Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?

[Sonic69]

Have you exhausted the possibility of SQ and SFC yet?

Are you prepared to take 2 years to complete it at MFA? They are quite inefficient.

[SiLLyMonKeY]

Hi Sonic.
Yup. and I'm not keen to borrow and spend so much more for SFC.

I did hear that they were inefficient (in the past). But is it for a fact that now they are still just as inefficient and that they still drag their CPL/ATPL courses on for 2 years?

I'm also thinking of dropping by to visit the school just after CNY.

[ungauged]

Wow... I'm a newbie here. I read through everything here but failed to find a conclusion on whether a self-sponsored fATPL is the right thing to do. I've already taken the first step but may somehow end up unemployed.

I've just signed up at a Malaysian flying academy for my fATPL and will be going in February for my training. I was just wondering how many self-sponsored pilots actually made it to SQ, but ended up finding very negative remarks in this forum. I have no intention (because I failed the SQ interview) of flying for SQ. But I have a strong desire to fly and since 2 of my cousin's (SQ and MAS, none self-sponsored) are pilots, my parents have encouraged me despite the amazing costs. What are the chances of smaller airlines like Airasia of Tiger airways hiring me once I've completed my fATPL?

I share the same sentiments as most of the experienced people on this forum as my cousin says that NO major airline will hire you once you've finished your fATPL. Hence the preparation to fly elsewhere besides our small little red dot or even MAS. I know it will be a tough tough road ahead but is there even a chance that any airline would hire me upon my completion? I've heard that Airasia has a shortage of pilots at the moment and have firm orders on 175 planes which have yet to arrive. My cousin has told me that the probability of Airasia hiring is high. True?

I hope to recieve some constuctive advise.

[SiLLyMonKeY]

hi ungauged. when did you sign up for MFA?
i enquired at the end of last year and they were full till June.

[Sonic69]

@sillymonkey,
DOn't let me discourage you, I'm just stating info that I have. My source is a current Instructor in one of the M'sian academies. He states that they all drag their students 2 years or more due to aircraft and instructor shortage.
How much would you save by training in M'sia? Not much if you consider that you will still pay SGD100k for the course, add transport, full board, time (at least 1 extra year compared to SFC) etc.
IMHO, you are better off training with SFC if you have the option. If SFC has already rejected your application, then this discussion is irrelevant.

@ungauge,
Since you have already decided to pursue your aviation dreams, just go for it full steam ahead. You have zero probability of being a professional pilot if you don't have the CPL/fATPL in Singapore and Malaysia. My opinion is Tiger and Jetstar will at least consider you after you have completed your training. Air Asia too. Other than that, if you are willing to do GA flying or get an Instructor Rating, there will be employment opportunities available there too.

[ungauged]

@sillymonkey
I couldn't wait for MFA and was advised to join another Malaysian flying school. Advise from my cousin being that, "the license that you'll get from any Malaysian Flying school will still be issued from the same place. The importance is you do well."

@sonic69
Sorry for being "kaypo". If they have insufficient aircrafts for training and decide to extent the duration, do they charge extra? Isn't the normal duration for fATPL course 18 months (that is if you don't fail)?

[Sonic69]

THey don't charge extra if it drags on. It is based on the number of hours you fly plus the amount of groundschool you have to do.
But the Opportunity Cost is the extra months you have to pay for lodging, food, transport to and fro for holidays etc. Plus, time wasting (coz you're full time and sitting on the ground with no income).
The stated course duration is 65 weeks. About 14 months.

[SiLLyMonKeY]

@ungauged
are you a singapore PR/malaysian citizen?

@sonic69
i don't think i'm that easily discouraged. even now, there are people around me encouraging me to pursue other careers instead, for they fear i will not get a good pilot job after paying through my nose for the licence. but i still hold some hope for the future of choosing this route full of sacrifices.

thanks for your comments and advice though. i've been following this thread and i appreciate your efforts in being as unbiased and as constructive as possible.

you have brought up a good point about opportunity cost. if the difference is indeed 10 months then it is significant. i will do some cost analysis and see if sfc is a good option for me. i don't know if their office is open on saturday; otherwise i will ring them up for course fees on monday. if anybody here knows the latest accurate course fee pls update us. thanks. does the fee include everything like accomodation and the flights to australia?

either way i'm also going to pop by mfa just after CNY to check them out. hopefully get hold of some students and instructors to find out more from them. probably post some of my findings here for the benefit of other interested singaporeans.

oh btw, i note that CAAS 'recognizes' malaysian licence as being more in compliance with our local standards and hence 'more convertible'. is it true vice versa as well? does malaysia similarly treat the singapore licence? i note that SFC does not publish any instructor licence course on their webbie, and hence wonder if there is a possible path for an SFC graduate to go to say MFA, to go through the AFI course to become a flight instructor there.

