Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme
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Picard.....
and yet within the next 2 or 3 pages someone will ask the same mundane and ignorant questions. "What engines to CX have on their aircraft" (because I'm too "passionate" to bother to find facts elsewhere)...."I can't update my profile...".....and so on.
In all honesty if you'd read my previous posts here and the other threads then you'd know exactly my background, as well as my angst against CX which I make no apologies for. But the main point you ask is why did I dig so deep into CX's corporate policies. As for educating the world about them, well when so many here bring to the table their "passion" yet utter ignorance to the real world let alone facts of the job I wish to pass on some truths. Where I've been incorrect I've always been happy for the input. Would you allow a colleague to fly an aircraft knowing full well a serious CAT A MEL item affecting the safe & correct operation of the flight existed & you know full well they are too lazy and incompetent to check the flight deck log before the flight? It's not only about the pilot(s) but the operation they are in and contribute toward. The more people who know the truths and facts about CX and this scam then the better.
So, why dig so deep? Because if you don't then I believe you to be an idiot. Sorry, but I mean that. So many kids want to throw up to 45 years of their life starting from this iCadet program failing to comprehend the exact nature, terms, conditions, city, costs, long term future and management history of the job...... And then I use that word "comprehend" because all too often we're met with those not wanting the information or denying bare faced facts and realities. And, as with all jobs I've ever had I can't stand pilots who would sell their soul for the job, get it, and then once checked to line join the brigade of hating the job they asked for, studied for and then received. Any person blindly signing any contract without knowing the full and complete facts of what it means, what it does and does not encompass as well as the company behind is just that - a fool. And what's the saying? "A fool and his money are easily parted"????
Based on this thread most iCadet desperadoes do more research and take more consideration into their next xBox console than they do about this CEP and what it represents to CX and the industry as a whole.
your novel throughout the 150+ posts in this thread.
I want to know more about your background, what exactly did they do to you that prompted you to dig so deep into their corporate "policies" and educate the world about them? were you one of the 49?
So, why dig so deep? Because if you don't then I believe you to be an idiot. Sorry, but I mean that. So many kids want to throw up to 45 years of their life starting from this iCadet program failing to comprehend the exact nature, terms, conditions, city, costs, long term future and management history of the job...... And then I use that word "comprehend" because all too often we're met with those not wanting the information or denying bare faced facts and realities. And, as with all jobs I've ever had I can't stand pilots who would sell their soul for the job, get it, and then once checked to line join the brigade of hating the job they asked for, studied for and then received. Any person blindly signing any contract without knowing the full and complete facts of what it means, what it does and does not encompass as well as the company behind is just that - a fool. And what's the saying? "A fool and his money are easily parted"????
Based on this thread most iCadet desperadoes do more research and take more consideration into their next xBox console than they do about this CEP and what it represents to CX and the industry as a whole.
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 15th Jan 2012 at 09:39.
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@ChinaBeached I know an ex CHIEF pilot of Cathay and have talked to him about pay, conditions etc. He said that living in HK and flying with Cathay was the best experience of his life, and it was hard to leave (he left due to personal reasons).
If you think the conditions in HK are bad, then try living in Australia! Everything is so much more expensive in Aus than anywhere else in the world, yet people live in good conditions on far worse pay than is quoted by CX.
If you think the conditions in HK are bad, then try living in Australia! Everything is so much more expensive in Aus than anywhere else in the world, yet people live in good conditions on far worse pay than is quoted by CX.
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truss20
For him as a Chief pilot he would have been at CX for a while, therefore he would most likely have been on the old A-scale contract with a housing allowance + other benefits... for you you would be on the "c-scale" which is a whole different game...
CB: Sorry if this has been bought up before: Do you mind me asking what you do now after you rejected the new contract? Judging by what you post you are now in a far better position than if you took the new CX contract, the holiday home you were talking about a few pages back sounds rather nice!
CB: Sorry if this has been bought up before: Do you mind me asking what you do now after you rejected the new contract? Judging by what you post you are now in a far better position than if you took the new CX contract, the holiday home you were talking about a few pages back sounds rather nice!
