SIA CARGO
Join Date: Feb 2004
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So then in your opinion, how is a pilot supposed to accrue experience on type so that he or she may, in time, find the top job? Wish for it? "You just don't get it do you Scott"? Think outside the box a bit, just maybe some joined and accepted a bond etc in order further their career...
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Another ill-conceived post from another supposed, self-appointed expert
I.T. is a roaming observer on PPRuNe.
Nothing wrong with that, in essence, but if one reviews those threads he's contributed to, a pattern emerges.
Draw your own conclusions on what that pattern means, but if you're reading this thread in order to gauge the temperature and depth of the water here, be mindful of the usefulness, or not, of his contribution.
As a finale, the idea that SQC pilots are complaining in order to try and change the contract for our own profit has been well and truly ironed-out.
No-one is attempting such a change, though many are furious at Management's cheating by default.
That much is patently obvious, at least to those not otherwise harboring malicious, malignant leanings toward professional aviators.
(Sigh)
My 'lizard brain' has overwhelmed me, yet again!
Nothing wrong with that, in essence, but if one reviews those threads he's contributed to, a pattern emerges.
Draw your own conclusions on what that pattern means, but if you're reading this thread in order to gauge the temperature and depth of the water here, be mindful of the usefulness, or not, of his contribution.
As a finale, the idea that SQC pilots are complaining in order to try and change the contract for our own profit has been well and truly ironed-out.
No-one is attempting such a change, though many are furious at Management's cheating by default.
That much is patently obvious, at least to those not otherwise harboring malicious, malignant leanings toward professional aviators.
(Sigh)
My 'lizard brain' has overwhelmed me, yet again!
Last edited by 4PW's; 14th Feb 2007 at 02:41.
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Two things...
1.
Quote: "Fortunes change in aviation and companies have been using this ( base plus flight hours formula) type of contract for about 30 years to give them a breather during tough times."
These are most certainly not tough times. Another record profit looms large. Non sequitur, anyone?
2.
Sorry about the lack of a response to those inquiring after inside information on what's happening with recruiting. I am not sure, but if we're 100+ heavy this year, in most months, for both seats, it's a fair bet that has something to do with the slow-down in recruiting.
Quote: "Fortunes change in aviation and companies have been using this ( base plus flight hours formula) type of contract for about 30 years to give them a breather during tough times."
These are most certainly not tough times. Another record profit looms large. Non sequitur, anyone?
2.
Sorry about the lack of a response to those inquiring after inside information on what's happening with recruiting. I am not sure, but if we're 100+ heavy this year, in most months, for both seats, it's a fair bet that has something to do with the slow-down in recruiting.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Firstly, my heartfelt condolences to those who have the $50K hanging over their head. I was unaware that this was the case.
I hope that you do get something for your money. Most companies are tightening up this way to stop people running off with endorsements.
Voting with your feet was advice given to me years ago.I have done this in the past and would do it again ,if I felt that it was the only recourse.
To 4PW,
I find the fact that you have to look up peoples past posts to find some retort very entertaining.Certainly says something about you to me.
Personally I couldn't get a flying F--k what you or others say about me or my posts. My "roaming" posts are my opinion and I am entitled to it.
If you don't want people "roaming in" start a private forum and do as you wish.
To Portquarter,
What is a Falcon 109?
I hope that you do get something for your money. Most companies are tightening up this way to stop people running off with endorsements.
Voting with your feet was advice given to me years ago.I have done this in the past and would do it again ,if I felt that it was the only recourse.
To 4PW,
I find the fact that you have to look up peoples past posts to find some retort very entertaining.Certainly says something about you to me.
Personally I couldn't get a flying F--k what you or others say about me or my posts. My "roaming" posts are my opinion and I am entitled to it.
If you don't want people "roaming in" start a private forum and do as you wish.
To Portquarter,
What is a Falcon 109?
I thought the Falcon 109 was supposed to be a fixed wing....errr...froggy.. twin-jet....NO??!! 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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You couldn't give a flying so and so, huh?
So why'd you post?
Sorry my search wobbled your bead. I was checking why you'd post what you did. Surely you must know that sort of thing is important in understanding 'the opposition'.
We're serious about what's going on here. I guess you are as serious about things in your life that impact on you, too.
So let's just leave our little spat back there a few posts, in the sandpit if you like. I'll put my spade down, and you stop kicking sand.
Good luck to you, IT.
