Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme
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Surely they can't change the 0 hours to 250 hours overnight and make it apply to everyone who has applied previously?
Join Date: Oct 2007
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More Bad news
Just a few things..
Being employed as "skilled" labour IE >250hrs by law you are entitled to a full Expat allowance (Which they are currently not paying due a new discrimination law Expats vs Locals which would work if you were employed with 0 hrs)
1) Now that you are classed as "skilled labour" that is not found in HK ie >250hrs there is no discrimination and are be entitled to full expat allowances!! and is not effected by this law as I understand.
So here starts a major stumbling point going fwd.
2) The repayment of failed training is seems but also illegal in HK courts.(As I understand) No Training bonds are allowed in HK. But hey are you going to win a court battle with CX? No!
3) Forgivable loan - Being a Loan, and for the FULL PERIOD it is still classed as a loan the HK banks will not allow you to get a Mortgage until the "forgivable loan" is complete i.e. the full term has run it course. Thus you cannot buy property here for 6 years? (Not sure the term of the commitment is?)
4) Forgivable loan - Is fully taxed from the start after 12months. So beware!
5) Experience - S/O time is making beds etc, no real joy in flying and ****ty rest..which counts nothing if you plan on leaving. You'll need 5/6 years to upgrade to JFO. Followed by at least 3 yrs of experience before being able to move on. Total 8-10yrs commitment
Thus Make Sure you are < 22yrs and single willing to flat share for all that time.
Guys with CPL with enough hours would be better to suited to work in GA etc..
>25yrs and Married & not planning to be single with partners not working in HK- Forget it!!
Anyway ask the HKAOA for advice, they will hopefully tell you more truths than the company. After all it is now known they are neg hiring DEFO again soon I heard. If these are done in big numbers expect time to JFO to be 6yrs.. Have you got protection in your contract? It does not matter anyway as you will lose the case aka SW case where he lost S/O BPP appeal. So CX will talk to you like many of you talk to a blue eyed blonde on a first date!
But then you have time on your side as you are young so go for if <22yrs.
> 22yrs with experience go to Qatar as S/O. Or work G/A its very rewarding life experience there will always be time for "less trilling" airline flying later on.
But i'm talking to a wall no doubt.
Anyway I hope CX will do the right thing but many will agree, that is doubtful.
www.hkaoa.org/public/hkaoa/contact.jsp
Address : Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association
5th Floor Daily House
35-37 Haiphong Road
Tsim Sha Tsui, Kowloon
Hong Kong
Tel : +852 2736 0823
Fax : +852 2736 0903
E-mail : [email protected]
Being employed as "skilled" labour IE >250hrs by law you are entitled to a full Expat allowance (Which they are currently not paying due a new discrimination law Expats vs Locals which would work if you were employed with 0 hrs)
1) Now that you are classed as "skilled labour" that is not found in HK ie >250hrs there is no discrimination and are be entitled to full expat allowances!! and is not effected by this law as I understand.
So here starts a major stumbling point going fwd.
2) The repayment of failed training is seems but also illegal in HK courts.(As I understand) No Training bonds are allowed in HK. But hey are you going to win a court battle with CX? No!
3) Forgivable loan - Being a Loan, and for the FULL PERIOD it is still classed as a loan the HK banks will not allow you to get a Mortgage until the "forgivable loan" is complete i.e. the full term has run it course. Thus you cannot buy property here for 6 years? (Not sure the term of the commitment is?)
4) Forgivable loan - Is fully taxed from the start after 12months. So beware!
5) Experience - S/O time is making beds etc, no real joy in flying and ****ty rest..which counts nothing if you plan on leaving. You'll need 5/6 years to upgrade to JFO. Followed by at least 3 yrs of experience before being able to move on. Total 8-10yrs commitment
Thus Make Sure you are < 22yrs and single willing to flat share for all that time.
Guys with CPL with enough hours would be better to suited to work in GA etc..
>25yrs and Married & not planning to be single with partners not working in HK- Forget it!!
Anyway ask the HKAOA for advice, they will hopefully tell you more truths than the company. After all it is now known they are neg hiring DEFO again soon I heard. If these are done in big numbers expect time to JFO to be 6yrs.. Have you got protection in your contract? It does not matter anyway as you will lose the case aka SW case where he lost S/O BPP appeal. So CX will talk to you like many of you talk to a blue eyed blonde on a first date!
But then you have time on your side as you are young so go for if <22yrs.
