Air Japan (AJX) B767
Hi all,
I would like to ask a few questions of those currently at AJX. I've read the most recent 20 or so pages of this thread so please forgive me if I have missed something. And no, I'm not just a tyre kicker.
1. Since the merger, is there a fair and equitable distribution of the "good" patterns vs the multi-sector back of the clock freighter ops?
2. Given the ongoing recruitment needs of AJX, is the internal upgrade process being impeded by the lack of crew? In other words, are guys not getting a start at command training because the company can't afford to take them offline as F/Os?
3. Does one get to submit their preference for days off for each coming month and is it a case of take what you are given or is there some success in getting what you ask for?
4. Previous posts indicate that the company pays correctly and on time and doesn't interfere with blocks of time off. Is that still the case?
5. Just to clarify: during initial training where does the limit on family visits come from? I assume that the cost of such airfares is at the pilot's expense anyway so in theory what is to stop a family visiting for less than 90 days then returning shortly after for another visit?
6. What is the typical (if there is such a thing) number of nights that one would be in Japan but not on a pattern and therefore paying for own accomm and expenses?
7. One final Q: has AJX shown any effort to meaningfully address fatigue concerns about rosters since recent posts?
Thanks in advance and thanks to those contributors to this thread who have obviously taken a lot of time to provide good info for those considering the move.(esp: TD, ishi59, and framemate)
I would like to ask a few questions of those currently at AJX. I've read the most recent 20 or so pages of this thread so please forgive me if I have missed something. And no, I'm not just a tyre kicker.
1. Since the merger, is there a fair and equitable distribution of the "good" patterns vs the multi-sector back of the clock freighter ops?
2. Given the ongoing recruitment needs of AJX, is the internal upgrade process being impeded by the lack of crew? In other words, are guys not getting a start at command training because the company can't afford to take them offline as F/Os?
3. Does one get to submit their preference for days off for each coming month and is it a case of take what you are given or is there some success in getting what you ask for?
4. Previous posts indicate that the company pays correctly and on time and doesn't interfere with blocks of time off. Is that still the case?
5. Just to clarify: during initial training where does the limit on family visits come from? I assume that the cost of such airfares is at the pilot's expense anyway so in theory what is to stop a family visiting for less than 90 days then returning shortly after for another visit?
6. What is the typical (if there is such a thing) number of nights that one would be in Japan but not on a pattern and therefore paying for own accomm and expenses?
7. One final Q: has AJX shown any effort to meaningfully address fatigue concerns about rosters since recent posts?
Thanks in advance and thanks to those contributors to this thread who have obviously taken a lot of time to provide good info for those considering the move.(esp: TD, ishi59, and framemate)
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1. Since the merger, is there a fair and equitable distribution of the "good" patterns vs the multi-sector back of the clock freighter ops? If you are an expat, then mostly. In my experience. There are a few who are getting higher value months with mostly pax flying but those are limited to a handful.
2. Given the ongoing recruitment needs of AJX, is the internal upgrade process being impeded by the lack of crew? In other words, are guys not getting a start at command training because the company can't afford to take them offline as F/Os? I haven't noticed that. It seems that they are still putting people in for upgrade training.
3. Does one get to submit their preference for days off for each coming month and is it a case of take what you are given or is there some success in getting what you ask for?I ask each month for the days off I want and that is what I get. Some months they may ask you to move the days forward or back a couple of days but that is rare.
4. Previous posts indicate that the company pays correctly and on time and doesn't interfere with blocks of time off. Is that still the case?That is still the case.
5. Just to clarify: during initial training where does the limit on family visits come from? I assume that the cost of such airfares is at the pilot's expense anyway so in theory what is to stop a family visiting for less than 90 days then returning shortly after for another visit?the company pays for your spouse to visit twice and kids to visit once. How long they stay is up to you. My wife and kids stayed for 2 weeks the first time and then my wife stayed 10 days the second time. She could have stayed longer but had to get home for the kids. Just up to you really.
6. What is the typical (if there is such a thing) number of nights that one would be in Japan but not on a pattern and therefore paying for own accomm and expenses?I have been averaging about 10 nights per month in Narita.
7. One final Q: has AJX shown any effort to meaningfully address fatigue concerns about rosters since recent posts?They have rearranged some pairings to try and mitigate it but I am not convinced that it will be successful.
