BE-76 aka duchess not recognised by Indian DGCA anymore
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Anyway, I'm not giving up this fight. I will give it to them real bad if they don't issue me a BE76 endorsement. There is no way I would give up and shell out 4 lacs for another multi-engine endorsement.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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with u smurf
i'm with smurf ..... 
Lets hit a plan ..... if we are gonna worry about other guys, who got their license issued with be 76 in recent times are gonna be in trouble then i say who cares ...... this is all about survival ....truth is nobody cares abt ur problem except u and urself
lets start worrying about ourselves and stop being budha ....
finally its not about the effort or money involved but abt the DGCA's incapable officials... time to walk and not the talk
let me know what ur upto smurf and other who thumbs up this......
cheers
Lets hit a plan ..... if we are gonna worry about other guys, who got their license issued with be 76 in recent times are gonna be in trouble then i say who cares ...... this is all about survival ....truth is nobody cares abt ur problem except u and urself
lets start worrying about ourselves and stop being budha ....
finally its not about the effort or money involved but abt the DGCA's incapable officials... time to walk and not the talk
let me know what ur upto smurf and other who thumbs up this......
cheers
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Hi,
I had filed a RTI with the DAW,DGCA seeking an explanation on the Seneca issue on May 31 and have not received any response till date. I am planning to file an appeal as per the RTI provisions.
I will keep you guys posted if I hear anything further on this. A similar effort should be taken by the guys who are suffering with the Duchess issue. I know of one guy who had recently completed his flying on the duchess and went back to US to fly on the Seneca due to this problem. We are talking about a minimum of 3-4 lakhs of money just because few DGCA officials decided to wake up after 3 years and interpret a rule differently.
A joint effort on this issue by everyone who has been affected is required.
I had filed a RTI with the DAW,DGCA seeking an explanation on the Seneca issue on May 31 and have not received any response till date. I am planning to file an appeal as per the RTI provisions.
I will keep you guys posted if I hear anything further on this. A similar effort should be taken by the guys who are suffering with the Duchess issue. I know of one guy who had recently completed his flying on the duchess and went back to US to fly on the Seneca due to this problem. We are talking about a minimum of 3-4 lakhs of money just because few DGCA officials decided to wake up after 3 years and interpret a rule differently.
A joint effort on this issue by everyone who has been affected is required.
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I went to the DAW in May to confirm if one can fly on a Piper Seneca 2 (PA-34 200T) based on the valid COA's for Seneca 3,4 and 5. All the officers refused to comment on this and told me that they will formally inform the Licensing department when I submit my papers for endorsement after completing my flying on the Seneca 2.
How can I take the risk? Its very easy for them to ask me to fly again on some other a/c. So I decided to file an RTI to seek a written and formal confirmation before I can proceed for my flying.
The flight school that I am interested to train has Seneca 2 and I need to sort this issue out before I leave. Wondering if anyone has any updated information on this?
@issues: I understand that you were also affected by this and have found a PA-34 220T for your training. So I dont think its a problem for you.
I am also aware that two Seneca 1 have been registered in India recently but the only Seneca 2 in India is out of service due to a belly landing in the winter of 2010.
How can I take the risk? Its very easy for them to ask me to fly again on some other a/c. So I decided to file an RTI to seek a written and formal confirmation before I can proceed for my flying.
The flight school that I am interested to train has Seneca 2 and I need to sort this issue out before I leave. Wondering if anyone has any updated information on this?
@issues: I understand that you were also affected by this and have found a PA-34 220T for your training. So I dont think its a problem for you.
I am also aware that two Seneca 1 have been registered in India recently but the only Seneca 2 in India is out of service due to a belly landing in the winter of 2010.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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In my opinion the DGCA must be disbanded. We need a new regulatory body for Civil Aviation. It would be best to outsource this department to a competent third party body overseas or to privatise the Department of Civil Aviation.
The DGCA are not only incompetant. they are also corrupt to the core. At the reception desk, where your phone calls go to, no one can speak proper English. They aren't even capable of connecting you through to the right person or section with the extension numbers!
Telephone numbers and email addresses of several DGCA officials are put online. However you can rest assured your emails will NEVER be replied to! Either that, or your sent mail will bounce, having sent it to a non-existant domain! try speaking to one of the officials on the phone. You will be lucky to last 90 seconds as you try to explain your situation to him. They simply are not interested in listening out. Everybody is eager to help you with the "right" extension number for you to dial to speak to the "right" person to get your work done.
I doubt if the situation is this bad anywhere else in the world, barring places like Afganistan and Somalia of course.
The DGCA are not only incompetant. they are also corrupt to the core. At the reception desk, where your phone calls go to, no one can speak proper English. They aren't even capable of connecting you through to the right person or section with the extension numbers!
Telephone numbers and email addresses of several DGCA officials are put online. However you can rest assured your emails will NEVER be replied to! Either that, or your sent mail will bounce, having sent it to a non-existant domain! try speaking to one of the officials on the phone. You will be lucky to last 90 seconds as you try to explain your situation to him. They simply are not interested in listening out. Everybody is eager to help you with the "right" extension number for you to dial to speak to the "right" person to get your work done.
I doubt if the situation is this bad anywhere else in the world, barring places like Afganistan and Somalia of course.
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Just heard that the seneca II has lost its CoA in India. Can someone verify this. In any case it will be 3 or 4 years before our friends in DGCA come to know about this.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Visited the licensing dept personally along with a friend who is planning to go back and do his recency.
