panda-k-bear

Good Lord Wino, you just can't help yourself, can you?

Now consider this - you say Airbus gets unfair subsidies. Well, I say the U.S. airlines get unfair subsidies of a different sort. The rest of the world's airlines have to compete with a bunch of bankrupt airlines that don't have to pay their bills. Tell us all, pray do, just how Chapter 11 is fair and isn't anti-competitive?

At least 2 of those airlines should be, that is not to say deserve to be, non-existant.

Glass houses and stones, old son.

WHBM

Here's some photographs of Boeing's "wasteful logistics" (ie the same way that Airbus does things) in action, shipping 737 fuselages across the USA.

http://nwownrailfan.com/archives/features/0204camp.html

You wouldn't want to produce the whole of the A300/320/330/340/380 in Toulouse (or anywhere else) alone anyway. The local economy couldn't supply the huge number of specialist jobs and skills required.

Taildragger67

Catchup,

I've not entered the A vs B debate before and I am not doing so now.

But your post was a wind-up, son. Nought more.

OK... so how many 747s have been ordered by US major pax carriers in, say, the past 10 years? Haven't heard that B are calling on the majors these days re the 747Adv, either.

Let's consider the other end of the scale. JetBlue seems to be doing rather better than any major (CO poss except) - with an all-A fleet.

Retract the cranium, mate.

catchup

It wasn't and it isn't my intention to start another A versus B debate.

Just wondering no American carrier (beside FedEx) ordered that ship.

Guess it's like WHBM wrote.


regards

20driver

WHBM
Wow - interesting link - sounds like a very fine tuned and economical logistics network. Real key is minimizing mode changes and intramode transfers. I'm willing to bet that Boeing is shipping those fuselages for a small percentage of what Airbus pays to ship their A380 wings. (Which are probably bigger and a more outsize shape than a 737 fuselage anyways so not really a fair comparison) Mind you they have had time to work this out and more importantly volume to work out the bugs and spread the fixed costs.

corklad

why would they even want to buy such a pink elephant? it hasnt even been PROVEN yet and i believe singapore are looking for some of their money back due to delays. with 787's, 777 Er etc, and embraeer 170 at the lower end why go to plastic airbus. it does make sense for fedex to buy them as they can stck more freight on board and not have to worry about pax terminals and gates etc and they would possible get the same range with more cargo. airbus is financed by the EU just like boeing is in the states, get over it it happens. you dont honestly believe that france pays for the airbus alone do you? it comes out of all your tax money and you have no say in the matter!! many so called national airlines in europe have been bailed out by their respective governments countless times. airlines in the states go bust too its only the legacy carriers that get bailed out, though i do think some need to be culled for the best interests of the industry. but can you honestly say if BA was in danger of going under the government wouldnt step in to save the nations flag carrier??? plus where on earth is the a380 going to operate out of. which english airports have been upgraded for it with gates and termianls? which english airline apart from virgin (shakey order too) have taken it up?? not british airways. willy walsh has some sense at least. all you boys with micky mouse easyjet need to get a life! how bout putting down your gaurdian newspaper in the cockpit and leaving your anti-american hysteria at home. beside in 10 yrs ryanair will knock easyjets socks off and you may all end up flying 737-800s! i for one am gietting sick and tired of reading english rahs spouting their xenophobia about anything that doesnt come from england followed by the EU, which they dont even like, at least we use euro here, and their anti-american attitude is just pathetic. leave that to the gardian tripe!

WHBM

Looks like the author of Ryanair's SOP manual has surfaced at last

panda-k-bear

corklad
Ha ha ha ha! You are kidding, aren't you?! Ah, the future of aviation - I've got tears streaming from my eyes with laughter... If you're serious and you want the error of your ways pointing out, do get in touch, won't you.
You'd really rather fly on an Embraer than an Airbus, would you?!!
Hee hee hee!

Mercenary Pilot

Out of interest, whats wrong with Embraer's?

Re-Heat

Corklad - you're looking for a website called airliners.net...

TheOddOne

(sic)

Well, Heathrow and Gatwick, for starters. Here at LGW we're spending loads on fillets on runway turnoffs, extended runway shoulders etc ready in case we get a diversion in early next year. Heathrow have built a whole new facility on Terminal 3 and already done the runway/taxiway work, all ready to go. LGW will get the Terminal infrastructure next year ahead of possible 2007 schedules.
Not only that, but our RFFS is gearing up for it, too.

Can't speak for other English airports such as Manchester...

Cheers,

The Odd One

RRAAMJET

This is turning into yet another miserable post with underlying tones of political dissatisfaction.
"We hate Yanks" - should be a new forum for all the malcontents to post their xenophobic rants....