2. Given the ongoing recruitment needs of AJX, is the internal upgrade process being impeded by the lack of crew? In other words, are guys not getting a start at command training because the company can't afford to take them offline as F/Os? I haven't noticed that. It seems that they are still putting people in for upgrade training.
3. Does one get to submit their preference for days off for each coming month and is it a case of take what you are given or is there some success in getting what you ask for?I ask each month for the days off I want and that is what I get. Some months they may ask you to move the days forward or back a couple of days but that is rare.
4. Previous posts indicate that the company pays correctly and on time and doesn't interfere with blocks of time off. Is that still the case?That is still the case.
5. Just to clarify: during initial training where does the limit on family visits come from? I assume that the cost of such airfares is at the pilot's expense anyway so in theory what is to stop a family visiting for less than 90 days then returning shortly after for another visit?the company pays for your spouse to visit twice and kids to visit once. How long they stay is up to you. My wife and kids stayed for 2 weeks the first time and then my wife stayed 10 days the second time. She could have stayed longer but had to get home for the kids. Just up to you really.
6. What is the typical (if there is such a thing) number of nights that one would be in Japan but not on a pattern and therefore paying for own accomm and expenses?I have been averaging about 10 nights per month in Narita.
7. One final Q: has AJX shown any effort to meaningfully address fatigue concerns about rosters since recent posts?They have rearranged some pairings to try and mitigate it but I am not convinced that it will be successful.
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I have never applied to any Japanese Airlines, although have the prerequisites.
I just cannot bare the thought of 6-9 months training.
I understand it is 6 months to obtain a JCAB licence. Is that correct.
Why doesnt Japan accept ICAO ATPLs and give a JCAB equivalent.
Whats so special about the JCAB licence.
Im really surprised so many Expat pilots would work in Japan.
Is there any use for the JCAB licence once you leave Japan, can you trade it in for an ICAO, FAA, JAR licence easily, or is it waisted ground study time?.
Just seems pointless spending 6-9 months training just to fly an aircraft Ive already flown as PIC for several thousand hours.
I just cannot bare the thought of 6-9 months training.
I understand it is 6 months to obtain a JCAB licence. Is that correct.
Why doesnt Japan accept ICAO ATPLs and give a JCAB equivalent.
Whats so special about the JCAB licence.
Im really surprised so many Expat pilots would work in Japan.
Is there any use for the JCAB licence once you leave Japan, can you trade it in for an ICAO, FAA, JAR licence easily, or is it waisted ground study time?.
Just seems pointless spending 6-9 months training just to fly an aircraft Ive already flown as PIC for several thousand hours.
Last edited by Soab; 17th Dec 2011 at 19:29.
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This year's prize for pointless posts 
I have never applied to any Japanese Airlines, although have the prerequisites. Good on ya
I just cannot bare the thought of 6-9 months training. I assume you mean 'bear'. There, there.
I understand it is 6 months to obtain a JCAB licence. Is that correct. It takes about 4 months if you're type rated to get the JCAB ATPL and then a couple more months of line training/OJT (call it what you will)
Why doesnt Japan accept ICAO ATPLs and give a JCAB equivalent. They do. They give you a JCAB ATPL after you have passed the ATPL check, which takes them about 4 months to train you for. Do you really think you could get a JCAB licence after 4 months without already holding an ATPL? Your JCAB licence is issued on the basis that you already hold an ICAO one.
Whats so special about the JCAB licence. It allows you to fly Japanese aircraft and you need that if you're going to fly in Japan.....which you're not.....which makes your post even more pointless
Im really surprised so many Expat pilots would work in Japan. That's nice for you, then.
Is there any use for the JCAB licence once you leave Japan, can you trade it in for an ICAO, FAA, JAR licence easily, or is it waisted ground study time? I assume you mean 'wasted'. Who knows; we all came here with an 'ICAO, FAA, JAR' licence, so why would we want to try and get something we already have. Best ask a Japanese pilot is he's ever converted his JCAB licence to one that is truly worthy..
Just seems pointless spending 6-9 months training just to fly an aircraft Ive already flown as PIC for several thousand hours. No, what's pointless is you telling us how great you are (because, of course, nobody here matches your unparalleled experience
), how you've never applied and your unwarranted opinion on something about which you know very little. Great, you're qualified but you're not going to apply because you consider the training too long. Thanks for letting us know (although we weren't really interested) and have a fantastic time in whatever differing venture you choose to embark upon.
