Singapore Cargo Rumours (early 2010)

[azlee_19]

from my understanding, local term means, payscale same as local singaporeans, no housing allowance (as given in expat term), no education allowance. been trying to find out what the local FO salary start so far i found it is SGD 5600 at 4 years ago. anyone?

[Fubaliera]

Besides local terms, you must pay for your medical and hotel during the interview. Also a bond has to be paid in front for 35,000SGD

[DMN]

Any chance for pic upgrade of expat fos on local terms?

[Fubaliera]

Does anybody know what the career progession path for a a expat f/o is, upgrade times if any, transfer to mainline or silk etc etc

[overmars]

Ok for all you FO out there with queries for SIA Cargo:

SIA Cargo is NOT hiring FOs on expatriate terms. Only on local terms. The difference between expatriate and local:
1. Expatriates get a housing allowance to the tune of 3500-4000 a month.
2. Expatriates get children education up to pre-university (I believe). There is a cap, and I am not sure what it is.
3. Expatriates get a return ticket to their nominated home-base in the SIA network.

So, if you are planning to apply, please be ready to accept a local contract. Local contract means you are treated as equal as a local First Officer. A lot of talk about not being able to survive without a housing allowance. I am surviving without a housing allowance and no, I do not live with my parents (free lodging) because my parents are not in Singapore. It is do-able. But of course, if you plan to live along Orchard Road, drink your Dom Perignon while soaking in the sights of the city from your 20th storey apartment, then this contract is not for you.

With regards to upgrades, there are currently two guys who are going through command training. They are expatriates who have met the minimum criteria (hours, sectors, technical scores, non-technical scores). Before you guys start jumping up and down about how come expatriates can get selected for command training, the reason is because they were *promised* command in their contract when they joined years ago.

So, if you join on local terms, you work your way to meet the minimum requirement to get into the pool of candidates. Then, you get selected for the command training which will take about 8 months (so they say).

Other issues, transfer to SIA mainline or Silkair. Discussed before when there was an excess of FOs in Cargo and deficit of FOs in Silkair. Didn't work out because of politics and money-issue. So don't count on it happening. You join SIA Cargo, you're gonna spend the next few years in SIA Cargo.

Flying hours for First Officers is hovering around to 50 hours region. Depends on the season. Usually high during the pre-holiday season, and it drops down to about 10-30 hours in 3Q of the financial year.

All in all, good place to work. Friendly office staff, "flexible" rosters, commutable to KL/JB/Penang/thereabouts, competent Captains, good CRM, no bullying by instructors. There are definitely better options out there, but SIA Cargo is also definitely not the worst.

[DMN]

Good info, thanks for that. If one joins as a fo on local terms, approximate time to command? I understand there is lots of positioning. How often? Always in economy? As an expat on local terms, how does the pension scheme work? Do you have to be 65 to get any money?

Thanks

[overmars]

DMN: going off hand (haven't looked at the manuals, I mean, E-manuals) you need 330 PF sectors, 800 operating sectors, some hours requirements and, if I am not mistaken, seven years as an FO. At the rate that the local boys are doing, it will take about 10 years to reach that requirement.

Regarding positioning, it becomes more frequent as we have more disruptions and charter flights. Disruptions quite common because we are really tight on aircraft, so when one plane goes AOG, the whole scheduling goes bonkers, and we'll have guys paxing all over the world. Other than disruptions and charter flights, there will be the occasional paxing (especially within the USA, consider getting AA or Delta frequent flyer cards) between cities. Paxing on SIA flights, we're given confirmed Economy class, upgradable to First (not suite). Paxing on interline flights, it's economy class (FOs only).

wrt pension, Singapore has gone the CPF (Central Providence Fund) way and it only applies to Permanent Residents and citizens. More information can be found on www.cpf.gov.sg. Basically, company contributes an amount to your fund, together with your basic pay, and this amount can only be withdrawn when you hit... 62 or 65. Not so sure, they keep raising the age If you're not a PR or citizen, then no pension schemes.

[goma]

Expat FOS

I dont wish to sound negative but if your coming in as an expat FO on local terms unless things change(they wont)you will be in the RHS for 10yrs,you may be promised differently but you wont get upgrade,the two guys currently on upgrade were as mentioned before promised a Command at interview,they were also very experienced pilots before hand and had Commands on B737 etc etc before and they still had to wait 3-4yrs i think and the Command course is about 9 mths!!!!!!!.