> 22yrs with experience go to Qatar as S/O. Or work G/A its very rewarding life experience there will always be time for "less trilling" airline flying later on.
But i'm talking to a wall no doubt.
Anyway I hope CX will do the right thing but many will agree, that is doubtful.
www.hkaoa.org/public/hkaoa/contact.jsp
Address : Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association
5th Floor Daily House
35-37 Haiphong Road
Tsim Sha Tsui, Kowloon
Hong Kong
Tel : +852 2736 0823
Fax : +852 2736 0903
E-mail : [email protected]
Last edited by crewsunite; 11th Jan 2012 at 15:45.
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Hi crewsunite,
I have found the book "49ers" in the university library and realized most of the cons that you and other IDs (e.g. Dan, China) mentioned are inconveniently true (given that Mr. John Warham put down the facts). It is the attitude and actions of Cathay's management level that makes me hesitate now (I am currently awaiting the third round interview).
As a local Chinese, unfortunately, I cannot achieve my dream of flying by other means, since there is actually no affordable general aviation programs in Hong Kong. Nor could I afford training or obtaining license abroad.
The question is, given the history and current situation, could you foresee any possibility of improvement of the relation between management and the pilot crew in Cathay? Or would the newly entered cadets suffer from the similar experience like the one between 1994-1998?
I appreciate the people in AOA who pay their efforts to ensure flight safety and defend service quality.
Thank you!
I have found the book "49ers" in the university library and realized most of the cons that you and other IDs (e.g. Dan, China) mentioned are inconveniently true (given that Mr. John Warham put down the facts). It is the attitude and actions of Cathay's management level that makes me hesitate now (I am currently awaiting the third round interview).
As a local Chinese, unfortunately, I cannot achieve my dream of flying by other means, since there is actually no affordable general aviation programs in Hong Kong. Nor could I afford training or obtaining license abroad.
The question is, given the history and current situation, could you foresee any possibility of improvement of the relation between management and the pilot crew in Cathay? Or would the newly entered cadets suffer from the similar experience like the one between 1994-1998?
I appreciate the people in AOA who pay their efforts to ensure flight safety and defend service quality.
Thank you!
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As a local you should go for it 100%! This program was designed for you in the 1st place. And we should have many more locals to balance out Expats.
But having "Expats" under locals terms are wrong!
There are thousands of Local HK's whom would love to work for CX and should. Cx need's to make up about 30% of there intake as local Cadets.
But some very experienced Expats with families etc. are moving onto other carriers due to terms here. This is wrong as this airline seriously needs those candidates which the fleet offices are crying out for.
I'm actually very surprised the local media have not picked up on this injustice.
CX are outsourcing jobs to foreigners under hidden pretenses.
etc...
Anway as a local with experience and years behind you, you could always move to HKA as hear some locals plan to once its proven to be up and running successfully.
Good luck..
(DEFO B744 may be on USA bases not HK)
How long does a base need to be open for? 1 day?
Or maybe change those procedures if things are desperate in terms of crewing. What can we do?
Call the AOA, well start by calling them now and asking what the have planned if this happens?
But having "Expats" under locals terms are wrong!
There are thousands of Local HK's whom would love to work for CX and should. Cx need's to make up about 30% of there intake as local Cadets.
But some very experienced Expats with families etc. are moving onto other carriers due to terms here. This is wrong as this airline seriously needs those candidates which the fleet offices are crying out for.
I'm actually very surprised the local media have not picked up on this injustice.
CX are outsourcing jobs to foreigners under hidden pretenses.
etc...
Anway as a local with experience and years behind you, you could always move to HKA as hear some locals plan to once its proven to be up and running successfully.
Good luck..
(DEFO B744 may be on USA bases not HK)
How long does a base need to be open for? 1 day?
Or maybe change those procedures if things are desperate in terms of crewing. What can we do?
Call the AOA, well start by calling them now and asking what the have planned if this happens?
Last edited by crewsunite; 11th Jan 2012 at 15:52.
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Crewsunite
CX can't offer DEFO on bases before they offered these vacancies to us via a Basings bid. Only leftover vacancies after the Basings bid closes can be offered to new hires.
CX can't offer DEFO on bases before they offered these vacancies to us via a Basings bid. Only leftover vacancies after the Basings bid closes can be offered to new hires.
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Illustrator - well done on also having the common sense & maturity to research the job. Warham's book cemented my belief that my decision to turn down CX's offer was the correct one.