I have never applied to any Japanese Airlines, although have the prerequisites. Good on ya
I just cannot bare the thought of 6-9 months training. I assume you mean 'bear'. There, there.
I understand it is 6 months to obtain a JCAB licence. Is that correct. It takes about 4 months if you're type rated to get the JCAB ATPL and then a couple more months of line training/OJT (call it what you will)
Why doesnt Japan accept ICAO ATPLs and give a JCAB equivalent. They do. They give you a JCAB ATPL after you have passed the ATPL check, which takes them about 4 months to train you for. Do you really think you could get a JCAB licence after 4 months without already holding an ATPL? Your JCAB licence is issued on the basis that you already hold an ICAO one.
Whats so special about the JCAB licence. It allows you to fly Japanese aircraft and you need that if you're going to fly in Japan.....which you're not.....which makes your post even more pointless
Im really surprised so many Expat pilots would work in Japan. That's nice for you, then.
Is there any use for the JCAB licence once you leave Japan, can you trade it in for an ICAO, FAA, JAR licence easily, or is it waisted ground study time? I assume you mean 'wasted'. Who knows; we all came here with an 'ICAO, FAA, JAR' licence, so why would we want to try and get something we already have. Best ask a Japanese pilot is he's ever converted his JCAB licence to one that is truly worthy..
Just seems pointless spending 6-9 months training just to fly an aircraft Ive already flown as PIC for several thousand hours. No, what's pointless is you telling us how great you are (because, of course, nobody here matches your unparalleled experience
), how you've never applied and your unwarranted opinion on something about which you know very little. Great, you're qualified but you're not going to apply because you consider the training too long. Thanks for letting us know (although we weren't really interested) and have a fantastic time in whatever differing venture you choose to embark upon.
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Fratemate
This year's prize for pointless posts
I have never applied to any Japanese Airlines, although have the prerequisites. Good on ya
I just cannot bare the thought of 6-9 months training. I assume you mean 'bear'. There, there.
I understand it is 6 months to obtain a JCAB licence. Is that correct. It takes about 4 months if you're type rated to get the JCAB ATPL and then a couple more months of line training/OJT (call it what you will)
Why doesnt Japan accept ICAO ATPLs and give a JCAB equivalent. They do. They give you a JCAB ATPL after you have passed the ATPL check, which takes them about 4 months to train you for. Do you really think you could get a JCAB licence after 4 months without already holding an ATPL? Your JCAB licence is issued on the basis that you already hold an ICAO one.
Whats so special about the JCAB licence. It allows you to fly Japanese aircraft and you need that if you're going to fly in Japan.....which you're not.....which makes your post even more pointless
Im really surprised so many Expat pilots would work in Japan. That's nice for you, then.
Is there any use for the JCAB licence once you leave Japan, can you trade it in for an ICAO, FAA, JAR licence easily, or is it waisted ground study time? I assume you mean 'wasted'. Who knows; we all came here with an 'ICAO, FAA, JAR' licence, so why would we want to try and get something we already have. Best ask a Japanese pilot is he's ever converted his JCAB licence to one that is truly worthy..
Just seems pointless spending 6-9 months training just to fly an aircraft Ive already flown as PIC for several thousand hours. No, what's pointless is you telling us how great you are (because, of course, nobody here matches your unparalleled experience), how you've never applied and your unwarranted opinion on something about which you know very little. Great, you're qualified but you're not going to apply because you consider the training too long. Thanks for letting us know (although we weren't really interested) and have a fantastic time in whatever differing venture you choose to embark upon.
This year's prize for pointless posts
I have never applied to any Japanese Airlines, although have the prerequisites. Good on ya
I just cannot bare the thought of 6-9 months training. I assume you mean 'bear'. There, there.
I understand it is 6 months to obtain a JCAB licence. Is that correct. It takes about 4 months if you're type rated to get the JCAB ATPL and then a couple more months of line training/OJT (call it what you will)
Why doesnt Japan accept ICAO ATPLs and give a JCAB equivalent. They do. They give you a JCAB ATPL after you have passed the ATPL check, which takes them about 4 months to train you for. Do you really think you could get a JCAB licence after 4 months without already holding an ATPL? Your JCAB licence is issued on the basis that you already hold an ICAO one.
