Meester, perhaps the fact that the round trip to Miami with BA in Dec is £376 and with NAS is £829 is not exactly encouraging travel, thats if you can travel at allTravel to USA is subject to entry restrictions
The share price is not a prediction, more of a kind of "fact" To gain any sort of traction they should delay LH ops until Feb/Mar 2021 when hopefully they would be in a position to resource them properly. |
The share price is but you seem to have drawn a lot of conclusions from example of a ticket price - ie not enough money for winter and “ slashing LH from gatwick “ - where are these two statements from ?
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...-nationalised/
"Norwegian could be nationalised under radical plans being considered by government officials in Oslo.Political leaders in Norway’s ruling coalition have indicated that they favour bailing out the struggling budget carrier rather than the older flag carrier SAS. Airline bosses have held talks with the government last week, local media reported." |
It should read; former flag carrier SAS. Norway sold off its shares some time ago.
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Exactly. Last batch of shares in SAS were sold off in 2018. Due to the current circumstances with covid19, SAS tried to persuade the Norwegian government to retake a stake in the company, but Norway wisely refused. The Norwegian politicians seem to think it is better to keep a healthy competition in the Nordic market, and support Norwegian. More to come over the next weeks.
As for LH, CEO confirmed that a decent part of routes we're healthy and profitable, hence expect to see red nosed 787’s operating out of LGW again,once restrictions are lifted. |
From the CEO: https://app-cdn-test.ft.com/content/...onid=companies
The whole point of reducing operations to a minimum was survival, the taking over of the shares in the service companies effectively plugged the court actions in Spain, kept the pilots on basic state aid, although OPCs are being done etc. If they try and re-launch LH ops before financially capable it will be good night merry Christmas.. a bit of patience is needed. And ticket price is not the only consideration when booking, with BA if your plans are effected you can change your fight dates and destination with no fees.. With NAS you can change your flight date OR get a refund. Agreed, once Covid restrictions are eased the USA routes may pick up, but these days everyone is price sensitive and looking for security. Perhaps this explains things a little clearer : https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/artic...ash-to-survive The old chestnut of card companies withholding liquidity crops up again ! not the first airline to suffer.. |
Are OPCs being done outside the Norwegian 737 lot who have kept going ?
I’ve heard of some paying to renew 787, but personally I really dont t see the point yet - keep your powder dry etc. |
Need to keep an eye on the share prices after 9th October:
https://www.marketscreener.com/quote...onds-31385225/ Another deal done with the creditors for the end of lease maintenance obligations, the "bonds" will be tradable 9th October and 9th Dec. |
Back to square one.
Why would the Norwegian government pay a Chinese/Irish owned airline to fly between LGW and the US? |
Because they believe that one day you can make money on those routes and pay back the debt (or at least some of it)
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Because the Irish and the Chinese are only transitional owners, Norway needs an airline to connect the regions to each other and to the outside world, SAS needs a competitor to keep prices down, nobody in Scandi wants or trusts Ryanair and an airline serving just Norway does not have the size and economies of scale to be competitive. Having shafted the foreigners with the debt equity swap Norwegians will buy back the company for 1 Kroner and go on to make a nice pile.
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You forget it’s going to cost some 12-15 billion NOK before they can buy the company for 1 NOK.
Not saying it’s impossible, but that is a lot of money to pay for jobs in other countries. The way this company is organised continous to be a problem for them. The company was i bad shape before Covid, something a lot of people seem to have forgotten. |
What are the legal / EI competition implications of a state owned airline, Norwegian, operating out of the UK to the US / Southern Europe (potentially with G registered aircraft and a UK AOC) in direct competition with non state owned airlines?
Think it would open a whole can of worms and a lot of legal challenges from the likes BA / Virgin / EasyJet / Jet2 especially after the UK airlines appear to have been thrown on the scrapheap by Boris and his chums, potentially interesting times ahead. |
If the Norwegian Government to take a stake in the airline, considering BOC is Chinese state owned they would be in bed with a whole myriad of partners. They would have to shell out too much to take a controlling interest in the company as the existing shareholders would need their equity bought out. Norwegian Air Uk is the Uk AOC holder and as such would not be considered a "State owned" airline.
It may be that the new Norwegian would get preferential treatment in the home country but outside of Norway it is just another carrier. One issue is who will now pay the staff in the UK given the Furlough scheme changes and if the Norwegian government will want to pay foreign wages with state funds. In Spain it's the Spanish Government meeting the costs apart from social taxes, not the same here in the UK. A condition of any AOC is "financial stability". From 9th October onwards will be an indication of how the markets react. |
Will there be a Norwegian outside Scandinavia?
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The suggestion is a temporary solution whilst/ if the airline can generate any liquidity :
The government stated that there was an option to bail out the struggling air carrier rather than revive Scandinavian Airlines, which is already partly owned by Denmark and Sweden. The government officials considered that taking a majority of Norwegian Air stake would result in the temporary airline’s nationalisation. The long-term nationalisation of the carrier would be hardly possible as there are law-related issues with other European airlines such as Lufthansa . The airline has already given multiple hints that it would need more financial support from the government. Earlier in September 2020, Schram warned that the state loan guarantee was not sufficient enough to get through COVID-19 crisis. The airline claimed that it would need a new rescue package despite the already-secured €285 million (NOK3 billion) state aid guarantee. |
Not good news when a heavyweight like Wizz starts competing on your domestic routes..
https://www.routesonline.com/news/29...mestic-market/ |
And one of the Braathen brothers starting up another airline too.