But still too many here wish to bank (yes, literally "BANK") a 30-40 year career based on pipe dreams, wishful thinking & hopes that CX are not as immoral, ruthless, greedy & as devious as their past 20 years has overwhelmingly PROVEN. Nothing in Warham's book could have been published in not 100% true for fear of litigation.
Why do you think CX use the "Tell us about a time when...." interview technique? Because all personality traits & studies prove that one's past behaviour is the greatest predictor of one's future behaviour. What does CX's past workplace relations tell you about them? C'mon people! Open your eyes & remove your head from the sand!!!!!
As for DEFO.... That'll be interesting. Imagine being 6000+ hr pilot with 1000's of hours jet time yet holding a seniority number behind a kid with either zero hours or a fresh CPL. He / she will reach command faster than you. Thats the seniority system which is the backbone of this profession - & rightly so. So by logic you may only be lucky enough to maybe, just maybe gain a Command in the final years of your career.
That kid who was your SO asking you about little things like V1 or high altitude swept wing ops & VMCA, who all but needs a change of underwear when a pretty FA enters the cockpit or even acknowledges him is now your Capt. How many are going to go for that with this bull$hit housing package???!!!!
If you've the runs on the board to go DEFO then at the very least I'd think most credible pilots would work for an airline where at the very least their employment rights are protected.
CX offer a DEFO what therefore??
But still too many here wish to bank (yes, literally "BANK") a 30-40 year career based on pipe dreams, wishful thinking & hopes that CX are not as immoral, ruthless, greedy & as devious as their past 20 years has overwhelmingly PROVEN. Nothing in Warham's book could have been published in not 100% true for fear of litigation.
Why do you think CX use the "Tell us about a time when...." interview technique? Because all personality traits & studies prove that one's past behaviour is the greatest predictor of one's future behaviour. What does CX's past workplace relations tell you about them? C'mon people! Open your eyes & remove your head from the sand!!!!!
As for DEFO.... That'll be interesting. Imagine being 6000+ hr pilot with 1000's of hours jet time yet holding a seniority number behind a kid with either zero hours or a fresh CPL. He / she will reach command faster than you. Thats the seniority system which is the backbone of this profession - & rightly so. So by logic you may only be lucky enough to maybe, just maybe gain a Command in the final years of your career.
That kid who was your SO asking you about little things like V1 or high altitude swept wing ops & VMCA, who all but needs a change of underwear when a pretty FA enters the cockpit or even acknowledges him is now your Capt. How many are going to go for that with this bull$hit housing package???!!!!
If you've the runs on the board to go DEFO then at the very least I'd think most credible pilots would work for an airline where at the very least their employment rights are protected.
CX offer a DEFO what therefore??
Last edited by ChinaBeached; 11th Jan 2012 at 21:27.
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turned cathay down
Thanks for all the advice everyone gave me. Much to the disbelief of many around me, I turned the cx cpp down. I may only be 21 but instead of using that as the reason to go to CX, I see at as a reason to venture into GA and soon enough I can be owning my own hours in the right hand seat of narrow body jet within the next 2 years (or even 6 months if i'm lucky). There are plenty of other reasons to not join CX anyways, many if not all are mentioned here on these forums hopefully all of you have taken the time to read them. I hope nobody will be pissed off with my decision as I know a lot of you wannabes would do anything to have been in my position. Good luck to everyone in their careers 
I will still stay on this forum and help out when I can, in the meantime, wannabes I highly recommend that you do listen to those superiors around you. They are not angry at you or trying to stop you from following your dreams, they are simply angry at what CX is doing and what this industry is becoming, and trying to help you open your eyes so you CAN follow your dreams, rather than live a nightmare.
Em773ER
I will still stay on this forum and help out when I can, in the meantime, wannabes I highly recommend that you do listen to those superiors around you. They are not angry at you or trying to stop you from following your dreams, they are simply angry at what CX is doing and what this industry is becoming, and trying to help you open your eyes so you CAN follow your dreams, rather than live a nightmare.
Em773ER
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GTC58
Please don't ever start a sentence with "CX can't ......." everyone knows CX can and does whatever it wants.
EM773ER
Well done, good luck in the future, I really hope you get the chance to join CX as a DEFO on expat terms!!! Please keep your progress updated it'll be interesting to follow your career vs an iCadet's.
Please don't ever start a sentence with "CX can't ......." everyone knows CX can and does whatever it wants.
EM773ER
Well done, good luck in the future, I really hope you get the chance to join CX as a DEFO on expat terms!!! Please keep your progress updated it'll be interesting to follow your career vs an iCadet's.