Whats so special about the JCAB licence. It allows you to fly Japanese aircraft and you need that if you're going to fly in Japan.....which you're not.....which makes your post even more pointless
Im really surprised so many Expat pilots would work in Japan. That's nice for you, then.
Is there any use for the JCAB licence once you leave Japan, can you trade it in for an ICAO, FAA, JAR licence easily, or is it waisted ground study time? I assume you mean 'wasted'. Who knows; we all came here with an 'ICAO, FAA, JAR' licence, so why would we want to try and get something we already have. Best ask a Japanese pilot is he's ever converted his JCAB licence to one that is truly worthy..
Just seems pointless spending 6-9 months training just to fly an aircraft Ive already flown as PIC for several thousand hours. No, what's pointless is you telling us how great you are (because, of course, nobody here matches your unparalleled experience
), how you've never applied and your unwarranted opinion on something about which you know very little. Great, you're qualified but you're not going to apply because you consider the training too long. Thanks for letting us know (although we weren't really interested) and have a fantastic time in whatever differing venture you choose to embark upon.
The remark about obtaining a licence conversion from JCAB to others was valid. If I obtained a JCAB based on my ICAO, is it easier to obtain a JAA or FAA because of the JCAB. As it must be a better licence than the FAA, ICAO, and JAA.
My previous Asian job gave me a local 'validation' based on my ICAO.
[quote]
Fratemate
This year's prize for pointless posts
I have never applied to any Japanese Airlines, although have the prerequisites. Good on ya
This year's prize for pointless posts
I have never applied to any Japanese Airlines, although have the prerequisites. Good on ya
They are now advertising for pilots with no experience on type. That obviously means there are few (or no) pilots out there with the previously required experience on type, or pilots willing to work in Japan on their pay and conditions.
Or are there?, is it the months of training required to obtain a JCAB licence thats putting some pilots off applying.
Thus my post putting the question out there.
Im glad I didnt cause an accident flying in or out of Japan on my mere ICAO licence.
So I have achieved the most pointless PPRUNE post of the year award.
Im so proud.
PS: Sorry but I didnt spell check this post.
PPS: Am I the only lazy b@$&%d pilot here that considers 6 months training to fly an aircraft ive already flown, excessive and not worth considering.
My loss I know.
Last edited by Soab; 18th Dec 2011 at 12:14.
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soab you are entitled to think whatever you want, in fact you may even be right. The point is why would you come here and post these things in a tread in which people have all done the training you consider useless for the job you don't want??
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soab you are entitled to think whatever you want, in fact you may even be right. The point is why would you come here and post these things in a tread in which people have all done the training you consider useless for the job you don't want??
I dont believe they are all from pilots who have actually decided to do the JCAB licence to get a job in Japan.
Was the 4 months training to obtain the JCAB licence worthwhile.
Was it really necessary (Rather than validating internationally recognised ICAO, JAR licences) to operate safely for international flights flying out of Japan?
Last edited by Soab; 18th Dec 2011 at 11:49.
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Nice missing apostrophe to add a satirical slant to your slur 
18th Dec 2011 04:47
I don't claim to be an English Professor or the National Spelling Bee Champion.
Looks like somebody needs a hobby. Or maybe correcting people's grammatical errors on pprune is the hobby?
18th Dec 2011 04:47I don't claim to be an English Professor or the National Spelling Bee Champion.
Looks like somebody needs a hobby. Or maybe correcting people's grammatical errors on pprune is the hobby?
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Was it really necessary (Rather than validating internationally recognised ICAO, JAR licences) to operate safely for international flights flying out of Japan?
I guess you got all the answers now
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Dear Soab,
Things in aviation are simple:If you don't ""understand"" or you disagree with the ""Japanese way"" then don't apply to work with them... you should be happy to where you are now!
Things in aviation are simple:If you don't ""understand"" or you disagree with the ""Japanese way"" then don't apply to work with them... you should be happy to where you are now!
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Commuting from NZ...
(longtime lurker on this site, and new poster... Greatly appreciate all the info that you current employees have divulged here. Really helps the rest of us try to wrestle with the decision whether to jump or not from our current position... I suspect this job is better than what I'm dealing with at the moment... again: thanks !).
Is anyone commuting from AKL or South Island, NZ?
With ANA not going to AKL, would the 2,000$ travel allowance be your only option then (and not a confirmed C class)?