Last edited by average-punter; 15th Jan 2012 at 20:23.
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What he said.
Ex chief pilot. He was on A scale for all of his career. His provident fund alone would be multi million AU$. He would have made multiple millions of AU$ during his time at CX. He probably has multiple luxury properties all over the world either empty as holiday homes or rented out providing a nice income for retirement.
You on the other hand, Truss20, will spend your WHOLE career paying off an 800sqft place in a not too fancy location in HKG, maybe you will be able to upgrade to a 1000-1500 sqft place by about age 45, extending the mortgage for another 10 or so years.
His Hong Kong and your Hong Kong, if you join CX, are different worlds. Why do people find this concept so hard to understand. The contract you guys will join on is NOT sufficient for an expat to have a descent life and family in HKG.
Ex chief pilot. He was on A scale for all of his career. His provident fund alone would be multi million AU$. He would have made multiple millions of AU$ during his time at CX. He probably has multiple luxury properties all over the world either empty as holiday homes or rented out providing a nice income for retirement.
You on the other hand, Truss20, will spend your WHOLE career paying off an 800sqft place in a not too fancy location in HKG, maybe you will be able to upgrade to a 1000-1500 sqft place by about age 45, extending the mortgage for another 10 or so years.
His Hong Kong and your Hong Kong, if you join CX, are different worlds. Why do people find this concept so hard to understand. The contract you guys will join on is NOT sufficient for an expat to have a descent life and family in HKG.
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Pilot Referral
An Ex Chief Pilot was mentioned....I wonder if anyone knows if having an 'official' recommendation from a CX pilot on one's application makes any difference given the large number of applicants? I understand during the DEFO days, having a recommendation was huge to getting on top of the list, but is is the same with the cadet programme?
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Then and Now
Then: A scale
Now: C scale
Then: Defined benefit Provident Fund
Now: (Percentage) defined contribution MPF
Then: A DFO who knew who you were and protected you from the clerks
Now: Who?
Then: Recruitment department staffed by CX
Now: Contracted company in CX City
Then: Valuable recommendation by current CX pilot
Now: Who are you and who do you work for?
Then: Medium or heavy jet command, combat fighter experience, minimum 5000 hours
Now: Thank G*D we have another applicant who can recognize an aircraft.
Then: Retire at 55 comfortable
Now: Age 65 or work till you die, choose one
Then: 76 hours per month, significant overtime pay
Now: 84 hours, work stacking
Then: 6 weeks pay plus 1 week non credit leave
Now: 2 weeks for first 4 years, then 6 weeks allocated, often denied, deferred
Then: First class FOC, unlimited FOC travel, affordable
Now: Cattle class at rates exceeding bucket shop prices, ZED fares, Bob N
Then: Simulator sandwiches, real coffee, First Class crew meals
Now: Wait till we've finished and chicken, beef, pasta and sorry no sandwiches.
Then: Voluntarily come to work early in case of Typhoon signal
Now: Mandated practices in case of T3
Then: Call us when you're healthy
Now: Sickness management (sic) program
Then: Lamma Channel Visual
Now: Pussies
Then: IGS 13
Now: You want me to do a WHAT?
And on, and on, and on. Please guys - don't be shy.
One more time: THIS ISN'T THE CATHAY YOU THINK IT IS.
Now: C scale
Then: Defined benefit Provident Fund
Now: (Percentage) defined contribution MPF
Then: A DFO who knew who you were and protected you from the clerks
Now: Who?
Then: Recruitment department staffed by CX
Now: Contracted company in CX City
Then: Valuable recommendation by current CX pilot
Now: Who are you and who do you work for?
Then: Medium or heavy jet command, combat fighter experience, minimum 5000 hours
Now: Thank G*D we have another applicant who can recognize an aircraft.
Then: Retire at 55 comfortable
Now: Age 65 or work till you die, choose one
Then: 76 hours per month, significant overtime pay
Now: 84 hours, work stacking
Then: 6 weeks pay plus 1 week non credit leave
Now: 2 weeks for first 4 years, then 6 weeks allocated, often denied, deferred
Then: First class FOC, unlimited FOC travel, affordable
Now: Cattle class at rates exceeding bucket shop prices, ZED fares, Bob N
Then: Simulator sandwiches, real coffee, First Class crew meals
Now: Wait till we've finished and chicken, beef, pasta and sorry no sandwiches.