[ungauged]

@sillymonkey
I'm a Singapore citizen. To your point where a Malaysian license is preferred in our region, I agree but correct me if I'm wrong.

Chances of me, a self-sponsored wannabe, chances are I'll be flying for a Malaysian based airline right? Most likely Airasia. A conversion course would be required if you take your license in Australia and decide to work for AirAsia? (I hope someone can clarify this for me) And besides the expenses in Australia would be more costly compared to Malaysia. Just my 2 cents on my decision to take it in Malaysia.

[rotatejunkie]

Hello fellow airmen and airmen-wannabes!
This is an informative place to share and gather information, albeit gather with a pinch of salt...

Im from Singapore, and currently on an integrated ATPL course in the boondocks (spell check?) in northwest Melbourne Australia.... and hope to earn the fATPL end of this year...

There's nothing wrong with being self-sponsored, but DO have a plan to get to where you want to go...
I guess its also all about the industry cycle. Well its speculation, but hopefully this down cycle of economic proportions ceases, or brightens end of this year.
So those of us who are Self-Sponsored and undergoing training---

KEEP YOUR HEAD IN THE BOOKS AND PERSEVERE!

Theres no better feeling other than surfing the thermals, and having your heart pumping and feeling ALL alive for the moment on short finals!!! A desk bound job won't even come close! No matter how much it pays! Trust me!

[Sonic69]

The Msian and Sgporean CPL/fATPL are '1 for 1' convertible because of a shared heritage from way back and also because both countries take the UK CAA ATPL papers (when even the UK doesn't anymore - just like our GCE O Levels).

I believe it is possible to have the Sg CPL and then pursue Instructor Rating in a Msian academy (should you wish to). Getting a CASA (Aus) CPL means you have to jump over an extra hurdle to convert or validate that licence to be able to work for a Msian or Sg carrier. Ask any of our friends here who are currently in Oz, like rotatejunkie and prodi9y, for more info.

SFC will tell you their course starts from SGD150k. This includes full board. Does not include airfare to and from Oz for the Jandakot phase.

[nosher]

SQ

Hi all..I have a question.1st off,sorry if its been asked before!! Im working for Ryanair as an FO with approx 1500 Hrs on Type.Of course I dont have the right hours at the moment,but could anyone tell me if SQ have a direct FO scheme & what sort of hours should I be looking at..maybe when we get past all of these bad times !!

[Sonic69]

hi Nosher, there are SQ threads where you will get more accurate info but from what I know, SQ very rarely take DEFOs. They only do DEC. Their FOs are adequately supplied by their own cadet program.

[sgcloudchaser]

if anyone has any new update of self-sponsoring at SFC, kindly post here or private message me. like the cost (and where can I get up to 150k loan), opportunity cost, after training employment, etc... wish to find out more from you guys who have more info.

[ken0311]

hiya,

well i am currently a self-sponsored cadet at sfc. forked out ~140k for this course. i believe sfc are taking in self-sponsored cadets. there are currenlty 11 cadets here that have taken this option. we are all at various stages of training. i'm about to finish here in perth and i am hoping that a contract would come soon. current economic crisis isn't helping much in terms of job opportunities.

self-sponsored cadets it is a new thing for sfc and chances are quite good if you apply through sfc. give it a shot if you have the money.

those of you that have any nagging questions, just pst me, i'll try my best to answer them.

good luck!

[SiLLyMonKeY]

singapore001:
when exactly did you and your friends get through the SQ interview? was there quite a wait between your application submission and the time you were called up for SQ interview? just curious.

anyway, i had the impression that SQ would take in a ATPL holder compared with an ab initio until i thought of this...

when the management interviews a qualified and an ab initio, they would be hiring both guys for a different purpose. they would hire the qualified guy to meet 'immediate demands' whereas hiring an ab initio would be for projected pilot demands 2 years down the road. an ATPL holder applying for SQ would thus actually be competing with those SQ sponsored cadets who have just passed out of the jandakot phase at that same point of time, who are also due to start their learjet phase. and from the SQ perspective, the SQ sponsored cadets are almost guaranteed the learjet phase (since they've paid for their training blah blah). the self sponsored ATPL holder would have to get whatever extra vacancies for the learjet phase that SQ wants to give out.

i'm not saying it is impossible but i can't help but think that it is albeit not as easy as when taking the example of comparison between a ATPL holder and an ab initio.

i would very much like to be disputed here because i myself am keen to self-sponsor...

