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How long are you going to wait, wait and wait?

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How long are you going to wait, wait and wait?

Old 5th Jun 2011, 05:37
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 107
How long are you going to wait, wait and wait?

This is a question to jobless Indian CPL holders, Seriously guys how long are you going to wait for your first job as a FO? 3 years, 4 or 10?? I dont think its is really appropriate for a guy to wait till his 30s eating his parents money, for a girl its ok she can be a housewife in the mean time..but the boys?? it wont be nice people.

I am searching for that first job and its been nearly 2.5 yearswhereas my other friends who did engineering are working with companies earning decent salary and even ready for marriage, on the other end there are many who did CPL after me and are flying a big shiny jet for a fat salary all because they had contacts and had the money to pay for ratings and even build hours...So where we are really heading?? Is this the time where you need to spend over 50 lac to get CPL, Rating and build hours to get the job ?

Its not worth it guys...DGCA is corrupt, AI is on the edge to fall, QR EK are destroying the Indian international airlines ,other airlines asking for money for exams and even if you pass more 15 lacs...

People are saying, hang in there, hang in there, the good times are comming..where? Good times are comming only for the ones with money and contacts not for the middle class who took loans and spent our parents hard earned cash...

I cant believe some are even planning to go after hearing all these. A guy who just completed his 12th came to me and ask how can I be a pilot, and I had to be a pilot if your dad is a captain or a politician in the airline, if not then forget it and I told him even more and said i am out of work for like 2,5 years and he said yes yes and yes but yesterday he left the country to go to USA to do his training....I cant believe people are even like this, I told him so much and much but he didnt listen to me after all, now his 30 lac are going nowhere, I even warned his dad but he is also the same case, looks like some people have to experience it before believing. We cant blam some cause many of us left for training during the good times but there is no excuse for the ones who are leaving today..

as far as i heard there are some 3000-4000 still training aboard, some 2000 are in the procces of converting which makes a total of nearly 15000 unemployed pilots in the country, that is more then enough supply for like 35 years.....which proves SOME OF US WILL NEVER GET A PILOT JOB.!!!!!

SO how long are you going to hang in there, i am sure at one point you need to throw all and move on.....I am giving myself another 2 years till I finish my degree thru correspondence and my CPL might be in the dustbin soon...and move on with my life with a decent job
vdaff is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2011, 08:46
  #2 (permalink)  
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@ vdaff

15000 unemployed pilots?? dude r u crazy ?? whats with all the negativity ? and BTW how much are ur engineer friends earning? 30 max 40k a month gross...working 12 hours a day continuously for 6 days a week ?? i hope u know pilots get more than a lac nett as their starting salary...so i believe to have these kind of benefits u need to go through an equal amount of pain. Nothing that is worthwhile is easy and nothing that is easy is worthwhile. Forget the captains/politicians sons n daughters...they were born with a sliver spoon up their ass.. u should worry about urself getting a job and thats pretty much it.

I recently cleared the Indigo written exam and will be going to KL shortly. and mind u i got my license in 2008 and i am too from a middle class family. I know the type rating pinches rather creates a hole in our pockets but if u manage a loan somehow u can easily pay it off in a year or 2 year's time as u know for sure that u r gonna get a job this time. I know what what i have been thru for the past 3 years but the way i see it, its the journey that is the most memorable and not the destination , and well its been one hell of a ride.

At the end of it all , i know that i have ACTUALLY EARNED this job and i will enjoy it in a far better way than any of those politicians/captains sons & daughters. So, stop posting such depressing material, be patient and study harder to achieve what u once thought of achieving.

To everyone else, dont worry just hang in there n keep preparing. Indigo has 60 more aircrafts on firm order and i think everybody knows about the 180 orders that it placed earlier this year. they r conducting their exams on a regular basis and its the most genuine recruiting process going on currently in indian aviation. Once jet has stabilized it too will be recruiting again. Kingfisher n Air india are expected to join in but a lil later. So be prepared and dont give up... cuz tht isnt something a pilot does.
freerunner is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2011, 09:31
  #3 (permalink)  
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Dude I do understand you also, I rather earn 40k and work 6 days than to sit at home and finishing of my parents money. And whats wrong in working as an engineer, a lot of people are doing that, you taking like pilot job is the only good out there. If i did engineering At least I would have been living with some dignity and some respect from others. I get hurt inside when my friends go to work and gets more respect compared to me just sitting at home and eating. I feel ashamed to ask my dad to buy me that cause he already spend some 20 lacs for me and now I cant ask him more.