(a little off topic here...)
Have any commuters (foreign to the USA), managed to gain residency in the USA and commute from there? (i.e. proving that you have income, and don't need a work VISA - just residency). (Something that I'm trying to research at the moment).
Another one:
My wife is from Europe: is it possible to change commuting destinations periodically (in advance) if you need to go to another continent for your home leave?
Thanks in advance !
Is anyone commuting from AKL or South Island, NZ?
With ANA not going to AKL, would the 2,000$ travel allowance be your only option then (and not a confirmed C class)?
(a little off topic here...)
Have any commuters (foreign to the USA), managed to gain residency in the USA and commute from there? (i.e. proving that you have income, and don't need a work VISA - just residency). (Something that I'm trying to research at the moment).
Another one:
My wife is from Europe: is it possible to change commuting destinations periodically (in advance) if you need to go to another continent for your home leave?
Thanks in advance !
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Is anyone commuting from AKL or South Island, NZ?
With ANA not going to AKL, would the 2,000$ travel allowance be your only option then (and not a confirmed C class)? Commuting to NZ is not a snag and, surprisingly
they've even allowed a few Kiwis to join the AJX gang. When they organise your commuting they'll use ANA if they can. If ANA does not serve that destination, they'll use Star Alliance carriers. After that they'll use others they have lesser agreements with e.g. Qantas. So C Class commuting IS still available, even though ANA don't fly to AKL. I believe Air NZ offer a direct flight NRT-AKL but I also know that sometimes guys route via SYD. That may have something to do with direct flights not being available every day (I don't know the reason for sure) but, if that is the case then C Class is still available; you'd just do something like QF NRT-SYD and then either QF or Air NZ SYD-AKL. Long and short of it is C Class commuting is no problem to NZ.
(a little off topic here...)
Have any commuters (foreign to the USA), managed to gain residency in the USA and commute from there? (i.e. proving that you have income, and don't need a work VISA - just residency). (Something that I'm trying to research at the moment).Can't help on that one
Another one:
My wife is from Europe: is it possible to change commuting destinations periodically (in advance) if you need to go to another continent for your home leave? You can register 2 'home' addresses when you join. There are a few guys who have family on different continents and do exactly as you want to do i.e. travel to Europe during your days off, rather than NZ.I believe they were looking into how often you could change your 2nd address but, so far, I haven't heard anything about it and think you can change it quite often. For your case, though, it's not a problem having your NZ address and a European address registered for commuting purposes (and, yes, C Class does apply to both).
With ANA not going to AKL, would the 2,000$ travel allowance be your only option then (and not a confirmed C class)? Commuting to NZ is not a snag and, surprisingly
they've even allowed a few Kiwis to join the AJX gang. When they organise your commuting they'll use ANA if they can. If ANA does not serve that destination, they'll use Star Alliance carriers. After that they'll use others they have lesser agreements with e.g. Qantas. So C Class commuting IS still available, even though ANA don't fly to AKL. I believe Air NZ offer a direct flight NRT-AKL but I also know that sometimes guys route via SYD. That may have something to do with direct flights not being available every day (I don't know the reason for sure) but, if that is the case then C Class is still available; you'd just do something like QF NRT-SYD and then either QF or Air NZ SYD-AKL. Long and short of it is C Class commuting is no problem to NZ. (a little off topic here...)
Have any commuters (foreign to the USA), managed to gain residency in the USA and commute from there? (i.e. proving that you have income, and don't need a work VISA - just residency). (Something that I'm trying to research at the moment).Can't help on that one
Another one:
My wife is from Europe: is it possible to change commuting destinations periodically (in advance) if you need to go to another continent for your home leave? You can register 2 'home' addresses when you join. There are a few guys who have family on different continents and do exactly as you want to do i.e. travel to Europe during your days off, rather than NZ.I believe they were looking into how often you could change your 2nd address but, so far, I haven't heard anything about it and think you can change it quite often. For your case, though, it's not a problem having your NZ address and a European address registered for commuting purposes (and, yes, C Class does apply to both).
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They are now advertising for pilots with no experience on type. That obviously means there are few (or no) pilots out there with the previously required experience on type, or pilots willing to work in Japan on their pay and conditions.
Or are there?, is it the months of training required to obtain a JCAB licence thats putting some pilots off applying.