How childish - on both sides of the discussion. And, as usual, there are many takers of the wind-up lures.

Pathetic.

corklad

Thanks for pointing that out to me "TheOddOne" useful information is always good on this site, and i humbly admit i was wrong to you about the state of on going upgrades, i stand corrected. Lets hope those airports get their upgrades ready before the locals protest about longer/extra runways. "panda-k-bear" you really are silly monkey arent you! you must go to sleep with a little airbus teedybear at night. embraer is a great company with great planes, even the royal air force uses embraer aircraft (tucano). are you now suggesting the RAF are idiots too?? do any of you guys actually read the scripts or just see stuff that isnt there?? i never said I wanted to fly the Embraer, though i wouldnt mind doing so. i've been in the BA ERj and enjoyed it, also US Airways Express Er170 and it was a really smooth ride. I'd never turn the oppertunity to fly a new plane whether it was made in brazil or russia, but hey thats just me. the point i was making was that all the hype over the A380 is just that hype...its not proven and its yet to fly for a single airline. and yes its all subsidised with EU tax money, therefore if the plane is flop it wont hurt airbus one little bit. however, it may turn out to be a really great plane, and id be the first to take my hat off to airbus if it does so. its not nearly as attractive as say the a340 in my opinion, but as i said earlier i certainly wouldnt turn down a shot flying it.

i was also trying to say that im totally sick and tired of reading anti american nonsense from the same people in every other thread these days. some how its become acceptable on pprune to bash americans at every oppertunity but you wouldnt dare go on in the same way about blacks or jews or muslims in the same manner. its really quite sad and pathetic and its amazing how the moderators let it slide.

Now on to the other part of the topic. ryaniar, however terrible they appear, is, i say, is, going to rule europe in the next 10yrs. they'll force squeesy-jet outta the market, mark my words. they are opening more routes and buying more planes and under-cutting all their competition year after year! just because you dont like someone doesn't mean they arent going to beat you. and as you obviously figured out i dont fly for ryanair or write their sop's (though i did find that comment funny i have to admit). they are ruthless and for the most part efficient and keep getting away with it, year after year. easyjet in terms of service are no better. ryanair are blunt and direct with it, take it or leave it is their attitude, where else will you get a one euro flight. easyjet's spotty faced teenagers just smile and shrugg their shoulders and pretend its not their fault. its like dealing with vicki pollards at their ticket counter "no but, yeah but"!! anyway, im sure there will be plenty of come back of how wrong i am. so go for it.

Taildragger67

Catchup

OK sorry for my vitriol.

However I think there's an easy answer:

None of them can afford it. If they could, the last 747 order from an US passenger carrier would've been more recent than January 2001.

The US carriers are going after the point-to-point model - hence they are looking to replace their old point-to-point aircraft (767s).

It's simple money and passenger volume.

TD67

panda-k-bear

1) what's wrong with Embraer's - pay a visit to their factory and look at the construction methods. Have a look at their factory in the Gers in France, putting together fuselage sections and tell me that's not what the French would call "bricolage".

2) Why, corklad, do they need to extend the runways? Are you suggesting it's because of the A380? The A380 has take-off and landing performance as good or better than (depending on cricumstances) a 747-400 according to the data provided by Airbus to the airline I work for. If that's true, why are extensions needed?

3) Name the routes on which Ryanair and easyJet DIRECTLY compete? Now tell us all why that is.

4) As for attitudes, at least easyJet crew give off an attitude of actually enjoying their work. I've yet to experience that with Ryanair.

As for the comments about how "pretty" an aeroplane is, God help us. Why does that make an aircraft any better than any other? Because it's nice to look at?!

And if you bother to read anything about Boeing and Airbus you'll se they are as bad as each other so don't pretend otherwise.

ATCO1987

Ok I went to EGTG yesterday expecting the A380 as I was told it was coming in at 1230. And all that came in was an A346! GRR!

Dan.

leighton

I always thought 'BA' meant 'Boeing Always'.

The original B747 was built for a competition for a large Military Freighter for the US Airforce. The competition was won by the C5 Galaxy. But the US airforce paid for the original B747.
I don't think RAF or any other European airforce pays for prototypes?

MarkD

corklad

wind your neck in there feen. You're making yourself look like an awful gowl.

Comparing a 100 seat ERJ with a 555+ seat Airbus and referring to the 787 as better than a plastic bus when the 787 is being sold on its weight savings due composites is truly the stuff of rampant fanboy airliners.net stuff - the only difference seems to be that Danny doesn't force people to pay before posting and airliners does. Maybe he should take note.