The officer made it very clear all applications submitted before July will be endorsed with multi engine rating on a be76. Those submitted after that will not be given a multi endorsement.A circular will be issued within the DGCA communicating the same, then i asked why not update the website?
to which came the reply "yeh hamara kam nahi hai".
Trying to arrange an appointment with Mr. Bhushan to see what he has to say.
In short : Don't fly on the duchess.
The officer made it very clear all applications submitted before July will be endorsed with multi engine rating on a be76. Those submitted after that will not be given a multi endorsement.A circular will be issued within the DGCA communicating the same, then i asked why not update the website?
to which came the reply "yeh hamara kam nahi hai".
Trying to arrange an appointment with Mr. Bhushan to see what he has to say.
In short : Don't fly on the duchess.
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LieDetector - Whom did you talk to in person, the Director or the Dy. Director of FTL? Did he specifically mention about the month/date? That is very weird and it makes no sense at all. First the rumour was June 1st and now it is July?? When I met the Dy. Director last week, he didn't even mention anything about it and said - "everything should be fine".
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It was Mr.Sharma, he was in a rush and did not answer most of my queries.
Make no mistake some duchess licenses will still be issued to the relatives of these idiots and they will come up with absurd excuses.
Lets wait and see what Mr Bhushan has to say, meeting him next week.
Make no mistake some duchess licenses will still be issued to the relatives of these idiots and they will come up with absurd excuses.
Lets wait and see what Mr Bhushan has to say, meeting him next week.
Join Date: Jun 2011
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@flylikeaBE76 -
I submitted my NZ CPL for conversion roughly two weeks ago. At that point of time, the Dy Director of Licensing told me there wouldn't be a problem with the Duchess endorsement on the Indian CPL and they are working on getting the CoA of VT-EJR fixed. It could be one of those random statements he made - can't fall for it anyway. But he did ask me specifically "When did you submit your licence"? Now the other member, LieDetector, talks about DC Sharma mentioning July 1st as the deadline. So there is something about these dates the DGCA is playing with.
I submitted my NZ CPL for conversion roughly two weeks ago. At that point of time, the Dy Director of Licensing told me there wouldn't be a problem with the Duchess endorsement on the Indian CPL and they are working on getting the CoA of VT-EJR fixed. It could be one of those random statements he made - can't fall for it anyway. But he did ask me specifically "When did you submit your licence"? Now the other member, LieDetector, talks about DC Sharma mentioning July 1st as the deadline. So there is something about these dates the DGCA is playing with.
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Out of topic, but has anyone got an NOC from DGCA for doing Instrument Rating from abroad. I am asking this because for getting IR endorsed on your Indian CPL against a foreign CPL they require 40hrs of IT time(20 of which may be on a sim) and 5 hours of actual aircraft IR time within the last 6 months. There is no mention of any of this in the IR stand-alone application form(not the CPL conversion form) on DGCA website.
I take it that at the time of submission of papers they will still want to see proof of 40 hrs total IR time, 5 hrs in last 6 months etc.?
Is the NOC issued by DGCA for IR initial the same as that for IR renewal.
Many thanks.
BTW: Seneca II is down and out. Although the aircraft still has its current CoA, DGCA will not be renewing it for the year 2012 unless they fix the aircraft. It's anybody's guess if/when they will decide to have it fixed.
But then again, isn't the BE76 in the same situation. BE 76 is sick but clearly not dead. But for the DGCA it is not ok for the aircraft to be registered in India, it should also be airworthy for you to have it endorsed on your license.
It would have made perfect sense if they wanted to prevent you from flying an aircraft with an invalid CoA. But thats not the case. Either that or they should have revoked and cancelled the registration of all BE76 aircraft in India, having considered the aircraft too unsafe for conduct of any flight, which is clearly not the case.
You tell this to anyone involved aviation anywhere in the world and their jaws will drop just thinking about the absurdity of this bizarre rule.
I take it that at the time of submission of papers they will still want to see proof of 40 hrs total IR time, 5 hrs in last 6 months etc.?
Is the NOC issued by DGCA for IR initial the same as that for IR renewal.
Many thanks.
BTW: Seneca II is down and out. Although the aircraft still has its current CoA, DGCA will not be renewing it for the year 2012 unless they fix the aircraft. It's anybody's guess if/when they will decide to have it fixed.
But then again, isn't the BE76 in the same situation. BE 76 is sick but clearly not dead. But for the DGCA it is not ok for the aircraft to be registered in India, it should also be airworthy for you to have it endorsed on your license.
It would have made perfect sense if they wanted to prevent you from flying an aircraft with an invalid CoA. But thats not the case. Either that or they should have revoked and cancelled the registration of all BE76 aircraft in India, having considered the aircraft too unsafe for conduct of any flight, which is clearly not the case.
You tell this to anyone involved aviation anywhere in the world and their jaws will drop just thinking about the absurdity of this bizarre rule.
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@Rahul
Congrats
Do you know if the min 10 hours of flying required for a multi endorsement can be counted as PIC towards the 15 hours PIC requirement for recency ?
Congrats
Do you know if the min 10 hours of flying required for a multi endorsement can be counted as PIC towards the 15 hours PIC requirement for recency ?
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Hey rahul and cyrilroy,
Could you guys please tell what model of seneca is actually accepted? Rahul, going by your case, does it mean training in any model of PA34 will fetch us a multi endorsement?
Simplypilot.
Could you guys please tell what model of seneca is actually accepted? Rahul, going by your case, does it mean training in any model of PA34 will fetch us a multi endorsement?
Simplypilot.