Some of you guys are lucky, but I dont think all can get into indigo or others, yes you worked hard, but thats like 1 in 100s gets the chance. I also worked hard, so does my friends, we studied very hard for the Indigo, infact one whole night and did some 1000s of questions but in the end in that exams only 3 passed while 100s of us were sent home. And Spicejet, they asking for 20 000, I cant afford to lose money like this all the time. if they didnt charge anything or at least 1000 ruppes max i would have attended it happily.

Yes Indigo has many planes on order but India has already has enough supply of pilots, 15000 is expected number end of this year, not a lie, do some research buddy you will know. And do you know flytech academy, it trained like 600 pilots last 3 year and none of them are employed as of now. There are 1000s still doing their training aboard.

I also want to get in the right way and I know i all depends on luck even tho if you work hard we still need to shed out money.... I already know 1 girl who gave up her job search and now working in a BPO and many are also going to do the same....

Its not worth it anymore
vdaff is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2011, 10:02
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
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@ vdaff

So are u going to try only once ?? and dude seriously that 1 whole night thing made me laugh... u dont know how many nights in fact years have gone preparing for these exams... studying a week or 2 before the exam isnt gonna get u anywhere... if u want i'll help u out with the portion..5 oxford books thats it...instruments,radio nav, general nav, human perf & principles of flight. Master them & then give the exam. And go through the indigo call letter thread page by page to get any relevant info regarding the exam.

Anyways, i stand by my opinion and i respect urs too but just dont agree to it.
freerunner is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2011, 14:08
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: CA, USA
Posts: 29

In 2008- 2009 and early 2010, there were hardly any vacancy opening in aviation, leaving Air India which was a total eyewash and soon they are going down the drains (no offense). And now, talk about this year, we have had Jet, Kingfisher, Indigo, Spicejet, Blue dart and not to forget the coast guard, came up with slots and guys have got through( by hook/ crook/ or sticking ur ass on the chair and burning the midnight oil).

What I mean to say is there are good times coming up and you shouldn't loose your heart. We all do know that many guys have got the job through links and cmon, seriously speaking if you had the back door option, it would be hard to resist. And there are genuine guys who gave their ass out and got the job. Ultimately its the job you want, once you have it you won't give a jack ass shit about the unemployment situation in India. So there are two types of ways, you have to choose which one suits you

Talking about hard work, its the competition amongst the figure. You got to be among the best and assured a one night and 1000 QnA won't do at all. Believe me.
The aviation growth is good now and if you are good there will be a plenty of chances to find your place. A friends of mine who got through the Jet writtens this year, had cleared the KFA, Indigo and the Spice Jet and he chose to be in Spicejet as SJ sponsors for the TR. He just came back from Canada getting TR on Q400( not sure of the same model). He will be based in Hyd and he was in the same situation as you are in now.

Bro there will always be a way, you got to have the drive in you. The question is how far you will go to get the job?

PS: I got through the last year Jet selection, purely through hard work.
antigravity61 is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2011, 14:44
  #6 (permalink)  
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I hope you do realise that if AI does go down the drain none of the current unemployed pilots would every fly for an airline in India in their lifetime. Do you think all the Pvt. airlines will want to hire you when there will be thousands of experienced pilots available in the market?
flyjet787 is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2011, 16:30
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Lets pray it doesn't happen to the national airline of India, it a question of prestige but the scene looks pretty bad. I don't mean to insult the NACIL but its the present fact. Too much of corruption in the company.

Do you think was it fair for AI to call back the pilots from the selection process which was suppose to be cancelled in 2009? Its just one of the few causes.

There is a big issue of corruption in the company brother and if it doesn't stop sooner. Well, it wouldn't be far.
With the present infrastructure in AI and the no. of planes any company would grab the opportunity if the for Christ sakes the company fails, which means the man power will still be absorbed.

Personally if feel the unemployment would be least affected unless the aircrafts are leased/ sold to the foreign company.
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Old 5th Jun 2011, 17:18
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Ok.. when you used the words "going down the drain" I thought u meant the airline shutting down. And my previous reply was assuming the airline shut down completely.