[sgrookie]

singapore001,

Not really sure what you mean down here, but if a SQ sponsored cadet can't pass their ATPL papers, he won't even get to go to JDK, let alone fly the Lear. So, SQ sponsored cadets are guaranteed a place in the L45 program after they pass their JDK phase. How soon though, is another story.

SiLLyMonKeY,

When you're referring to ATPL holders, I assume you're talking about self-sponsored pilots without any jet hours? If its direct entry FOs you're talking about, they can generally skip the L45 phase. However, if the company puts you in a L45 straight, it means he's still a cadet and so is no different from any ab-initio pilots. The only thing he'll skip is the ATPL and the JDK phase which would save him about 1.5 years.

[SiLLyMonKeY]

yes i was referring to self-sponsored pilots without jet hours.

and hence i do note that they would go into the scheme of things like a cadet pilot. the only difference is they get into the middle of the course.

my thoughts are that a self-sponsored ATPL without jet hours applicant would be competing with cadets out of jandakot who are guaranteed to take up the spaces in the LJ phase.

[cruisercruiser]

SFC

Hi Wannabes!

Long time no post! Allow me to put aside all other debates in this forum and talk a little about my SFC self sponsored interview, for the benefit of those who want to apply for SFC. After saving for 5 years and taking a bank loan (in the process of!) I'm finally going to embark on my flying training with SFC as a self-sponsored cadet soon.

I applied at the end of 2008 and did not get a reply from SFC until 2 weeks ago. I had to call them once a week for updates of my application until the lady over the other phone told me to wait for her call. She emailed me last week telling me to go down for the interview 2 days later. From my other self sponsored friends' experience, the call up is very random and waiting period ranged from 1 week to 5 months or so. So it is good to send in your application early and follow up on it.

The interview went smoothly for me. It was more like a chat session with the CFI and CGI. I was even told by the CGI that there’s no point in asking me technical questions due to my engineering background and good O/A level grades. Very briefly, I was asked to tell them about myself, why I want to be a pilot, why with an established engineering career would I want to get into flying, why am I still single (??) not planning to get married, whether my other half agreeable, how do you intend to fund your training.

They made a few points very clear and asked if I am willing to accept the reality:

1) I will be treated exactly like an SQ cadet and will be required to what they have to do even when I’m self sponsored. E.g. do ops duty, cut the grass, visit old folks home etc. They have their reasons for putting us through all these. Basically be “treated like a kid”. No special treatment.

2) Be prepared to work hard. A lot of studying to do in just 6 months.

3) They will chop me if I don’t perform up to standard, be it flying or in studies or in terms of attitude etc.

4) I must prepare enough funds to cover repeat exams or sorties. I was told to prepare minimum $150 k, even when the course fees states $132K.

5) I must be aware that although I am training with SFC, in the event I do well, SFC can only recommend me to SIA for an interview. If SIA do not accept me, SIA cargo and silkair will not too, because they have the same selection process. There is no guarantee of any kind at all.

I understood and am prepared for all the above. I got an email 3 hours after my interview asking me to choose a date I can start. It is good that I cleared my initial CAAS class 1 with ST medical ($395) before I went for the interview. It helped speed up the process. As soon as I get the bank loan sorted, I am ready to start.

For those who need to take a loan, RHB allows an educational loan up to $100K or up to 6 times the combined income of your guarantors, whichever is lower, at an interest rate of 4.8 percent per annum. From my friend’s experience the loan will take about a week to be approved.

I’ve decided to train with SFC despite the huge cost after having researched this route for years and having spoken to friends, pilots and airline recruitment captains. I don’t want my post to spark off yet another heated debate, so please read this post for its facts!

By the way, I've recently went to Senai airport to check out the PPL course Elite is offering and was told that malaysia DCA is limiting the foreigner intake to 90%. I was told that I'll be put in the waiting list and the back log is at least 9 months! I guess with the latest crash, the waiting period will be longer. Just for info.

Cheers!

cruiser

[Sonic69]

Congrats!

Hi cruisercruiser,
Congrats on embarking on the journey to fulfill your dream. Wishing you all the best!
Btw, do you have any flying hours at all? If not, you're the first self sponsored I know of.