Understandably the existing local FOs will also watch the system very carefully to make sure there is no jumping ahead of them,most of them are very new to Aviation and will have to wait a long time as they must do 800 sectors to get Command and at say 60 landings a year that will take over 10yrs.

I wish you well and we all have to work and its not easy but there is NO short cut here,good bunch of guys and a very fair training dept and of course the 747. Brgds CPT X

[jumbo747400]

Sing Cargo Info as of NOV 2010

Can anyone update me on the life at SQ cargo these days as an expat Captain?????....the rosters.....days off......pay rise????......hrs per month.????..thanks...

[subria023]

For expat FO, does 'Local term' mean a permanent job with local terms and conditions OR contract job with local terms and conditions? If it's a contract job, how long is it? And what is the monthly average pay for FO at the moment?

Any info. on this will be much appreciated.

[slayerdude]

you need 330 PF sectors, 800 operating sectors=If you have these requirements when you join or obtain the requirements within 5 years of joining plus you had prior experince then minimun time to qualify for command selection is 5 years

local terms= job for life, no contract period and you retire at 65 however you retire cashless due to absence of a retirement scheme ...... unless you screw up....

[subria023]

slayerdude, thanks a lot for the answer

[subria023]

Another question about flying in Singapore. For the expat FOs that join on local terms, is there any requirement for the ATPL? I do not see this requirement on the website. Is CPL acceptable for the application? And is it possible to join with a CPL and later obtain an ATPL in Singapore?

Thank you

[msian1147]

Greetings!

i just submitted my application to SQC for the FO position

just graduated from flight school with 200 hrs under my belt..do u guys think i could get a chance?

[Stallone]

they dun need any type-rating?

[thornycactus]

Helpful Answer

Originally Posted by subria023

Another question about flying in Singapore. For the expat FOs that join on local terms, is there any requirement for the ATPL? I do not see this requirement on the website. Is CPL acceptable for the application? And is it possible to join with a CPL and later obtain an ATPL in Singapore?

To answer your question,

Ans 1. Requirement for ATPL is set by CAAS. It is on CAAS website (pdf format).

Ans 2. Yes, you may get ATPL. To get an ATPL or not, is decided by the company not you.

By the way, read mercw123's post [right click here]! Last sentence.

Originally Posted by msian1147

Greetings! i just submitted my application to SQC for the FO position just graduated from flight school with 200 hrs under my belt..do u guys think i could get a chance?

To be frank and cruel. You will NOT have a chance!

Read Cruisercruiser's post [right click here]!

[msian1147]

I thought so haha

[goma]

Experience

Go fly a turboprop or short haul jet and get some experience then apply another time,too many guys feel thats below them but you will get sectors and valuable experience lacking in alot of guys who went straight onto long haul,good luck you will get there

[thornycactus]

Answering

Originally Posted by msian1147

I thought so haha

Malaysia government is protecting their citizens. You should have better opportunity in Malaysia than in Singapore. Huge aviation companies and better job prospect than in Singapore.

For instance, Singapore Youth Flying Club (SYFC). Those people in SYFC does not even accept ordinary Singaporeans (licensed holder) to be their flying instructor!

Let alone be in SIA. SIA does not even consider Singaporeans who are already licensed!

Originally Posted by geishaguy

With 200 hour, it's very hard to get into airlines nowadays even with a type rating unless you have cables and connections.

People usually have some sort of connection to get into airlines. It is "cable" connection!

Originally Posted by geishaguy

With 200 hour, it's very hard to get into airlines nowadays even with a type rating unless you have cables and connections. as the saying goes,not what you know but WHO you know.cheers

Yes! It is very very very true! It is not what you know, but who you know.

Originally Posted by goma

Go fly a turboprop or short haul jet and get some experience then apply another time,too many guys feel thats below them but you will get sectors and valuable experience lacking in alot of guys who went straight onto long haul,good luck you will get there

Talking is always easy!

Perhaps, you can kindly advise/recommmend those Singaporeans where to find such job opportunity?

[msian1147]

Appreciate your advice