The last thing this industry needs at this point with so many unemployed pilots is for an airline to shut down or cut down on fleet and lay off pilots.
flyjet787 is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2011, 17:39
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2010
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@ Freerunner

Please chk your PM
DJ Flyboy is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2011, 05:45
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2011
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Posts: 75
for a girl its ok she can be a housewife in the mean time..but the boys??
thats very wrong thinking .... time is changing, my parents have always treated me and my brother equally so I am equally responsible for my family. Dont be under impression that we work just for fun.
3443 nautical miles is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2011, 07:43
  #11 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2010
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To get your first job as an FO in an airline in India right after a CPL with bare minimum hours you either need some real good connections or just sheer luck.

Some have either of the two, few have both.

Ofcourse, another thing that indeed helps is lack of COMPETITION.
(Which is why you'd find a lot of people who managed to get airline jobs back in 2004-2007 without pulling any strings.)
These very people would cry hoarse all their lives about how hardworking and "truly deserving" they are of their jobs, when in fact, the only reason they managed to get a job was that they had all their licenses and papers in order at the right place and time.

Thats the plain cold hard FACT. Those who can accept this will be able to put up with the insurmountable griefs that one often faces in this industry.

Get this one thing very clear all you young aspirants :

Your HARDWORK, TALENT, MERIT are given ZILCH importance in airline selections.

Some of you may say now that you or your best friends managed to get into Indigo, SG, Jet Airways, Air India etc through your own "merit" without having any contacts or "jugad" after burning midnight oil etc.

Then again, remember that in each airline recruitment, a very small number of candidates (lacking contacts) do get selected on merit. That number if very minuscule compared to the number of people appearing for the written exams.

In many cases, airlines simply take in a few random candidates who just get the bare minimum pass marks. This is just so that the airline maintains a "credible image" in the eye of the public and media and no eyebrows are raised too much.

In any case, if any questions are raised about the airline's selection process anytime, they are sure that these very people (like some in this forum) will vehemently deny it and speak in support of the airline's CLEAN and FAIR selection process.

Here's something to ponder :

There are many undeserving dumb candidates who managed to get into airlines WITHOUT contacts/jugad ALONG with all the so called "smart" candidates. How did they manage that ?

The selection process of all the airlines itself are flawed. Some of the interviews are conducted to a reasonably good standard, but the initial written tests to eliminate candidates in the first round is the real issue.

The major problem is :

You may be a very hard working, intelligent candidate.
However, on that particular day of the written exam of the airline, you might lose 2 or 3 marks simply because you might have got a couple of questions incorrect.
Questions on topics or subjects otherwise unrelated to flying or poorly framed questions with plain stupid choices. (yes, I have myself seen some of the questions asked in Indian airlines written exams)

Now, what is also possible is that some good-for-nothing dumb candidate might have got lucky and guessed those very questions correct. (The ones you got wrong.)
Some other candidate equally hardworking like you may have got them right.
and look at the number of candidates appearing for airline exams for trainee FO positions !! THOUSANDS !!

Now, that 1 or 2 marks that you lost will put you down the "merit list" by several hundreds, in a list consisting of several thousand candidates !

Therefore, to sum it up, the biggest problem in India in almost every industry and sphere of life is it's huge population.
We are just seeing one small aspect of the perils of population explosion.

I understand its a sorry state of affairs for many. The lucky few who make it (through hook or crook) must be atleast kind, helpful and supportive of the not so lucky ones.
estranged soul is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2011, 15:06
  #12 (permalink)  
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Posts: 107
The number is at alarming rate, by the end of this year there will be 10000+ unemployed, like I said some of us will never get to fly for a living.....future is not good people

if you are a wannabe then pls dont study to be a pilot its worthless, completely worthless
vdaff is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2011, 17:13
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Moon
Posts: 271
VDAFF - Will you reply back at those who sent you PM's ??

Lad their are many people asking for 600 question bank that you declared in Indigo Thread,which is available on request...i guess you can either send an reply stating your not comfortable to pass that question bank to all at random or else revert back in that thread itself giving it on mails.

I guess you could be a more helpful in real life when it matters rather than showing discomfort and displeasure on how many pilots got into Airlines by back door with a silver spoon...or speculating how many unemployed pilots are going to join the glut....or shouting about young pilot who got married becaue his inlaws didn't wanted to miss the moneybag " AI 777 pilot " son inlaw for their eye candy 21girl.