Then: Voluntarily come to work early in case of Typhoon signal
Now: Mandated practices in case of T3
Then: Call us when you're healthy
Now: Sickness management (sic) program
Then: Lamma Channel Visual
Now: Pussies
Then: IGS 13
Now: You want me to do a WHAT?
And on, and on, and on. Please guys - don't be shy.
One more time: THIS ISN'T THE CATHAY YOU THINK IT IS.
Last edited by Cpt. Underpants; 15th Jan 2012 at 23:43. Reason: Editorial
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Truss.... As per the other replies to your post - you are failing to consider the bigger picture of the CX then and the CX now. What's more, why is it no so obvious??!!
I bet the ex CP loved his time at CX. Why wouldn't he??
He was not on C-Scale.
He came to CX with experience.
He was paid as per the market rate for (expat) widebody airline pilots, and as per his role.
He received a housing allowance in line with the what he deserved.
He was able to save, look after a family (I assume) and educate his kids, retire comfortably.
On top of all that, he was the boss.
We could go on but Capt Undies put it so much better.
Now, which part of his career (anywhere!!) applies to the 2012 iCadet offering????
Ask him if he "enjoyed" the 49ers episode? Ask him if he "enjoyed" seeing his pay cut numerous times while those cutting it received bonuses? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the phone calls, letters and threats of "sign or be fired / never to be promoted"? Ask him if what he thinks of his bosses lying in court? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the instructors at AD having their signed contracts torn up?
Odd when a bigger picture is unveiled.....?????
I bet the ex CP loved his time at CX. Why wouldn't he??
He was not on C-Scale.
He came to CX with experience.
He was paid as per the market rate for (expat) widebody airline pilots, and as per his role.
He received a housing allowance in line with the what he deserved.
He was able to save, look after a family (I assume) and educate his kids, retire comfortably.
On top of all that, he was the boss.
We could go on but Capt Undies put it so much better.
Now, which part of his career (anywhere!!) applies to the 2012 iCadet offering????
Ask him if he "enjoyed" the 49ers episode? Ask him if he "enjoyed" seeing his pay cut numerous times while those cutting it received bonuses? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the phone calls, letters and threats of "sign or be fired / never to be promoted"? Ask him if what he thinks of his bosses lying in court? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the instructors at AD having their signed contracts torn up?
Odd when a bigger picture is unveiled.....?????
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Ask him if he "enjoyed" the 49ers episode? Ask him if he "enjoyed" seeing his pay cut numerous times while those cutting it received bonuses? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the phone calls, letters and threats of "sign or be fired / never to be promoted"? Ask him if what he thinks of his bosses lying in court? Ask him if he "enjoyed" the instructors at AD having their signed contracts torn up?
-would have been one of the * chamber,
-not had to sign or be fired,
-been one of them lying in court
-maybe got a command in 2 years
-received lots of bonuses
-started the 49ers episode.
Maybe.............
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@ChinaBeached
I will ask him.
I have other info from him about pay, conditions etc. that DO apply to all.
You can be promoted from SO in 18 months.
The max time as SO is 4 years, of which your pay goes up by 50K annually, which starts at 422k a year. A lot compared to what most people in their early 20s earn.
You will be captain by the 12th year of employment, earning a minimum 1.2m annually.
You will be senior captain by the 14th year of employment. Payment increases until you earn 1.8m after 15 years.
You earn superannuation of 15.5%.
Education support for children in HK.
Medical insurance.
Share in company profits.
etc.
Plus, the money you earn from CX isn't your only source of revenue. Share dividends can earn tens of thousands of dollars a year if you invest correctly.
Don't be intimidated by what these clowns are going on about. I have talked with people who are on the board of CX! They resort to outrageous claims that "oh CX lie to us" etc. That's not a legitimate point in an argument.