No hard feelings from my side.
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aceairman
Drunk Pilots!!Hey check this out, guys.....great for a "cool off" period......I think??!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQLp3Z7jUm8
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sympathies
Hello Gents
My sympathies with those who are unhappy with some realities not being close to the advertisements they responded to.
The crewing situation at SQC and SIA is a result of a combination of the A380 delay, attempts to self crew SQC totally, unproductive COPs, poor planning of crew numbers, and yet more hiring when the current (for the last 6 months) situation seems not to justify additional new joiners.
Mainline guys have also had many roster disruptions too, and reduced pay packets as a result.
No doubt the management is happy to hear the bickering between SQC and SIA crew, as alienation precludes solidarity or united strength.
My advice depends on your circumstances. Some recent joiners came puely to get a B744 type, and use SQC as a stepping stone....in which case don't grumble too much if your intentions were purely to get a rating.....move on to whatever your plan envisaged after getting some type experience.
For gentlemen who joined with longer term aspirations, I understand things are not so easy, and your intentions when joining were far more honourable, and you are deserving of a better deal, or at least something closer to what was offered at interview.
Do not forget that over the years, mainline guys have had numerous discrepencies and erosion of terms and conditions, so your experiences are not new to SQC. Due to the weakness of unions, the company will always have the upper hand, and you should realise this, and try to temper your anger with a realisation of what the company CAN do in a Singapore context.
Additionally, the outstanding profits of the airline group as a whole will never really affect its cost efficiency drive. There really is a rabid greed for profit, and the company never seems to be happy to have a year or two of consolidation and stable profit. They are always chasing more and more profit.
I envisage the hourly flying of SQC crew will rise gradually over the next few months, though i emphacise GRADUAL. Mainline guys will fly cargo flights less often. Also SQC rostering and COP's are being reviewed more carefully. To those of you with a long term view.....I would not say stay for sure...more I would suggest that you should be VERY SURE that a move somewhere else is definitely going to be better in many areas.......usual advice i suppose.
On one more note......to all SQC pilots, please realise that before the slow partitioning of SQC from SIA which started about 3 years ago......the now so-called "mainline pilots" flew both cargo and pax flights regularly. Many SQC pilots view mainline guys with anger when they fly a good cargo COP........but remember the aggressive hiring of SQC pilots has taken most of the cargo COP's from the "mainline" guys, eroded their pay, and in many other airlines it would be the long term mainline guys that might have the reason to be aggrieved, as the SQC guys are doing flying that was always previously done by them. Just something to think about. Don't be angry with them......the situation is the result of the company's actions.
Finally..........B744 Local......whoever you might be......your comments are a disgrace, and you purely shame yourself by saying such things.
Happy flying.
My sympathies with those who are unhappy with some realities not being close to the advertisements they responded to.
The crewing situation at SQC and SIA is a result of a combination of the A380 delay, attempts to self crew SQC totally, unproductive COPs, poor planning of crew numbers, and yet more hiring when the current (for the last 6 months) situation seems not to justify additional new joiners.
Mainline guys have also had many roster disruptions too, and reduced pay packets as a result.
No doubt the management is happy to hear the bickering between SQC and SIA crew, as alienation precludes solidarity or united strength.
My advice depends on your circumstances. Some recent joiners came puely to get a B744 type, and use SQC as a stepping stone....in which case don't grumble too much if your intentions were purely to get a rating.....move on to whatever your plan envisaged after getting some type experience.
For gentlemen who joined with longer term aspirations, I understand things are not so easy, and your intentions when joining were far more honourable, and you are deserving of a better deal, or at least something closer to what was offered at interview.
Do not forget that over the years, mainline guys have had numerous discrepencies and erosion of terms and conditions, so your experiences are not new to SQC. Due to the weakness of unions, the company will always have the upper hand, and you should realise this, and try to temper your anger with a realisation of what the company CAN do in a Singapore context.
Additionally, the outstanding profits of the airline group as a whole will never really affect its cost efficiency drive. There really is a rabid greed for profit, and the company never seems to be happy to have a year or two of consolidation and stable profit. They are always chasing more and more profit.
I envisage the hourly flying of SQC crew will rise gradually over the next few months, though i emphacise GRADUAL. Mainline guys will fly cargo flights less often. Also SQC rostering and COP's are being reviewed more carefully. To those of you with a long term view.....I would not say stay for sure...more I would suggest that you should be VERY SURE that a move somewhere else is definitely going to be better in many areas.......usual advice i suppose.