Man if you dont intend to pass on something then you should not DISPLAY about it without any INTENTION of giving it.

PS: Their are many people who are willing to help and doing it in a way that can be atmost judged as HELP by providing clues or manuals for particular type's - Adityaslg /Cyrilroy and many others ...
Johny Boy is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2011, 18:07
  #14 (permalink)  
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@Johny boy

I did send them to some people will be sending them soon

I am just stating the facts out here and the current situation of the unemployed pilots, we cant make our self feel good by saying jobs are coming, hang on and blah blah blah, situation is at its worst
vdaff is offline  
Old 6th Jun 2011, 19:56
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
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This has been same like ages.....there is nothing new in facts that is being stated in this thread.This field is same like any other field which follows CYCLICAL stages and what you are witnessing right now is acute downturn caused by worldwide economic situation of past few years that you surely must be knowing ..and if you are new in Indian Aviation and i guess you are going by your posts then you may find all this amusing yet disappointing but thats sorry state of Aviation which you me and many others are part off.

Showing dissent towards a newbie trying to find how things work in Indian aviation with being supplied with disappointing answer from a licensed pilot will not stop that starry eyed dreamer to jump the boat of DREAM's created by FAKE agents showing how " You can become pilot in 10 months and earn 24 lakhs in a year "..... which where displaced all over the national news papers till few months ago before being replaced by Type Rating Providing cum Job Placement CONS.

Point in my post is that you cant stop anyone for just cause of " hey this river is overflowing right now please dont swim or else you will be swept away just like it did to me "....If you could have taken account of what it was being pilot in India before going to CPL training then i think you wont be here trying to light facts of being Pilot in India.This state is same like in 1970's/ 1980's and particularly in mid 1990's when many new Private Airliners came with zigzag logo's in their outdated planes that seemed National Geographic History's specialized Planes put out from Museums for sake glorifying Indian Aviation ....yet many pilots got squeezed by asian financial crisis in that period which closed shops for this airlines in India but one-two survived ....and that Financial crises swept Asia's first airliner into deep red along with our own national carrier that was hampered by all spaces( Govt.....Babu's....Private airlines-Jet....and lazy unruly staff ) but those pilot who waited with patience came back with a bang & now are taking SIM Checks.....on new and old pilots.

See what patience can bring??

Being letdown by seeing your fellow friend earning a decent money in other career makes me think ....did some of you just joined Aviation for Money because one guy over here said " how much your friend earns- 30k,40k ?....and what we pilots will earn - 200k in a month..... "...man their is always an Old saying....get a backup and atleast a basic education that can save someone going low on life without flying job.

And about Pilots going in from backdoor/frontdoor/leftdoor or bloody any damn door has nothing to do with an sincere hard working guy who knows his limitations and works around his limit by waiting in the wings for his time and when that time comes he will jump higher & higher than rest.A silver spoon feed pilot is lucky to have silver as his lining along with Daddy to sponsor him or her but not an ordinary guy like may be you or rest in this forum....and as " Estranged Soul " said - that pilot is damn lucky to have Daddy and Push for first right seat.So why to compare or feel bad when we know our own limitations.
No one want to loose a chance when he knows someone can make his path a bit easy so if i was that guy with Politician Uncle then will you think i wont have taken that chance??....same goes for many others.....Ethics dont work when you badly need that First Job to kick start you flying life....

Got my point?
There are jobs for takers and mind it this are not for those Daddy's eye candy's ( who can always find a hole towards that shinny jet's right seat)....Jet came with vacancies twice in 6 months gap ....Indigo is hiring 6-8 guys on monthly basis.....If some one took risk with TR on 737/320 last year they must have been on Online now in Jet / Goair and lately Indigo....

Yes for Spicejet its always the case of whom you know and how much you know in the boardroom cons of SG.....but hey this Airline is Own'ed by Scam Masters......Run by Conmans and Conwomens- yes that ugly lady....Flown by ( sorry to say....)Pilots with Padded Logbooks who cant even do a High Speed TAXI( not many but dozens of them who where chosen in 2008-2009 time over CADETS who spent 4 years on ground......).

Anyways i assume you are new and may be waiting for last 1 -2 -3 or 5 years but this is Indian Aviation where anything can happen that is least perceived and have been like this since days of my Grand Dad and yes i was born into this mess .....