I am going to apply for that Cadetship, and I hope like hell that I get it as it is a great opportunity that I don't want to slip by, and neither should anyone of you reading this post.
I will ask him.
I have other info from him about pay, conditions etc. that DO apply to all.
You can be promoted from SO in 18 months.
The max time as SO is 4 years, of which your pay goes up by 50K annually, which starts at 422k a year. A lot compared to what most people in their early 20s earn.
You will be captain by the 12th year of employment, earning a minimum 1.2m annually.
You will be senior captain by the 14th year of employment. Payment increases until you earn 1.8m after 15 years.
You earn superannuation of 15.5%.
Education support for children in HK.
Medical insurance.
Share in company profits.
etc.
Plus, the money you earn from CX isn't your only source of revenue. Share dividends can earn tens of thousands of dollars a year if you invest correctly.
Don't be intimidated by what these clowns are going on about. I have talked with people who are on the board of CX! They resort to outrageous claims that "oh CX lie to us" etc. That's not a legitimate point in an argument.
I am going to apply for that Cadetship, and I hope like hell that I get it as it is a great opportunity that I don't want to slip by, and neither should anyone of you reading this post.
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@ChinaBeached and all you Cathay cynics,
The maximum time you can spend as an SO is 4 years, of which your pay increases by 50k annually, starting at 422k.
The minimum time you can spend as an SO is 18 months.
The maximum time it can take to become a captain at Cathay is 12 years.
2 years later, you become a senior captain.
Your pay increases from 1.2m when you start as captain to 1.8m 15 years later.
You also get:
15.5% Superannuation contribution.
Medical insurance.
Education allowances for children studying in HK.
A share in company profits etc.
422k is a lot of money, especially for a person who will be in their early 20's, and it only increases from there.
This information comes from the chief pilot, who had a seat on the board.
In all honesty, you can be cynical of the program all you want. But in the end, those that do the program are going to benefit so much from it as it is FREE training (as opposed to spending 100k on training individually), you get to live in an awesome city and fly for one of the worlds most respected airlines.
I know which side I will be taking.
The maximum time you can spend as an SO is 4 years, of which your pay increases by 50k annually, starting at 422k.
The minimum time you can spend as an SO is 18 months.
The maximum time it can take to become a captain at Cathay is 12 years.
2 years later, you become a senior captain.
Your pay increases from 1.2m when you start as captain to 1.8m 15 years later.
You also get:
15.5% Superannuation contribution.
Medical insurance.
Education allowances for children studying in HK.
A share in company profits etc.
422k is a lot of money, especially for a person who will be in their early 20's, and it only increases from there.
This information comes from the chief pilot, who had a seat on the board.
In all honesty, you can be cynical of the program all you want. But in the end, those that do the program are going to benefit so much from it as it is FREE training (as opposed to spending 100k on training individually), you get to live in an awesome city and fly for one of the worlds most respected airlines.
I know which side I will be taking.
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I am not saying that for a young guy with no family this is not something you should go for. It depends on your circumstances as to weather or not it is suitable.
Now back to your remarks.
We are NOT cathay cynics. A lot of us are currently employed pilots with CX.
18 months as an SO, 7 years ago maybe for a month before it went out again. In my opinion and many others CURRENTLY working for CX it will not be lower than 4 years till JFO again.
12 Years max till captain!!! Where are you getting this from. Suggest you check out the following thread.
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...-f-o-life.html
Probably everyone posting is a CURRENT CX pilot in above thread. Is it mentioned anywhere that 12 years is the max that is expected.
You honestly sound like you are trying to wind people up. I hope so as to be that ill informed, about what will be at a minimum the next 10 years of your life till you can move on with transferable experience, is pretty amazing.
If you are for real I am amazed at your ignorance. By all means go for the scheme if it is suitable to you, it is a good deal for a new 0 time guy. But for gods sake know what you are getting into and not just listen to one ex pilot from the era when everyone wanted to be a pilot with CX.
Now back to your remarks.
We are NOT cathay cynics. A lot of us are currently employed pilots with CX.