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Hello all,
Hong Kong PR living in Vancouver here.
Applied to the Cadet program mid 2011, and I just got the e-mail early yesterday morning to attend the stage 1 interview in Hong Kong next month. Anyone else get the call?
currently on the 27th page of this epic thread... it's going to be a long night!
Hong Kong PR living in Vancouver here.
Applied to the Cadet program mid 2011, and I just got the e-mail early yesterday morning to attend the stage 1 interview in Hong Kong next month. Anyone else get the call?
currently on the 27th page of this epic thread... it's going to be a long night!
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hello, nice to meet u
u had waited for stage 1 interview for 6 months after application? such a long period...
i have sumbitted my application 1 months ago,
how's your preparation?
u had waited for stage 1 interview for 6 months after application? such a long period...
i have sumbitted my application 1 months ago,
how's your preparation?
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Yes I kind of forgot that I applied and gave up already...
As I do have some very basic aviation knowledge, the booklet that they sent me this morning looks like it would mostly be review for myself. Maybe another read of the From the Ground Up and I'll be set for the general aviation knowledge section. As for some of the historical stuff, I'll just have to look further into the company history and get to know my potential employer.
As I do have some very basic aviation knowledge, the booklet that they sent me this morning looks like it would mostly be review for myself. Maybe another read of the From the Ground Up and I'll be set for the general aviation knowledge section. As for some of the historical stuff, I'll just have to look further into the company history and get to know my potential employer.
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I'll just have to look further into into the company history and get to know my potential employer
Step 1) read John Warham's book "The 49ers- The True Story".
Step 2) read the terms and conditions of this C Scale offer whereby CX management use the despicable term "discrimination" as a means to lower pilots' remuneration as well as a tool to divide and conquer.
Step 3) read through the 2 x forums under Fragrant Harbour and read all the threads commenting on the iCadet package.
There's your history lesson.
What does a pilot get for some out of uniform private pictures stolen from his computer and posted on the internet? Fired.
What does management get for committing purgery in court, for knowingly and deliberately lying to its staff, for getting caught not once but twice for illegal price fixing costing MILLIONS, for completely screwing up fuel hedging again at a cost of MILLIONS, for completely screwing up pilots' basings, and so on, and so on.....??? Massive bonuses.
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M Taylor
Still haven't read the changes on here. Mind if you can direct me to the posts that talk about these changes? (I'm still on page 130, so if it's recent I'll get up to it soon).
Also, you have to remember, like what crewsunite said, that this programme was designed for locals (Hong Kong), where flying opportunities is very low and very expensive. I can barely afford the PPL course at the Hong Kong Aviation Club.
Btw, they hardly update their careers website. It's been a year and a bit (or maybe even two) and the only change I've noticed was the application page saying "ONLY recruiting Second Officers." At the time I was applying, it seemed that FOs were able to apply.
kitcanfly
Six months to a year is normal waiting time. Just keep that in mind and study everyday, you'll be almost prepared by the time you get an invite.
ChinaBeached
Been meaning to buy and read that book. Hopefully I can find it in the local book shops.
Still haven't read the changes on here. Mind if you can direct me to the posts that talk about these changes? (I'm still on page 130, so if it's recent I'll get up to it soon).
Also, you have to remember, like what crewsunite said, that this programme was designed for locals (Hong Kong), where flying opportunities is very low and very expensive. I can barely afford the PPL course at the Hong Kong Aviation Club.
Btw, they hardly update their careers website. It's been a year and a bit (or maybe even two) and the only change I've noticed was the application page saying "ONLY recruiting Second Officers." At the time I was applying, it seemed that FOs were able to apply.
kitcanfly
Six months to a year is normal waiting time. Just keep that in mind and study everyday, you'll be almost prepared by the time you get an invite.
ChinaBeached
Been meaning to buy and read that book. Hopefully I can find it in the local book shops.
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Chinabeached
thanks for all your facts
I'll pass your recommendations since I have already read your novel throughout the 150+ posts in this thread.
I want to know more about your background, what exactly did they do to you that prompted you to dig so deep into their corporate "policies" and educate the world about them? were you one of the 49?
thanks for all your facts
I'll pass your recommendations since I have already read your novel throughout the 150+ posts in this thread.
I want to know more about your background, what exactly did they do to you that prompted you to dig so deep into their corporate "policies" and educate the world about them? were you one of the 49?
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Hi All
Although I follow this thread, I normally try to stay out of it, and if I do comment, to at least try to stay positive about the iCadet program.
