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-   -   Hard times for Norwegian (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/625175-hard-times-norwegian.html)

The Range 2nd Sep 2019 19:50

Hard times for Norwegian
 
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/02/b...ure/index.html

BluSdUp 2nd Sep 2019 21:11

Crises avoided!
 
No problem.
I singelhandedly saved them by bringing my flightbag AND my little carry on.
Was charged 75 euro at the gate under great protest. 75 euro!
I promised to never fly Norwegian again , I was wished a good day and pleasant journey.
I am not sure WTF they are thinking but pissing of one of the best customers they ever had is not good.
They need me, I like them, they have stupid low fare in general and HAU OSL in particular.
Saved me 100 000s of kr. thanks for the ride.

That is on a personal level.
The more rational side of me says: OOOPS!
Betting the Gatwick Slots for extended credit!!??
Short analyses : If the RR engines dont start working soon and the MAX not fixed by say end February , it is all over!

I sure hope they survive as I can afford the extra luggage price and have lots of good friends in NOR, but for the first time I have lost the faith.

Regards
Cpt B

JohnnyGoode 2nd Sep 2019 21:43


“The more rational side of me says: OOOPS!
Betting the Gatwick Slots for extended credit!!??
Short analyses : If the RR engines dont start working soon and the MAX not fixed by say end February , it is all over!”

A market analysis from a guy who does not understand why excess cabin luggage is an issue for Norwegian (and any airline in Europe these days)
- that’s rather (unintentionally) humorous. Thank you ‘captain’, keep it up;)

BluSdUp 2nd Sep 2019 22:13

Oh , but I think it was quite entertaining and it was well worth the 75e.
Consider the loss for them the ca 75 times I did not pay!
Now that is humorous.
At least to me!

Nightstop 3rd Sep 2019 07:35

What part of their T&C’s don’t you understand?Included in your hand baggage:
  • One carry-on bag free-of-charge. See below.
  • One small personal item to be placed under the seat in front of you (e.g. a small handbag, slim laptop case, duty free bag). See below.
  • Please pack essentials in your personal item (e.g. medicine, valuables and baby items).
  • The above comprises 1 cabin bag (55 x 40 x 23) and a small personal item (25 x 33 x 20). Max total weight: 10 kg.

Livesinafield 3rd Sep 2019 09:07

The good old carry on luggage debate always makes me giggle watching pax go absolutely berserk because their bag doesn’t fit into the sizer and they are charged, funny thing is if you just have a read of the regs or even better check your bag in guess what big surprise, you don’t get stung...

Meester proach 3rd Sep 2019 09:59

What irritates me is the check in staff letting them get to the plane with all that clobber.

Theres normally no space for my wallet...

Clop_Clop 3rd Sep 2019 10:15

Still the design of the aeroplane is what it is, and bags meant to go in the hold instead of onboard...

jmmoric 3rd Sep 2019 11:33

I would just wish all companies has the same size for carry on's... It annoys me that I can take a bag along in one carrier, but in another I cannot....

In the end, if they'd just improve the time is takes for luggage to go from aircraft to band, I'd never carry anything into the aircraft.... and save them the time I have to spend putting my carry on in the overhead bin.

There must be an easier way of handling luggage...

Joe le Taxi 3rd Sep 2019 11:34

Why are y'all blithering on about bags - this is about a potential default or forced debt restructure, which if it fails, looks like collapse of Norwegian (they mention a buyout in the event of default, but a default would lead precipitously to administration). New bonds secured by LGW slots?... But can they do that, because slots cannot be collateralised and traded unless they are owned an operated by an airline?

glofish 3rd Sep 2019 13:01

Since the pioneer's days of Freddie Laker, Longhaul Lowcost has always and only gone in one direction.
But still some Willheneverlearn finds some Willtheyneverthink who invest in the next hopeless chapter.

The Fat Controller 3rd Sep 2019 13:01

At least 5 of their Dreamliners currently at Prestwick, wonder if they'll ever leave !

bringbackthe80s 4th Sep 2019 06:16


Originally Posted by glofish (Post 10560837)
Since the pioneer's days of Freddie Laker, Longhaul Lowcost has always and only gone in one direction.
But still some Willheneverlearn finds some Willtheyneverthink who invest in the next hopeless chapter.