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fruitbat
Wizz is cash rich at the moment and well placed to see things through the next 2 years. The call the Norwegian government will have to make is whether to pour money down the drain with one operation, which is already under financial pressure and scrutiny, or sit back and let Wizz create new jobs and sustainability within their own domestic markets. Most governments are just interested in employment statistics and if Wizz create new positions and bring revenues to the country that may influence their decisions. What is bizarre is that the LH routes "on Hold until 03/21, according to the management "t are still being advertised from UK from Dec. Being bullish is one thing but surely this strategy is a home goal and will destroy any credibility the airline has left. Everyone would dearly like the LH to kick start again for the sake of all the crews.. but this nonsense? https://www.travelweekly.co.uk/artic...d-covid-crisis |
The main problem with Wizz is the quality of jobs they create not the quantity, unfortunately. Hopefully Norwegian politicians see this and they can put a clear message through to their voters on the subject. I would be extremely sad to see Norwegian go as well as Wizz thrive (even though i have many friends working for the latter due to lack of better opportunities at the moment).
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I should think the Norwegian government doesn’t want wizz anywhere near the important inter Scandinavian routes
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From Scandiland news: They now consider closing their Gatwick base.
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ManaAdaSystem.....in line with what you say, the rumour I hear suggests that Norwegian's short-haul ops at LGW will cease on 30th November and any folk presently on furlough will correspondingly be made redundant.
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Kirks gusset
I'm not sure the Norwegian government will see WIZZ as a suitable replacement, most of the local jobs would be low paid line maintenance, cabin crew a few pilots and any profits from revenue will go back to WIZZ home country, WIZZ cost base similar to FR which tells you all you need to know about well paid jobs, Oslo will step in to Norwefgian. |
I suspect that there will be many airlines in state ownership before this is over, not much point having a trillion dollars rainy day sovereign wealth fund and not using it when it pisses it down, Norway is heavily dependant on tourism, the plan would be to privatise it downline, a bit like the SNP with Prestwick except that the Norwegians are well educated and the SNP are thick as mince.
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Don't Norway and the EU have an Open Skies agreement?
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Originally Posted by EIFFS
(Post 10901466)
any profits from revenue will go back to WIZZ home country
Also, how much of Norwegian's profits has Norway been getting recently and what's their ROI on current aid? |
I don’t see Norwegian in their current shape and form surviving however:
Norway might be interested in a controlling stake in a “national” airline serving OSL. If Norwegian can renegotiate its leases and Norway can buy the airline on the cheap it might be viable in the long term in a much smaller form. Look at the Aerlingus model connecting Europe and North America or Finnair between Asia and Europe. Competing on a short haul market with WIZZ or RYR would be a complete death sentence as is LH loco. |
Tourism may well be important for Norway, as with every other country, however, the tourism income results from people visiting the county and spending internally. Of course there is an element of infrastructure revenues from taxi, airport staff etc. The means by which tourists get to the county matters not, and in the case of NAS, most of the "revenue" is hoovered up with the historical debts , most of which reside outside Norway. The proposed closure of LGW SH ops was always on the cards, there was no way the Company would stump up wages for Foreign workers when haemorrhaging funds at home. Perhaps the cost savings may be enough to allow the LH ops to start again.
Norwegian Air’s short-haul flights from Gatwick will not be affected as they are operated by pilots and crew based in the Nordics, the spokesman said. Sad times once again, Spain only costs them social taxes so may be safe until the summer when things should pick up... unless Wizz take advantage of the routes, The release of the locked up shares yesterday (9th) resulted in a 24% fall in share prices. https://www.marketscreener.com/quote...k-up-31509812/ |
I can assure you no one I know of in LH, has any sight , or knowledge of “ flexicontracts “, or any such thing.
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Kirks gussett
I have absolutely no idea where you get your information from but a sizeable chunk of it posted on this thread is utter rubbish .
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Probably the same "rubbish" that was presented at the investor relations meeting in April before the May bail out agreement and the vision for the "New Norwegian"
Increased use of seasonal agreements to manage winter trough |
Truth be told , it’s always been seasonal and I think it was this time last year they were asking who wants to go part time , leave of abscence, unpaid leave etc.
But that’s a soundbite for investors you have there and doesn’t relate directly to the reality for the crews |
Correct, this is about roster flexibility more than anything else. Not flexicrew contracts like easyJet had. It is a no go in the Nordics.
As for LGW SH and new Norwegian, operate Scandi to LGW and then connect to Norwegian LH, where there is a market to operate and a decent sized long-haul network. Why bother going LGW-ALC, let the vultures battle it out.. |
The management of Norwegian is considering shutting down longhaul ops out of LGW. according to the news here in Scandinavia.
The companys shares are now very close to beeing worthless, trading at 0.7 NOK at the Oslo stock exchange. The only chance this company has is if the norwegian government decides to re capitalize the company. Something they sofar have been reluctant to do, as it is considered to be the same as throwing money into a bottomless pit. |
or are they awaiting bankruptcy so they can pick up whatever remains they want? Re-negotiating leases and so-on?
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Diavel
Still the message before was they needed more funds at the end of this year after the earlier lifeline, so for govt it shouldnt come as a surprise they need more .. Q3 report due 29/10 so maybe some more info then about the situation... |
And the share price continues a slow burn to nothing.
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I’m surprised they have lasted this long in the current climate.
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https://simplywall.st/stocks/no/tran...too-much-debt/
The Norwegian Government needs to get off the fence. |
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