18 months as an SO, 7 years ago maybe for a month before it went out again. In my opinion and many others CURRENTLY working for CX it will not be lower than 4 years till JFO again.
12 Years max till captain!!! Where are you getting this from. Suggest you check out the following thread.
http://www.pprune.org/fragrant-harbo...-f-o-life.html
Probably everyone posting is a CURRENT CX pilot in above thread. Is it mentioned anywhere that 12 years is the max that is expected.
You honestly sound like you are trying to wind people up. I hope so as to be that ill informed, about what will be at a minimum the next 10 years of your life till you can move on with transferable experience, is pretty amazing.
If you are for real I am amazed at your ignorance. By all means go for the scheme if it is suitable to you, it is a good deal for a new 0 time guy. But for gods sake know what you are getting into and not just listen to one ex pilot from the era when everyone wanted to be a pilot with CX.
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Truss, this job is for you. It suits a naive and ignorant company stooge so you fit the bill.
Better still, best you remind them in the interview what your best mate the former CP told you to say. The irony here is that this ex CP whose picture I'm sure keep on your bedroom ceiling and another beside the kleenex told you the company has never lied.....? Too funny because he just lied to you!
18 months as SO and then you start swimming in money you say.....???
What an idiot. Usually I do my best to tell others not to apply by use of cold undeniable facts, but the likes of you are suited to it all too well to bother.
You may be at FL410 but all the piloting world will still look down on you.
Better still, best you remind them in the interview what your best mate the former CP told you to say. The irony here is that this ex CP whose picture I'm sure keep on your bedroom ceiling and another beside the kleenex told you the company has never lied.....? Too funny because he just lied to you!
18 months as SO and then you start swimming in money you say.....???
What an idiot. Usually I do my best to tell others not to apply by use of cold undeniable facts, but the likes of you are suited to it all too well to bother.You may be at FL410 but all the piloting world will still look down on you.
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After reading all these comments - I think the cadet program is still the way to go for myself (that is... if I get it)
- I mean, my family is in Hong Kong to begin with...
- I have 0 actual flight time other than the 15 or so fam hours I've had through Air Cadets.
- Planning to move my sorry ass back to HK anyways... since living alone in Vancouver even with my above average wage right now is next to impossible.
- Canadian Airlines: oh don't even get me started
- The military route: glasses = immediate nono, unless your glasses are only needed for reading. Oh and how many fixed wing aircraft does the RCAF have? yeah...
- The only thing that really worries me right now is that 1.1million HKD training bond...
- I mean, my family is in Hong Kong to begin with...
- I have 0 actual flight time other than the 15 or so fam hours I've had through Air Cadets.
- Planning to move my sorry ass back to HK anyways... since living alone in Vancouver even with my above average wage right now is next to impossible.
- Canadian Airlines: oh don't even get me started
- The military route: glasses = immediate nono, unless your glasses are only needed for reading. Oh and how many fixed wing aircraft does the RCAF have? yeah...
- The only thing that really worries me right now is that 1.1million HKD training bond...
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truss20...
If you think the conditions in HK are bad, then try living in Australia! Everything is so much more expensive in Aus than anywhere else in the world, yet people live in good conditions on far worse pay than is quoted by CX
If you think the conditions in HK are bad, then try living in Australia! Everything is so much more expensive in Aus than anywhere else in the world, yet people live in good conditions on far worse pay than is quoted by CX
truss20 is management trying to turn this whole crappy package offering into a positive!! It is a complete windup!!
You are a fool truss20. Pull your head in!!
Truss, company stooges and starry-eyed kids with SJS, as a twenty-plus year, current Cathay Pacific pilot, I can only urge you to engrave Capt. Underpants' post #3736 in your collective memories.
Given the current rate of expansion, the maximum possible training rate, future slot availability at Hong Kong etc, the time to command given to you by your high-powered friend is at best an incorrect assumption by an out-of-touch retiree, or at worst, an outright lie.
Given the current rate of expansion, the maximum possible training rate, future slot availability at Hong Kong etc, the time to command given to you by your high-powered friend is at best an incorrect assumption by an out-of-touch retiree, or at worst, an outright lie.