Not true, the ones within major airlines do work. But a company not within another company has very little chance I’d say

srjumbo747 4th Sep 2019 07:33


Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s (Post 10561418)


Not true, the ones within major airlines do work. But a company not within another company has very little chance I’d say

Oh? Care to name a few?

Riskybis 4th Sep 2019 08:10


Originally Posted by srjumbo747 (Post 10561471)

Oh? Care to name a few?

i guess IAGs Level is pretty low cost

Plastic787 4th Sep 2019 08:21


Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s (Post 10561418)


Not true, the ones within major airlines do work. But a company not within another company has very little chance I’d say

Is that why Lufthansa have brought all Eurowings Long Haul back to mainline?

(Oh and Air France shut down Joon too).

calypso 4th Sep 2019 08:37

It seems to me that Norwegian is finally trying to put its house in order. Closing unprofitable routes, selling non core assets and re-structuring debt is part of that. Maybe painful short term but definatly the right thing to do to get back on track.

krismiler 4th Sep 2019 08:59


Since the pioneer's days of Freddie Laker, Longhaul Lowcost has always and only gone in one direction.
If there was money to be made in long haul low cost, Michael O'Leary would have been onto it years ago and Ryanair would be operating widebodies. Would a company which would charge for using the lavatory onboard if it could get away with it pass up a money making opportunity ?

The companies which stayed close to the basic low cost model such as Southwest, Ryanair and Easyjet have mostly been successful. Those that went longhaul with widebodies mostly haven't.

The A321LR and B737 MAX will be interesting as routes beyond the traditional out and back same day will be possible with the advantage that they can still be used on the regular network if the longer stuff doesn't work out.

Joe le Taxi 4th Sep 2019 09:06


Originally Posted by calypso (Post 10561511)
It seems to me that Norwegian is finally trying to put its house in order. Closing unprofitable routes, selling non core assets and re-structuring debt is part of that. Maybe painful short term but definatly the right thing to do to get back on track.

Interesting spin - but being forced into delaying debt repayment can hardly be regarded as"putting your house in order". Apart from anything else, it will make future debt more expensive

lomapaseo 4th Sep 2019 13:57


Originally Posted by Joe le Taxi (Post 10561534)
Interesting spin - but being forced into delaying debt repayment can hardly be regarded as"putting your house in order". Apart from anything else, it will make future debt more expensive

But doesn't it give the airline more time to be bailed by somebody with deeper pockets?

CaptainProp 4th Sep 2019 15:03


Originally Posted by lomapaseo (Post 10561699)
But doesn't it give the airline more time to be bailed by somebody with deeper pockets?

Maybe, but who would buy? I just don’t see it happening....

CP

calypso 4th Sep 2019 15:58

Expanding an airline costs vast sums of money. You have to buy new aircraft, train new crews, expand the back office and wait for new routes to ether fail or mature. Norwegian was planning to fund the expansion from profits of the core business, clearly those profits where not enough given the scale of the expansion. The expansion has now stoped so those costs will also drop considerably. On top of that there have been the issues with the RR engines, which RR says they have now fixed - although the full implementation of the fix will take a couple of years. Further to that we have the MAX grounding which should resolve itself in the next few months - and a settlement should be reached with Boeing to cover some of the costs.

In this context pushing back the debt repayment to a period where all these one off costs are no longer a factor makes a lot of sense. Tackling the issues head on seems a more sensible strategy that trying to outrun them which appeared to be the previous plan. It sets the basis to rescue the business and return to profit.

sarah737 4th Sep 2019 16:48


Originally Posted by calypso (Post 10561767)
In this context pushing back the debt repayment to a period where all these one off costs are no longer a factor makes a lot of sense. Tackling the issues head on seems a more sensible strategy that trying to outrun them which appeared to be the previous plan. It sets the basis to rescue the business and return to profit.