However, recent findings are slightly alarming and I feel it needs to be mentioned clearly.
1. From the latest HKAOA (Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association) newsletter:
This is not yet confirmed, but clearly enough evidence exist for the AOA to put it in their newsletter.
I find this action by the company deplorable and future candidates will have to think really hard if the risk of paying HKD1.1M for failed training is worth it.
2. Also from the AOA newsletter comes news of the first iCadet trying to buy property in Hong Kong using the forgiveable loan received after training.
His attempt failed when he could not get a homeloan approved from the HKMC (Hong Kong Mortgage Corp). The reason was that they saw the forgiveable loan as a liability and not a deposit.
Although there are ways to buy property without using the HKMC, it will be very difficult as you will have to put down a 30% to 50% (depending on the property price) deposit. If you look at property prices in HKG you'll see that this would be a substabtial amount of money.
Personally I feel that it is very important to own property as part of one's financial portfolio and also as a retirement asset. With this new problem it will be almost impossible for new joiners to buy unless you come to HKG with a big lump sum of cash.
3. Rumours abound about the Hong Kong Immigration Department not granting Work Permits to non-Hong Kong Residents with less than 250 hours.
This problem was discovered early last year, but was apparently solved by CX during talks with the Immigration Department.
I am not sure whether the rumours are resurfacing or if the problem was in fact not solved.
I stuck my head into the recruitment office yesterday and asked the question very specifically. The answer was that the current requirements as per the website is still accurate but that there are "possible problems" with the Immigration Department.
I could not get hold of Rachel, but will see if I can contact her next week to get a better answer.
If this rumour is true, we will in any case get confirmation from guys that is busy with their training in Adelaide.
So, all in all the new terms offered by CX seems to be getting worse while a lot of people were hoping that in the face of a apparent pilot shortage it would get better.
I am not saying don't join CX, but the above issues needs to be factored into every potential applicant's decisions.
Regards and as always, PM me anytime if you need more info.
PP
Although I follow this thread, I normally try to stay out of it, and if I do comment, to at least try to stay positive about the iCadet program.
However, recent findings are slightly alarming and I feel it needs to be mentioned clearly.
1. From the latest HKAOA (Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association) newsletter:
It seems also that CEPs in training in Adelaide are required to sign a new contract requiring them to pay for their training should they fail to meet Cathay‟s standards for employment.
I find this action by the company deplorable and future candidates will have to think really hard if the risk of paying HKD1.1M for failed training is worth it.
2. Also from the AOA newsletter comes news of the first iCadet trying to buy property in Hong Kong using the forgiveable loan received after training.
His attempt failed when he could not get a homeloan approved from the HKMC (Hong Kong Mortgage Corp). The reason was that they saw the forgiveable loan as a liability and not a deposit.
Although there are ways to buy property without using the HKMC, it will be very difficult as you will have to put down a 30% to 50% (depending on the property price) deposit. If you look at property prices in HKG you'll see that this would be a substabtial amount of money.
Personally I feel that it is very important to own property as part of one's financial portfolio and also as a retirement asset. With this new problem it will be almost impossible for new joiners to buy unless you come to HKG with a big lump sum of cash.
3. Rumours abound about the Hong Kong Immigration Department not granting Work Permits to non-Hong Kong Residents with less than 250 hours.
This problem was discovered early last year, but was apparently solved by CX during talks with the Immigration Department.
I am not sure whether the rumours are resurfacing or if the problem was in fact not solved.
I stuck my head into the recruitment office yesterday and asked the question very specifically. The answer was that the current requirements as per the website is still accurate but that there are "possible problems" with the Immigration Department.
I could not get hold of Rachel, but will see if I can contact her next week to get a better answer.
If this rumour is true, we will in any case get confirmation from guys that is busy with their training in Adelaide.
So, all in all the new terms offered by CX seems to be getting worse while a lot of people were hoping that in the face of a apparent pilot shortage it would get better.
I am not saying don't join CX, but the above issues needs to be factored into every potential applicant's decisions.
Regards and as always, PM me anytime if you need more info.
PP
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Pitot Probe
thanks for sharing this info, even though they are just rumors. as a wannabe icadet i am, applied quite recently, i'm thinking about that 1.1M payback to the company in case of failure. all right, as a passionate and willing to give the best everytime, that is quite scary anyway!!
does anybody who's about to start training at the FTA have any news regarding this rumor?
does anybody who's about to start training at the FTA have any news regarding this rumor?