't?
Maybe you could be more specific, perhaps like this:
1 We have some rules on PPRuNE. If you break them we will punish you by deleting your entries and maybe disabling your user id.
The rules are
2a Do not pretend to be someone you are not
2b Do not say something authoritatively if you are not an authority.
2c Do not start or spread rumours you have reason to believe have no basis.
2d Do not make defamatory statements or representations that convey an unjustly unfavorable impression about a person or organsisation, or make statements without just cause and tending to expose people or organisations to public contempt.
...
2j Do not make personally offensive remarks just because you disagree with what someone is saying. Ignore postings that you feel are facetious or are making offensive remarks to you.
...
2x Do not copy information published elsewhere (eg news)
2y Do not post items in Reporting Points which relate to any aspect of aviation that is not commercial. This forum is for commercial issues - not simply for things of interest to commercial airline personnel.
....
If you made out a specific set of rules like this you could then put it in FAQ.
Join Date: Jan 1999
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Totally agree with you Danny, but I fear that you have become a victim of your own success.
For your own personal and deserved reward, and to keep more tabs on who is posting what, do you not think it is about time that some form of subscription charge is made. I certainly would be willing to pay 50$ a year if it kept the PROFESSIONAL pilots rumour network PROFESSIONAL.
For your own personal and deserved reward, and to keep more tabs on who is posting what, do you not think it is about time that some form of subscription charge is made. I certainly would be willing to pay 50$ a year if it kept the PROFESSIONAL pilots rumour network PROFESSIONAL.
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Gidday Dan,
Mate I and many others are so glad to see your post. I have for a long time pretty much avoided PPRUNE due to the dross it has gathered over the last few years. Your words are the best news since you changed from the old personal email list to the Bulletin Board format. This was a forum for Professional Pilots and I sincerely hope that it returns to that.
Dan thanks once again for all the PPRuNe teams efforts, and yours in particular!
zip out
Mate I and many others are so glad to see your post. I have for a long time pretty much avoided PPRUNE due to the dross it has gathered over the last few years. Your words are the best news since you changed from the old personal email list to the Bulletin Board format. This was a forum for Professional Pilots and I sincerely hope that it returns to that.
Dan thanks once again for all the PPRuNe teams efforts, and yours in particular!
zip out
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I agree with just about everything Capt Pprune said. However the last few posts are a bit worrying.
I am not a pilot but work in ground ops. The big issues effect me as much as they effect pilots. While I agree totally that gossip, name calling, libel, abuse etc is not to be tolerated, and that abuses of anonymity are also to be clamped down on, I feel the forums are best served by being available to anyone, pilot or not.
A charge would reduce the number of subscribers and contributors and probably leave only pilots.
You guys need to listen to alternative voices and opinions sometimes, and remember that you are one part of a very big team. You may get the stress and the responsibility, but you get the rewards, and without the rest of us you'd lose the lot, and vice versa of course!
This is a great site, important to the whole industry, and maybe a better protection would be to restrict more forums the way the private airline forums are run. Prove your relevancy to the industry and get in. And if we continue to abuse it, then I guess we've blown it for ourselves - stick a charge on and we'll leave you alone.
I am not a pilot but work in ground ops. The big issues effect me as much as they effect pilots. While I agree totally that gossip, name calling, libel, abuse etc is not to be tolerated, and that abuses of anonymity are also to be clamped down on, I feel the forums are best served by being available to anyone, pilot or not.
A charge would reduce the number of subscribers and contributors and probably leave only pilots.
You guys need to listen to alternative voices and opinions sometimes, and remember that you are one part of a very big team. You may get the stress and the responsibility, but you get the rewards, and without the rest of us you'd lose the lot, and vice versa of course!
This is a great site, important to the whole industry, and maybe a better protection would be to restrict more forums the way the private airline forums are run. Prove your relevancy to the industry and get in. And if we continue to abuse it, then I guess we've blown it for ourselves - stick a charge on and we'll leave you alone.
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Hi Danny,
I absolutely agree with your sticky. The importance of anonymity is, in my opinion, especially important (for our own safety) as this is a public forum with all kinds of people able to monitor what we (I) may say. I really don’t feel like to justify my options and doings to people who have no real understanding of the subject matter. I currently don’t fly actively anymore though I am still very much involved in aviation in terms of SID and STAR engineering or the implementation of a G-BAS system and the likes. Those of you familiar with the airport ops know that we have to deal with neighbouring countries and surrounding airport communities about noise and safety issues and a great deal of people actually feel the need to attack us in some way or shape.