If that would be the case Norwegian would simply issue new bonds to pay back the old ones. Only problem: NOBODY wants to buy Norwegian bonds, these bonds are now yielding over 30% in times when banks offer 0% and still there are no buyers..
Defaulting on a bond severely restricts the issuer’s ability to acquire financing in the future, a default is usually a last resort and therefore a sign of severe financial distress.



repulo 4th Sep 2019 17:19


Originally Posted by Plastic787 (Post 10561498)


Is that why Lufthansa have brought all Eurowings Long Haul back to mainline?

(Oh and Air France shut down Joon too).


LH didnˋt bring back the EW long haul ops to the mainline. EW is continuing to expand in the LR market. What was brought back to the mainline is the management of EWˋs LR business.

BluSdUp 4th Sep 2019 19:14

Bondholders not Happy!
 
Jan Petter Sissener , a finance man in Oslo that has made millions on shorting NOR stocks and a 17% owner of a 250 million euro obligation loan ending in December is not happy with the fact that Norwegian went public with this rather hairbrained idea of using the Gatwick slots as colateral/guarantee for extension of the loan. BEFORE asking him and other bond owners!
I would agree with him, how desperate can You come across , this did drop the stock by over 10%.
BTW
He wants a final and LARGE financial restructure , and he still thinks the Company is viable!

And considering he also is stuck with a rather big portfolio of Stocks, he would talk it up.
This chap is if anything an honest gambler, and quite a few listen to him.
So lets see what he decides.
If he says: NO! I would considering updating my CV.

Regards
Cpt B

MCDU2 5th Sep 2019 08:46

Its viable if it scales back to what it did best but I am not sure that fits into the vision that the existing management have. Seems like a willy waving exercise at the expense of the stakeholders. No matter what way you look at it selling off the assets, putting up slots as collateral and sale and leasebacks whilst your credit card company has placed restrictions on your cashflow is not a viable way to be running the business. Oh and winter is here and fuel has never been so cheap so all of their competitors have already booked the profits and have cash in the bank to get them through till next year.

PS: Would Level not be part of IAG Cargo and have an additional revenue stream?

krismiler 5th Sep 2019 13:15

The only way long haul low cost seems to work is if a full service airline off loads routes on which it can't make a profit to its own subsidiary. It knows the route and the income it can generate, which may not be enough to cover the mainline operating costs, but will allow a profit if the operation is peeled back to the basics with staff on lower pay, no frills and high density seating.

The subsidiary benefits from the parent company's purchasing power when it comes to buying aircraft, fuel, maintenance, insurance and back end support which it would not have as an independent entity. Crews can be seconded and aircraft provided in the event of disruption. Access to the frequent flyer program and connecting flights can be provided within the network.

A stand alone long haul low cost would battle to survive without a backer with deep pockets.

Rwy in Sight 5th Sep 2019 16:57


Originally Posted by krismiler (Post 10562502)
The only way long haul low cost seems to work is if a full service airline off loads routes on which it can't make a profit to its own subsidiary. It knows the route and the income it can generate, which may not be enough to cover the mainline operating costs, but will allow a profit if the operation is peeled back to the basics with staff on lower pay, no frills and high density seating.

The subsidiary benefits from the parent company's purchasing power when it comes to buying aircraft, fuel, maintenance, insurance and back end support which it would not have as an independent entity. Crews can be seconded and aircraft provided in the event of disruption. Access to the frequent flyer program and connecting flights can be provided within the network.

A stand alone long haul low cost would battle to survive without a backer with deep pockets.

Air Asia seems to be successful without following that model.


Doors to Automatic 5th Sep 2019 23:01

Look out for Q3 results around Oct 10, with a profits warning five or so days before (if applicable). It needs to show a profit similar to last year for the airline to have enough cash to make it through the Winter. If it shows anything else and if the bond extension is not agreed, I would expect a very challenging Winter.

Flying Clog 6th Sep 2019 04:31

I fly around Asia, and can pretty much say I've NEVER seen an Air Asia wide body. I know they exist, but they must be extremely thin on the ground compared to their short haul a320 ops.

medod 6th Sep 2019 08:32

Air Asia has no wide-bodied. Air Asia X is their low-cost long-haul subsidiary, with A330s.

clipstone1 6th Sep 2019 08:56

I believe AirAsia X has 24 A330 in Malaysia, 2 in Indonesia and 11 in Thailand

krismiler 6th Sep 2019 15:08

The financial performance of AirAsia X hasn't been brilliant even though the incidents with Malaysia Airlines put a lot of people off the national carrier. The Malaysian A320 operation has grown massively and generally been profitable, mixed results have been experienced with subsidiaries started in other countries.