Thus my post putting the question out there. They have never required experience on type, so nothing has changed on that front and there is no ground-breaking news in the way the agents are advertising. There are plenty of people who don't want to work in Japan/away from their home country. Likewise, there are guys out there who don't think the pay and conditions are acceptable and, of course, there are those who think the training is too long. All of these are reasons for people not applying but none of us can categorically state exactly why they don't; that's just personal choice. What I can say is that a couple of years ago this job was one of the best going worldwide. Read back through this thread and you'll then see when things started to change for the worse and we put out the word that it is certainly not what it used to be and to consider carefully before applying. We all know the pilot world is small and word got around (as we told the Japanese and the agencies it would). I would suggest it is this 'word' that led to a reduction in applicants, rather than experience on type being required, which it wasn't. The good news is the drying up of applicants forced them into realising things were not good and certainly NOWHERE near where we were just 2 years ago and that they had to do something about it. They have dabbled around the edges and have made some positive changes. They addressed some of the issues but they do have a fair way to go yet. They are burying their heads in the sand regarding exchange rates and just hoping it all goes away; little realising everybody but the US dwellers are getting royally screwed by such a bad US$ rate and that this is affecting the decisions to apply. They are playing at reducing fatigue but they really have little comprehension of a proper scheduling system; not just the technical side of things but because, culturally, they think everything is okay and that we should dedicate our lives to The Company, as they do, little realising we don't give a crap about The Company and that it's just a job, not our reason for being. There are various other aspects of the job they need to improve but I'm not going to bore people further. Needless to say, this doesn't really affect you, Soab, because you're not coming here but there has been no change to their requirements of type experience and your stating that training is too long will not change anything, ever, in the way the Japanese conduct their business
Soab,
Mate, I'm confused by your agenda. You came to this thread, stated you were experienced on the 767 but you'd never apply to join a Japanese airline because the training was too long. You expressed surprise that any 'expats' would do the same and, effectively, told us, in your opinion, the Japanese have got it wrong with their licencing system. Why would you bother giving us the benefit of your perceived wisdom if it's not going to affect you? Have you got genuine questions or are you just here to 'sound off' and tell us what you think (even though you have no actual experience of what you're writing about and none of us actually asked)?
I will always try to answer any questions about AJX that I can and, in the spirit of giving a person the benefit of doubt, I've tried to answer your (semi) question/statement above but would ask that in the future you either ask genuine questions or don't bother posting. I'm sure those people considering AJX are interested in the views (good and bad) of those who have been through the Japanese system, whereas the unwarranted rambling of someone who hasn't and has stated he never will, are just not required i.e. this is not Soab's soapbox and your uninformed opinion will add nothing to the thread, nor help those who come here looking for information, rather than blather.
Or are there?, is it the months of training required to obtain a JCAB licence thats putting some pilots off applying.
Thus my post putting the question out there. They have never required experience on type, so nothing has changed on that front and there is no ground-breaking news in the way the agents are advertising. There are plenty of people who don't want to work in Japan/away from their home country. Likewise, there are guys out there who don't think the pay and conditions are acceptable and, of course, there are those who think the training is too long. All of these are reasons for people not applying but none of us can categorically state exactly why they don't; that's just personal choice. What I can say is that a couple of years ago this job was one of the best going worldwide. Read back through this thread and you'll then see when things started to change for the worse and we put out the word that it is certainly not what it used to be and to consider carefully before applying. We all know the pilot world is small and word got around (as we told the Japanese and the agencies it would). I would suggest it is this 'word' that led to a reduction in applicants, rather than experience on type being required, which it wasn't. The good news is the drying up of applicants forced them into realising things were not good and certainly NOWHERE near where we were just 2 years ago and that they had to do something about it. They have dabbled around the edges and have made some positive changes. They addressed some of the issues but they do have a fair way to go yet. They are burying their heads in the sand regarding exchange rates and just hoping it all goes away; little realising everybody but the US dwellers are getting royally screwed by such a bad US$ rate and that this is affecting the decisions to apply. They are playing at reducing fatigue but they really have little comprehension of a proper scheduling system; not just the technical side of things but because, culturally, they think everything is okay and that we should dedicate our lives to The Company, as they do, little realising we don't give a crap about The Company and that it's just a job, not our reason for being. There are various other aspects of the job they need to improve but I'm not going to bore people further. Needless to say, this doesn't really affect you, Soab, because you're not coming here but there has been no change to their requirements of type experience and your stating that training is too long will not change anything, ever, in the way the Japanese conduct their business
Soab,
Mate, I'm confused by your agenda. You came to this thread, stated you were experienced on the 767 but you'd never apply to join a Japanese airline because the training was too long. You expressed surprise that any 'expats' would do the same and, effectively, told us, in your opinion, the Japanese have got it wrong with their licencing system. Why would you bother giving us the benefit of your perceived wisdom if it's not going to affect you? Have you got genuine questions or are you just here to 'sound off' and tell us what you think (even though you have no actual experience of what you're writing about and none of us actually asked)?
