Don't get me wrong, I have all the sympathy in the world for the crew who find themselves in this predicament by no fault of their own.

However.

Generally speaking, do you think governments should bail out financially irresponsible companies at the expense of more prudent ones? Maybe it's time for the market to adjust to a new reality and for some of the "unhealthy" over capacity to go away.

You’d have to define where you draw that line . Free market economy and all that . Risk often leads to reward .

Personally I’d rather see a couple of the companies that treat their crews like 1880s workhouse inhabitants disappear .

Risk leads to reward - or defeat. Otherwise it isn't risk. Question here is; whose defeat? The company that took the risk or someone else? There isn't enough chairs for everyone in the current market.

...so whilst I agree with your statement above, state aid to Norwegian would not achieve this goal. Proper regulation and governance would.

Personally I think the most sensible solution would be for Norwegian to make its own destiny. If required, the various States where Norwegian crew were paying their taxes, should pay salaries and recency training until such time the crews are able to find employment again. Hopefully with financially responsible, decent airlines...

Well maybe the government in Norway, seems a lot of these routes socially important and steps in cover those....and the aircraft lessors who have a bucket load of 78s idle, bail out the LH restart ?

There’s ways it could still flourish , if handled carefully

SmokeAndNoise

Why should they receive much more favourable treatment than waiters, hairdressers, salesmen, fitness-trainers ? I see no reason at all.

11 Airframes which are not leased, less 2 just sold:

https://simpleflying.com/norwegian-boeing-787-sale/

That only leaves 9 airframes to deal with as the "leased" ones are basically costing them nothing, other than maintenance, which is being accrued as a debt.

Looks like the USA routes from LGW are no longer starting Dec 9th, most/all now appear mid March 2021, which strangely is in line with the original rescue plan.

For those of us accused of not knowing the facts, or more than management, or making wild speculations!

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...as-of-23oct20/

At least some good new for the LH LGW crews..

Yes, I’ll go and book with them now and take a gamble with my money..... not!

That sounds positive, complete opposite on what was reported on PPJN

Norwegian Government have held a press conference where they seem to have ruled out investment.

https://apple.news/A8vQDJ9mfQ-mblPAnZcAD5w

Not the best news combined with the fall in revenues of 96% for October.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...clines-new-aid

Looks like they may be supported on "Domestic" routes only, and if Wizz picks up the baton for international flights that takes pressure off the government.

This scenario is similar to the Olympic collapse where PSO routes were supported only.

Needs a golden egg and quickly

True, no help from the norwegian government. This is fair enough, the company has no future post corona,without the neccessary muscles to fight with Ryanair, Wizz Air and Easy Jet.
No investor wishes to put money into this bottomless hole, all who have done so over the last few years have burnt their fingers.
It is better to likvidate the company and start over, Braathen is already working on starting a new airline in Norway.

15 of the remaining 21 aircraft in production grounded as of tomorrow. 1600 more staff on furlough.

It is curious to see that from one side the Norway government scream against Wizz (working conditions, no-union allowed policy and so on....) and on the other side sentence to death Norwegian (always been way more ethical then Wizz, Ryanair and others) opening de facto the traffic and the country to those unethical reality.
It’s like you stand against racism then you kick out of your porch your cousin letting a redneck arian brotherhood trailer park style guy camp there 😒
May the government aim to some kind of negotiation?

Screaming doesn’t cost 5-6 billion NOK (the amount Norwegian asked for). The Chinese and Irish owners refuse to put a cent into their company, so why should the government?
They can’t refuse Wizz from flying in Norway, but the right to join a union is fundamental in Norway. Wizz going head on against this may not the smartest thing to do.

Wasn't Norwegian the company that based European pilots in Bangkok, with self employment agency contracts from Singapore. And operated said pilots between london and New York. Don't misunderstand me, I have no ax to grind with Norwegian, but in my eyes they don't hold any sort of moral high ground in relation to worker rights.

I agree with you about the cost, still a contradictory behavior i guess. Especially when not supporting Norwegian’s operations will lead eventually in termination of many norwegian people. Playing devil’s advocate: did they withdraw also support to the others (SAS....)?
I don’t know as my knowledge on this particular thread is marginal.
Regarding Norwegian business plan....without RR and MAX issues you believe that with almost 200 aircraft wouldn’t been a good gig anyway?

Further reporting from Reuters...

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-no...-idUKKBN27Q0N2

This about sums it up:
Any dreams of 787 flying are just that at the moment. Liquidation and buyout of the LH may be an option.

I see there is a fundraiser for Norwegian that pilots/staff are donating too for appreciation of how much Norwegian have given them, sadly I think it’s been poor leadership and abuse of pilots terms and conditions even in the stable period, I hope the money given or donated to this fundraiser doesn’t end up in the directors back pocket.

are you actually serious? Is this actually happening?