On one more note......to all SQC pilots, please realise that before the slow partitioning of SQC from SIA which started about 3 years ago......the now so-called "mainline pilots" flew both cargo and pax flights regularly. Many SQC pilots view mainline guys with anger when they fly a good cargo COP........but remember the aggressive hiring of SQC pilots has taken most of the cargo COP's from the "mainline" guys, eroded their pay, and in many other airlines it would be the long term mainline guys that might have the reason to be aggrieved, as the SQC guys are doing flying that was always previously done by them. Just something to think about. Don't be angry with them......the situation is the result of the company's actions.
Finally..........B744 Local......whoever you might be......your comments are a disgrace, and you purely shame yourself by saying such things.
Happy flying.
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Sir,
Thank you for taking the time to lay it out, straight up.
All of what you've said is, to me at least, very true.
I've been pondering for some time how to structure my next post on this thread such that it breaks new ground and does not go over the same old tired tracks that are and have been carved into this digital 'fireside chat'.
It's pleasing to read someone has been mulling over the same sort of concepts, and to see it in print is very helpful. We're not that bad off, which is not to say there are no genuine grievances.
Yes, the mainline guys have much to complain about, when you put it that way. I have been a bit selfish in not considering or at least recognizing their plight.
If the latest inside-oil on SIACs coming months is half right, the mainline chaps are in for a rough ride.
They're good guys, by and large. Only a few are difficult, and if you get to the bottom of why they're apparently difficult, I concede it'd be for the same reasons I'm difficult...unrealized expectations!
So thank you, 'in the slot', for clearing the air on that score and allowing me to add what I've wanted to add for some time.
In this new year, this time of renewal, I'll take this opportunity to not only wind my neck in a little and consider the plight of others, more than my own, but to wish my colleagues at SQ, be they Mainline or Cargo, expat or local, the very best of fortune's bounty.
Hard work, industriousness, honesty, perseverance, commitment, sincerity, blah blah blah, not to mention humility.
Sound ideals on which to base one's plan for the New Year.
(Rambling prose ends)
Thank you for taking the time to lay it out, straight up.
All of what you've said is, to me at least, very true.
I've been pondering for some time how to structure my next post on this thread such that it breaks new ground and does not go over the same old tired tracks that are and have been carved into this digital 'fireside chat'.
It's pleasing to read someone has been mulling over the same sort of concepts, and to see it in print is very helpful. We're not that bad off, which is not to say there are no genuine grievances.
Yes, the mainline guys have much to complain about, when you put it that way. I have been a bit selfish in not considering or at least recognizing their plight.
If the latest inside-oil on SIACs coming months is half right, the mainline chaps are in for a rough ride.
They're good guys, by and large. Only a few are difficult, and if you get to the bottom of why they're apparently difficult, I concede it'd be for the same reasons I'm difficult...unrealized expectations!
So thank you, 'in the slot', for clearing the air on that score and allowing me to add what I've wanted to add for some time.
In this new year, this time of renewal, I'll take this opportunity to not only wind my neck in a little and consider the plight of others, more than my own, but to wish my colleagues at SQ, be they Mainline or Cargo, expat or local, the very best of fortune's bounty.
Hard work, industriousness, honesty, perseverance, commitment, sincerity, blah blah blah, not to mention humility.
Sound ideals on which to base one's plan for the New Year.
(Rambling prose ends)
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Yes, it would seem we are all feeling the pinch a little.
If the latest TCC on the subject is accurate then things should improve for all over the course of 2007, but I am not putting my CV back in the filing cabinet just yet.
Maybe a guaranteed minimum monthly flying allowance of, say, $5k is the way to go. It would certainly give the company an incentive to fly us and stop us complaining (well, me anyway) if we didn't fly much.
But I guess the odds of that happening are between slim and nil and, alas, Slim is out of town!
If the latest TCC on the subject is accurate then things should improve for all over the course of 2007, but I am not putting my CV back in the filing cabinet just yet.
Maybe a guaranteed minimum monthly flying allowance of, say, $5k is the way to go. It would certainly give the company an incentive to fly us and stop us complaining (well, me anyway) if we didn't fly much.
But I guess the odds of that happening are between slim and nil and, alas, Slim is out of town!