Of course, we amongst this industry may differ on points within a discussion and I have absolutely no objections of disclosing my identity if I can be assured that my identity stays within this circle and is being handled with due respect.
Since I currently don’t belong to any airline, the specific airline forums are of limits to me as they should be, though I was asking my self if Pprune could not altogether be accessible only to those who are really involved in aviation whatever their current job may be, perhaps even through a one time processing fee of some sort. Naturally, such forums as Wannabes should be open to all so that aspiring aviation professionals can enjoy some inside help and information.
I don’t know if such “proving” of members is even possible, it was just a though. I guess, as some have already mentioned before, we either shape up or ship out. On the other hand, like crundale said, many non-flying industry colleges have a genuine interest and contribution value.
I absolutely agree with your sticky. The importance of anonymity is, in my opinion, especially important (for our own safety) as this is a public forum with all kinds of people able to monitor what we (I) may say. I really don’t feel like to justify my options and doings to people who have no real understanding of the subject matter. I currently don’t fly actively anymore though I am still very much involved in aviation in terms of SID and STAR engineering or the implementation of a G-BAS system and the likes. Those of you familiar with the airport ops know that we have to deal with neighbouring countries and surrounding airport communities about noise and safety issues and a great deal of people actually feel the need to attack us in some way or shape.
Of course, we amongst this industry may differ on points within a discussion and I have absolutely no objections of disclosing my identity if I can be assured that my identity stays within this circle and is being handled with due respect.
Since I currently don’t belong to any airline, the specific airline forums are of limits to me as they should be, though I was asking my self if Pprune could not altogether be accessible only to those who are really involved in aviation whatever their current job may be, perhaps even through a one time processing fee of some sort. Naturally, such forums as Wannabes should be open to all so that aspiring aviation professionals can enjoy some inside help and information.
I don’t know if such “proving” of members is even possible, it was just a though. I guess, as some have already mentioned before, we either shape up or ship out. On the other hand, like crundale said, many non-flying industry colleges have a genuine interest and contribution value.
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good points danny
Danny, affirm;
I agree with what you've said, perhaps it's time to introduce a
password entry onto this forum to ensure that it is not abused - similar to the airline forums password system.
I agree with what you've said, perhaps it's time to introduce a
password entry onto this forum to ensure that it is not abused - similar to the airline forums password system.
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Anyone who has a background in human behaviour knows that even the most "normal" humans resort to sub-intelectual behaviour, when allowed anonymity, argument and opinion all wrapped up in one. I sympathise with DF and his staff entirely. I wish however to point out that his "warning" contains no less than two or three direct insults and inapropriate statements; considering that they come from the manager (owner) of the world's most popular aviation conversation forum. In my own opinion, he could deal with this matter more effectively.
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While agreeing with what is said. people who want to "cause trouble" would still pay to get their enjoyment. Too many clubs are for members only, who decides who is good member materila. Everyone in aviation has something to add, not all may be the most relevant, but the old grey pilots have something to teach the young bold pilots (no offence ment to anyone)!!!!!!
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Danny,
would you mail me at [email protected] please.
I have some info for you regarding the decision of certain learned friends about PPrune.
would you mail me at [email protected] please.
I have some info for you regarding the decision of certain learned friends about PPrune.
Join Date: Apr 2000
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Hi Burger Thing
You Said
"I would appreciate if something would be done against this obvious Ryanair bashing. It is not only boring, it is in the meantime highly annoying. "
I'm afraid you will have to develop a bit of a thicker skin. At a local flying club the Go and Ryanair boys were taking flak. It made a nice change from the Birdseed boys needing tin hats. I always thought the banter and the ability to give and the P*$$ was a pre requisite.
Give a little out. The press have jumped on one point; Ryanair reacted (who said it was them anyway). Only you at Ryanair know how true it is. When you have figured it out, then apply same logic to every BA (read every airline) press snippet you have read.
Happy flying and safe flying
Regards
Wide
Edited to add smile
You Said
"I would appreciate if something would be done against this obvious Ryanair bashing. It is not only boring, it is in the meantime highly annoying. "
I'm afraid you will have to develop a bit of a thicker skin. At a local flying club the Go and Ryanair boys were taking flak. It made a nice change from the Birdseed boys needing tin hats. I always thought the banter and the ability to give and the P*$$ was a pre requisite.
Give a little out. The press have jumped on one point; Ryanair reacted (who said it was them anyway). Only you at Ryanair know how true it is. When you have figured it out, then apply same logic to every BA (read every airline) press snippet you have read.
Happy flying and safe flying
Regards
Wide
Edited to add smile