I will always try to answer any questions about AJX that I can and, in the spirit of giving a person the benefit of doubt, I've tried to answer your (semi) question/statement above but would ask that in the future you either ask genuine questions or don't bother posting. I'm sure those people considering AJX are interested in the views (good and bad) of those who have been through the Japanese system, whereas the unwarranted rambling of someone who hasn't and has stated he never will, are just not required i.e. this is not Soab's soapbox and your uninformed opinion will add nothing to the thread, nor help those who come here looking for information, rather than blather.
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Fratemate
You are of course right; I didn’t mean to offend anyone who has gone through the lengthy JCAB licence study. Just wanted to get a feel of who was out there that decided not to apply for a Japanese contract because it takes 6 months to be checked to line. (Even if you have flown the aircraft type before).
Perhaps I was waiting for responses from those that had done it to say 'yeah its well worth the effort, great airline, treated very well, pay and time off great, glad I did it', rather than the complaints Ive read about exchange rates, pay, fatigue etc, or others agreeing its over the top spending 4 months to convert to a JCAB licence that is worthless anywhere but Japan. Does it take 4 months to convert an ICAO or JAA licence to an FAA.
It’s an anonymous forum, so don’t see the point in blowing my own trumpet here.
Agree, it appears it was the wrong thread to ask, as there are either those that have done it (and they appear to be offended by my questions and bite back) and wannabes asking questions.
Maybe good for those wanting to get on better equipment, but they are not seeking any already experienced on type.
Enjoy Japan Fratemate, but don’t let it stress you out.
You are of course right; I didn’t mean to offend anyone who has gone through the lengthy JCAB licence study. Just wanted to get a feel of who was out there that decided not to apply for a Japanese contract because it takes 6 months to be checked to line. (Even if you have flown the aircraft type before).
Perhaps I was waiting for responses from those that had done it to say 'yeah its well worth the effort, great airline, treated very well, pay and time off great, glad I did it', rather than the complaints Ive read about exchange rates, pay, fatigue etc, or others agreeing its over the top spending 4 months to convert to a JCAB licence that is worthless anywhere but Japan. Does it take 4 months to convert an ICAO or JAA licence to an FAA.
It’s an anonymous forum, so don’t see the point in blowing my own trumpet here.
Agree, it appears it was the wrong thread to ask, as there are either those that have done it (and they appear to be offended by my questions and bite back) and wannabes asking questions.
Maybe good for those wanting to get on better equipment, but they are not seeking any already experienced on type.
Enjoy Japan Fratemate, but don’t let it stress you out.
Last edited by Soab; 19th Dec 2011 at 21:16.
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The training here is long and repetitive, it is the relentless pursuit of the perfectly executed visual approach and the center hydraulic system failure, In the other hand they put you up in a nice furnished apartment in a trendy part of town, they give you a lot of time off while paying you your entire salary (not some reduced training pay like some other contracts) a lot of the guys bring their family for most of the training duration and I had a great paid vacation with my family, Japan is far better than any place in the ME or the rest of Asia, it is safe, clean and social services that are that of a first world country, making a decision to take a job or not based on the training length is as silly as making it based only on what airplane you will fly.
The reason why you are hearing us complain lately is because we are going through a rough patch right now with the integration of the cargo and passenger flying and the rostering leaves a lot to be desired lately, the economical situation has placed the USD in a position that is a detriment to the guys that live everywhere but the US. We are complaining because this job was simply awesome before the merger and now it is more like some of the other jobs that are available out there, but all in all, including the current instability in the roster, the current USD market value, the training period, I will like to know what is batter out there? Some experts have come along talking about the T&C's here, you tell me where then?