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More erosion of t & c's
I am also one of the unfortunates who was recruited from the promises of the 2004 Flight International advertisment. The next problem i can see on the horizon is the CEO's decree that no crew shall be allowed to position in the new First Class on the A380. Having checked my contract wording very carefully, it very clearly states that I am entitled to First if space available. I can, however, envisage a situation when I am expected to position SIN/LHR, Business is full, First has space available yet I am assigned an economy seat! Options? Few really, one could refuse to get on but all that does is give someone else your COP and you get 10 days of standby.
One could possible see a breach of contract and be relieved of one's bond but then again, pork might fly.
One could possible see a breach of contract and be relieved of one's bond but then again, pork might fly.
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Better Times Ahead????????????
A recent communique from the DCP-CARGO appears to be interesting.
as per his email he claims 85% of the cargo COP are for the CARGO LADS. the other 15% for the mainline rats.
he also claims that from the start of the winter schedule all the COP will me manned by the CARGO LADS.
lets wait and see!!!!!!!!!!!
as per his email he claims 85% of the cargo COP are for the CARGO LADS. the other 15% for the mainline rats.
he also claims that from the start of the winter schedule all the COP will me manned by the CARGO LADS.
lets wait and see!!!!!!!!!!!
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Would you MIND? If he put it out on paper, then at the very least try to be positive, if you can't be positive...
BTW, it's too bad that all this hard work by YOUR colleagues (on YOUR behalf, I would like to add) merits this kind of response? Words used to fail me, but having spent quite a while in this industry, I am no longer surprised by the few who are unable to see the forest for the trees...Sorry for you mate.
BTW, it's too bad that all this hard work by YOUR colleagues (on YOUR behalf, I would like to add) merits this kind of response? Words used to fail me, but having spent quite a while in this industry, I am no longer surprised by the few who are unable to see the forest for the trees...Sorry for you mate.
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to left coaster
i did not mean to be dis-respectful in anyway, i only implied that it was "interesting". the DCP is doing good work under the circumstances and his effort is greatly appreciated.
the famous chinese curse "may you live in interesting times" has deep meaning.
so hang in there fella, hold your horses!
the famous chinese curse "may you live in interesting times" has deep meaning.
so hang in there fella, hold your horses!
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The DCP is, indeed, doing his best under difficult circumstances and is fully deserving of our support and respect. But please don't forget the guys on the STG who have put in an awful lot of their own free time to help bring about the forthcoming (honest Guv!) improvements to our COP's, lifestyles and salary.
I know at least one Captain who would have left by now were it not for their impressive efforts and he's called "Bananas." Thanks guys; Good job.
I know at least one Captain who would have left by now were it not for their impressive efforts and he's called "Bananas." Thanks guys; Good job.
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aceairman
4PW...why don't ya try.....ehmmmm...."f...in nuts" instead....?
(Could be easily avalable in a place known, I believe, as "G..lang"......
I reckon the DCP's doin a grand job...most likely almost single-handedly, so grant him due credit and the fullest support....and all your suggestions as well. He's a pretty pro-active and a very receptive g entleman.... NO??!!
(Could be easily avalable in a place known, I believe, as "G..lang"......
I reckon the DCP's doin a grand job...most likely almost single-handedly, so grant him due credit and the fullest support....and all your suggestions as well. He's a pretty pro-active and a very receptive g entleman.... NO??!!
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Sq Cargo
hi lads,
any rumour on the projected bonus, cockpit chats say 5+ 1 any feedback?
also the recent FLIGHT NOTICES mention that they are still reviewing the increase for housing allowances how long have they got to keep looking at them?
do we have to move in to HDB(government housing)?
keep em rolling..............
any rumour on the projected bonus, cockpit chats say 5+ 1 any feedback?
also the recent FLIGHT NOTICES mention that they are still reviewing the increase for housing allowances how long have they got to keep looking at them?
do we have to move in to HDB(government housing)?
keep em rolling..............
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CJ,
"what SIA/SQC has to offer is the country.it is safe,clean with a system, this is what many were attracted to and now have the real picture. singapore as a whole is about money. this is all they have to live for,as for us we were in for an adventure. speak to many of the local young blokes they are just in for the money."
change in point of view lately ?
"what SIA/SQC has to offer is the country.it is safe,clean with a system, this is what many were attracted to and now have the real picture. singapore as a whole is about money. this is all they have to live for,as for us we were in for an adventure. speak to many of the local young blokes they are just in for the money."
change in point of view lately ?