The 787 is an excellent aircraft for the North American market which is leaning more towards point to point but the A380 is not necessarily tailored for that market except serving high density slot restricted markets like JFK-LHR/CDG/FRA. Can't put 2 787s on if you've only got one slot.

Embraer does produce some nice aircraft, Air Canada just got some, but remember they get massive taxpayer support proportional to company size from Brazil which makes it easier to kick Bombardier around. Embraer are only now (with the 195) coming to the point of competing with Airbus and Boeing products.

As for longer runways, A380 is quite well accommodated by existing 744 capable runways (see this week's flight on their FAA prompted testing on 45m wide strips) and likely less stressful on said runways than a 773ER (ask Air France).

The RAF may have selected Tucano (which I seem to recall was not a completely happy choice but you are free to ask those in Mil Forum) but they have also selected A330K over 767K if they ever get the Treasury to open the purse.

As for your points on FR - kinda off topic no? Also I think you should post your own picture before sounding off on spotty easyjetters.

corklad

My word, again i have to ask the question do people actually read the threads here or just insert mythical inferrals and references?? its truely amazing! Mark D, sorry boy, but if you read my original script PROPERLY you would see that i did not compare an embraer to an 555+ seat airbus (how stupid a remark would that be). what i said was its a great lower end model to compete against A319 or B737 etc. You also missed the point that it was not i who orriginally suggested that runway lengths needed to be increased, that was information passed on by "TheOddOne" and in fairness i think what HE was getting at was taxi ways and general runway infrastructure ugrading. i was talking about gates and terminals!! Anyway i was NEVER said the Embraer is better than an airbus or a boeing or a sabb (again READ the damn post)! I was trying to to say to all the airbus fun club to stop hyping up a plane that hasnt even flown yet for an airline nor proven itself and which in fact is running behind schedule. what the hell is your point about Embraer getting finance from brazil all about? its nonsensical! every state that manufactures planes supports it for political reason to keep jobs and tries its best to save it even during bankrupcy. its true for boeing or airbus or saab, i dare say its true for embraer and bombardier Crj and all the others out there. again think about what you are trying to say before you jump the gun, you only make youself look silly. As for the Raf using the Airbus...well duh! politics matey! they hung onto the tornado F3, the biggest heap of junk for years due to political pressure from BAe (ie all the jobs that would be lost and greedy awful yanks would come in and replace our eurofighter if we go down that road etc etc) when the RAf wanted to lease f16s and look at other alternatives till the typhoon came in. The tacano from what here works just fine so i dont know what your point its there. FR was off topic i agree but more a response to a challange in an earlier thread.

Panda k bear, as far as factory assembly goes. I cannot say that i have been to an embraer factory, or any other factory where the essamble large aircraft but if you say that you have and their methods are shoddy well I cannot disprove you but I dont quite believe it. sorry what you are suggesting is kinda slanderours too. why do you dislike ERJ so much? Do you equally dislike the CRJ and MD? Again i should point out im not a poster boy fan of the ERJ, I was using it as an EXAMPLE of a different aircraft to airbus or even boeing, I could have just said a BAE146. Again guys read carefully and make sure you understand whats being said not racing through material and coming up with all the wrong conclusions.
AS for looks...now come on mate you cannot honestly put you hand on your heart and say looks do not count. if you asked any pilot whether or not they'd like a go at flying say the concord or a fokker 50...well you get the point.

Again all i was saying was the A380 isnt there yet so i wouldnt get all wet about it at night, plus read flight international, good article about it out just now.

Finally i was making the point about all the anti-american hype on the message boards these days. interesting how all the come-back havent brought that up. perhaps they agree and have to attack in other ways, if only they could ready properly.

cheers

panda-k-bear

corkchild,
Do you know what the word "infer" means? Go into your school library and look it up and then tell me what this sentence: "with 787's, 777 Er etc, and embraeer 170 at the lower end why go to plastic airbus" infers. Where does that, anywhere, draw a comparison?

I think you mean slanderous, don't you? If so, look it up and look at what I wrote. Borrow the French dictionary as well and look up "bricolage".

I don't equally dislike CRJs or any other. It is only the disposable Barbie jet that I dislike. When you grow up, maybe you'd like to run evaluations of competing aircraft models, as I do for my company, to help make recommendations as to what to buy. That way you'd begin to learn things like this, along with other bits and pieces such as it really doesn't matter WHAT an aircraft looks like so long as it performs well, is economical, reliable and above all is safe.

I note with interest that after your Ryanair bleating you appear to be unable to tell me on which routes easy and Ryan DIRECTLY compete. Interesting. Maybe you could do that for your next school project?