1) As ex pats we work at a first world country and Japan is simply a fantastic place, it is clean, safe and liberal, you are not going to get flogged because you are holding hands with your wife or spit on by a local while you are site seeing. Why don't you tell us about that fantastic place you are based out off.
2) Pay; The situation of the USD a side because there is no way we can control that. Name the better pay out there, or better yet, how much you made this year?
3) Respect of the contract that you signed! We have no issues on that regard, I challenge you to name a single other contract available out there where you are able to make that statement, a single one.
4) Pay on time and correct, I know that there has been some issues with mistakes with the CREW guys that since has been resolved, but no problems with the rest of the contract companies. I will be willing to bet that most people have a lot of headaches on this regard.
5) This is the best commuting contract available by far anywhere, 14 days in a row, the ability to choose your days off, business class commute to any destination you choose.
6) You hear us complaining because that is the pilots nature and we want things to be the way they were before the merger but at the end of the day we work in an organization that has been named amongst the best 10 airlines in the world consistently year after year, we fly well maintained A/C's and we deal with very little issues in terms of MEL's and fuel. And although they may come off a little rough around the edges some times, the vast majority of guys here are great to fly with, most of the time we fly with other ex pats and we have very little issues with animosity here with the locals, that is another thing that is a great problem in other places and makes life on the line very difficult for many ex pats, we have no such issues here.
Why don't you tell us about that wonderful gig of yours, I would like to know what total bliss on this business feels like; Tell us your salary, tell us about your base, about your days off, your commuting conditions, the conditions of those 767's you claim to have thousands of hours on.
The reason why you are hearing us complain lately is because we are going through a rough patch right now with the integration of the cargo and passenger flying and the rostering leaves a lot to be desired lately, the economical situation has placed the USD in a position that is a detriment to the guys that live everywhere but the US. We are complaining because this job was simply awesome before the merger and now it is more like some of the other jobs that are available out there, but all in all, including the current instability in the roster, the current USD market value, the training period, I will like to know what is batter out there? Some experts have come along talking about the T&C's here, you tell me where then?
1) As ex pats we work at a first world country and Japan is simply a fantastic place, it is clean, safe and liberal, you are not going to get flogged because you are holding hands with your wife or spit on by a local while you are site seeing. Why don't you tell us about that fantastic place you are based out off.
2) Pay; The situation of the USD a side because there is no way we can control that. Name the better pay out there, or better yet, how much you made this year?
3) Respect of the contract that you signed! We have no issues on that regard, I challenge you to name a single other contract available out there where you are able to make that statement, a single one.
4) Pay on time and correct, I know that there has been some issues with mistakes with the CREW guys that since has been resolved, but no problems with the rest of the contract companies. I will be willing to bet that most people have a lot of headaches on this regard.
5) This is the best commuting contract available by far anywhere, 14 days in a row, the ability to choose your days off, business class commute to any destination you choose.
6) You hear us complaining because that is the pilots nature and we want things to be the way they were before the merger but at the end of the day we work in an organization that has been named amongst the best 10 airlines in the world consistently year after year, we fly well maintained A/C's and we deal with very little issues in terms of MEL's and fuel. And although they may come off a little rough around the edges some times, the vast majority of guys here are great to fly with, most of the time we fly with other ex pats and we have very little issues with animosity here with the locals, that is another thing that is a great problem in other places and makes life on the line very difficult for many ex pats, we have no such issues here.
Why don't you tell us about that wonderful gig of yours, I would like to know what total bliss on this business feels like; Tell us your salary, tell us about your base, about your days off, your commuting conditions, the conditions of those 767's you claim to have thousands of hours on.
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Gents, I regularly log on and see what useful piece of information you guys have put on here for the benefit of people you'll probably never meet - and I really appreciate it. Thanks TD, Fratemate, Ishi59 and all contributors.
But since it is almost Christmas, which even the Japanese vaguely understand, how about we cut Soab some slack and leave this dead horse where it lies.
Separately, does anyone know if the changes to commuting conditions have also brought in any changes to benefits for expats living locally in Japan?
If you live locally will you end up with a pretty poor roster or is everyone the same?
But since it is almost Christmas, which even the Japanese vaguely understand, how about we cut Soab some slack and leave this dead horse where it lies.
Separately, does anyone know if the changes to commuting conditions have also brought in any changes to benefits for expats living locally in Japan?
If you live locally will you end up with a pretty poor roster or is everyone the same?