Cheers !
Johny Boy is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2011, 13:54
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Posts: 336
Most of the young aspirants here are in it for the money. Period. End of discussion.
If you really "loved to fly", you would have taken the more difficult but fair and transparent route: joined the Airforce/Navy/Coast Guard.You would have trained for free,gained valuable experience,lived honourably and served your country in the bargain.But,nooooo, you wanted Daddy to fund an easy ride to the shiny airliner where you can make 200k per month.You didn't even have the testicular fortitude to get a job and fund your own training. Sorry,pal, you don't get any sympathy from me. You chose the easy way out and it is coming back to bite you in the ass.If you are that disgusted, quit. We don't want whiners in the sky anyway.Plenty of those around,especially in India.
Like it has been said may times before: if you are in it for the money,you are in the wrong business. The boom is over. Get over it and get on with your life.DGCA or the culture of the Indian nation is not going to change overnight for you to get your dream job.So, go get an engineering degree and live happily with 40 to50k a month. And, while you are at it, pay back your dad.Try and regain some honour in this god awful mess you have created.
alouette3 is offline  
Old 12th Jun 2011, 12:33
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Posts: 191
The number is at alarming rate, by the end of this year there will be 10000+ unemployed,
I really doubt, the figures must be around 5000-6000
vserian is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2011, 17:21
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 153

I totally agree with that.....

Everyone wants to get in the right seat of a 737 or 320 after 250 hrs a fesh CPL. What about paying their dues in the process....

There are 2 types who make it in Aviation as a pilot.
1) Born with a Diamond studded silver spoon DIFFERENT CATAGORY
2) Those not in the above catagory & Those who don't give up... those who keep the focus & also by paying their dues & flying whatever that flies, ask any senior airline pilot, was it easy for them & U will be surprised to hear their struggle stories........

In the USA, there is a lot of flying, propbably more airplanes just parked on a small municipal airport than there are total number of aircraft registered in India.

The pilots go through the same struggle, if it is not FAA(THE DGCA equivalent) then there is something else......

People banner tow, do flight instructing, fly all night alone in a small single engine or twin carrying cargo for petty wages, sometimes the Janitors working in their company make more than pilots, pilots would buy beg borrow steal, whatever it takes to get the real PIC experience of about 1500 to 2000 hrs with about 300 to 400 multi time & sometimes it may take about 3-4 yrs doing that & then someone gets hired by a regional flying a Metroliner or a CRJ.

And by the way, after all the struggle to reach a CRJ or metroliner at a Regional airline, the 1st year Regional airlines pilots make less than people working at McDonalds......

Then after 5-7 yrs at a regional airline, people think about getting hired in a major airline flying a 737 as a first officer......

It happens only in INDIA when a fresh 250 hrs or now a 200 hrs guy will go to a Airbus or 737 & then earn so much, so if the destination is that close, there has to be some hardship........
pilotbaba is offline  
Old 13th Jun 2011, 17:50
  #19 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Moon
Posts: 271
In India there is NO General Aviation.

In India Population of common masses are not same as USA.....now take Pilot per plane in USA and compare it with Indian pilots Vs VT- planes.

Airlines in India behaves as if they are GOD's sent messiah's to local pilot population, Regional's in India act as International Airliners and Chartered service providers play tough by knocking local pilots with a punch known as Pay for Rating/Hours on our aircraft's that will build your career.Will you find that in USA........

Do not compare things....comparing has never yielded anything in past nor will it yield in present or in future.
Change the system if there is any possibility of some sort off...be it a very minute one but when there is nothing to change its better to accept that fact and try to manage what can be manageable just like working hard & having patience without throwing cash to land job.

Anyone who desire to work in Indian Aviation will be just same close to 250 hours baby or in a range of 200 - 500 hours.
When you have NO GA to accumulate hours with family limitations( Many pilots have family considerations that make impossible for them to move out for job in some other countries...there are many other such factors which even derails seasoned skippers to chose for) ....so you can either land defense flying job( Not to mention all those bloody medical standards and age limits ) or fly in Airlines.
Now those who wanna have flying career knows only 1 thing - Airlines.
This has been same since ages in India.
Johny Boy is offline  
Old 24th Jun 2011, 17:16
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: delhi
Posts: 10
a320 or B 737

jus a quick question guys ...if 1 has to go in for a type rating right now whats a better option boeing 737 or airbus 320 in order to get a job
angmavrick is offline  

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