Serious indeed!

https://www.facebook.com/donate/4148...8740135647991/

Just reach into your wallet and pour those Dollars into the endless hole.
This Captain who initiated the fundraiser must be oblivious to the fact why Norwegian got in to this predicament in the first case and also desperate (?) enough to pay to get his job back.
Or maybe I just don't get people these days?

Whoever is pouring money into that joke of a fund clearly have no self respect.

I would be really careful there.

Maybe it is really a serious fund, honestly willing to support Norwegian, well 85.000.000 USD - wow - a bit far off reality. But okay.
But there is at least the possibility of a risk, that this guy just wants fill his pockets by taking advantage over the difficult situation the employees (or even colleagues) of Norwegian currently are.

Think it will take more than one person to save Norwegian, how can people who donated money in there be so naive?

it is all relative, according the FB funding stats, they try to get 85 millions EUR in the next 44 days . they got 82 replies and 2500 euros so far , so 30 eur per person on average , at this rate to get to their 85 M they would need to convince 3 million people :hmm:

where does it stop, assuming Norwegian survive this person will next suggest to the blind followers:-

Lets all pay our hotel rooms ourselves and taxis to and from the airport

as a bonus let’s also pay the fuel we uplift too.

Getting worse

Norwegian Suspends Passenger Refunds & Reports 1B NOK Loss For The Third Quarter

Well if they are really unable to pay obligations, it would require them to file for bankruptcy right now or at least within a short period of time.

The bit I do not quite understand is the role of Wizzair in that . I know Norway is not in the EU so why is a Hungarian airline now operating domestic flights in there ? Was that the reason the Norwegian government refused to further bail them out ?

One can only speculate for the reason why they "refused", I would chose to use the word "declined" instead.
They probably got to see some of their books and saw that what ever the airline is saying is not deemed to be realistic.

Edit:

At this point in time it is a overstatement to say that Norwegian is critical to the Norwegian infrastructure. That argument is not valid.
They have SAS (who is being held under the arms by the Swedish and Danish state, and partly by subsidised routes in Norway)
Wideroe, and now also Wizz Air to keep the prices down. Oh, and a new start up with one of the Braathens family members.
Why would they dump money into Norwegian?

Norway is not in the EU, but a full member in the single market which does include aviation, therefore any EU airline could offer domestic flights if it wanted, same as Norwegian could do domestic flights in the EU. That is unlike switzerland which is not a full member of the EU aviation agreements.

decoded and Denti thanks or the explanations .Got it.
I just read elsewhere that Wideroe is the only European airline to fly at nearly the same capacity as in 2019 ( only minus 3% last week. ) Norwegian air shuttle is minus 65% and SAS at minus 78%, both in line with the vast majority of the rest of the majors.
So SAS has the capacity to take over the Norwegian shuttle routes , which they mostly shared with them anyway. The fares likely to go up, I agree , but let's get real , is that really a bad thing at the moment ?

Norwegian have dodged many a bullet in the past and whilst they were in a hole pre covid there was a path out that looked possible, few doubt that it was a good product and a good company to work for, I did 8 years, pay always on time, whether that be Conair, Arpi, NAS, OSM, we all knew cost control was a joke, day off money often £1500 a day (double day off payments) often for days on end.

Its only hope is the Norwegian government for whom it would be petty cash with a trillion £ sovereign wealth fund, but you'd have to ask why, cheaper to start from scratch SAS prices will go through the roof.

dcoded

Who said the Norwegian politicians “declined”? The government did, but please do remember that Norway is presently ruled by a minority government, and last time I checked, Norway is still a democracy, and watching this evening news in Norway, this is far, far from over. The opposition are up in arms, and busy forming a coalition in order to save Norwegian. As far as I can gather, the majority of political parties are now willing to go in and save Norwegian. 2021 is also election year, and the Norwegian people love their local airline.
Things can quickly turn around for Norwegian : A vaccine should be available early 2021, the max is about to be recertified and the Boeing billion dollar compensation$$$ ?

Best article I have read so far:

https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/pa...424045532.html

Another interesting article, especially the last part, talking about saving only the Norwegian part of the company:

https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/se...424045855.htmlThe Center Party has already tried to get the FRP and the Labor Party to join a joint crisis package without success, but now Arnstad is coming up with two concrete proposals that she will put forward in the Storting.

She asks party leaders to quickly clarify whether they want to support them:

- One is that we will ask the government to present the same type of support scheme that they have given to the rest of the business community, to the aviation industry. The second is that we believe it is necessary to have a new dialogue with Norwegian to save the Norwegian part of the company, ie the air routes in Norway and the Norwegian workplaces, Arnstad says to NTB.

The Scandi part alone generated more than 20 billion kr in yearly revenue, so I dont see them confined to Norway only. Retrench to Scandi bases with a 100 frames, fortify and build from there. The rest will follow. The politicians are debating as we speak...

And for that you need money from the Norwegian government who is only willing to save the Norwegian part of the company

Selling 100kr notes for 50kr will generate plenty of revenue, but a viable business it does not make!