There is the possibility of taking over Malaysia Airlines if the turn around plan doesn't work out.

ironbutt57 7th Sep 2019 00:58


Originally Posted by krismiler (Post 10563478)
The financial performance of AirAsia X hasn't been brilliant even though the incidents with Malaysia Airlines put a lot of people off the national carrier. The Malaysian A320 operation has grown massively and generally been profitable, mixed results have been experienced with subsidiaries started in other countries.

There is the possibility of taking over Malaysia Airlines if the turn around plan doesn't work out.


in fact Air Asia has turned some 330 orders into 321...

Doors to Automatic 7th Sep 2019 19:22

I thought this was a thread about Norwegian? :ok:

babemagnet 11th Sep 2019 10:10

On ch aviation:

Prominent Norwegian shareholder rejects bond extension

cant read it its for Pro only

Fladbrokeandbusted 11th Sep 2019 15:38


Originally Posted by babemagnet (Post 10567231)
On ch aviation:

Prominent Norwegian shareholder rejects bond extension

cant read it its for Pro only

yes story om Borsen.dk today that They refused to postpone the repayment of the Loan to norwegian. Norwegian has offered Security in the Gatwick slots but so far sissener apparently refused to Extend the loan further .

The problem with norwegian is fundamentally wrong financing of the entire Company, Along with Bad leasing deals etc. Lenders did last week, According to borsen, say that they lost confidence with norwegian and did not see any solutions in the long run.

Sissener along with a few others is able to sink the entire turnaround for norwegian as they Are the biggest lender.
They have 3.4 mia norwegian kr due by Dec this year and Next year from norwegian which they now have refused to extend without more Equity Beeing put into the Company.

Seems like dire times for norshuttle.

BluSdUp 11th Sep 2019 18:30

Sissener votes NO!
 
This chap is fed up with the muppets that run Norwegian.
He has 60M euro worth of useless unsecured Bonds if they fold. He wants security. He wants a restructuring of the loans and a massive cash insertion by the Stock owners.
On Monday he votes NO!

calypso 11th Sep 2019 18:42

Nope, he wants to convert the bonds into shares. He says as much on a number of interviews.

directmisbi 11th Sep 2019 19:54

Who cares what Sissener wants. He doesn't have majority, not even among the other bondholders. His little dog and pony media show? Coming to a circus near you...Remember most of the bondholders are never disclosed, but my best guess is
that Mr John Fredriksen is probably the biggest bondholder, and thus Norwegian and Kjos are all smooth sailing from here..
Even with 19 max grounded, and 10 787 very much on terra firma and going through inspections, the CFO still guiding the markets of a full year operating result 2019 with a 100 percent improvement compared to last year. I call that pretty impressive in the current market conditions.Norwegian Air Shuttle (“NAS” or the “Company”) preliminary result of vote relating to proposed amendments to its two unsecured bonds NAS07 and NAS08

Reference is made to the stock exchange notice published on 2 September 2019 relating to a proposal for certain amendments to its two unsecured bonds NAS07 and NAS08, and subsequent adjustment announced to the stock exchange notice published on 9 September 2019. Upon expiry of the early bird fee deadline and based on a preliminary basis, the Company has received confirmation from the financial advisors that they have reasonable visibility of the receipt of positive voting undertakings and proxies representing more than 2/3 of the total voting bonds relating to NAS07 and NAS08. Please note that the calculation of the number of votes is preliminary only and remains subject to potential adjustments through a verification process currently being undertaken by Nordic Trustee AS. The final result will be announced once confirmed by Nordic Trustee AS on 16 September 2019 after the announced Bondholders’ meetings. DNB Markets, a part of DNB Bank ASA, and Pareto Securities AS have been retained as financial advisers for NAS


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