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-   -   EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607757-ec-notice-brexit-issued-licenses-certificates-invalid.html)

Skyjob 2nd Aug 2018 10:21


Originally Posted by BAengineer (Post 10212281)
Your link doesnt mention Brexit, it only cites the pilot strikes in Dublin. If the cause were anything to do with Brexit what would be gained by moving aircraft from Dublin to Warsaw?

You are right, however it may indirectly have to do with Brexit, where flying rights may not be guaranteed anymore, bookings drop, and the airline prefers to use the UK-route aircraft in other markets, rather than having them sit idle at Dublin in future. How many aircraft does Ryanair use daily for its Dublin-UK flights?

BAengineer 2nd Aug 2018 12:21


Originally Posted by Skyjob (Post 10212607)
You are right, however it may indirectly have to do with Brexit, where flying rights may not be guaranteed anymore, bookings drop, and the airline prefers to use the UK-route aircraft in other markets, rather than having them sit idle at Dublin in future. How many aircraft does Ryanair use daily for its Dublin-UK flights?


Isnt that a bit of a reach considering that it was only last month that Ryanair announced they were creating a base at Southend from next year?. Far more likely that this is simply a bargaining (?) tactic by O'leary in his fight with the Pilots union.

infrequentflyer789 3rd Aug 2018 18:24


Originally Posted by Denti (Post 10212538)
UK government proposed some fudged thing in their white paper where the ECJ is not the final and sole arbiter of the law, which would be required by the EU, but rather that the UK would take those judgements into consideration. Which in the end is simply not the same thing.

Does sound awfully like the arrangement with Switzerland's EASA membership (and maybe other EFTAs - not sure) though doesn't it? Switzerland appears to have issues with ECJ jurisdiction.

Personally I think (and this applies to both sides) that what should be being asked for (at least at this stage) is things that already have precedent, ie. what other non-EU states already get or give. Once you've reached agreement in all the areas where there precedents, then you can move onto the areas where a full-custom-never-done-before solution would be required. Of course I'm not running things so both the sides have gone headlong into "full custom never done before" mode, and a pantomime where the EU says "tell us what you want", the UK says "we want X Y Z cake+eat+knobs-on" and the EU says "that's impossible, tell us what you want".

If, in terms of EASA, the UK did just ask for what the EU already gave someone else then that ought to be progress - the EU can no longer say "that is impossible" for a start. The EU can still say "**** off, you're not having that because we don't like you as much as X" or suck their cheeks in and say "well, that'll cost you...", or whatever, but at least we will have moved from the "impossible" to the negotiable.

Denti 3rd Aug 2018 19:16


Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789 (Post 10213832)
Does sound awfully like the arrangement with Switzerland's EASA membership (and maybe other EFTAs - not sure) though doesn't it? Switzerland appears to have issues with ECJ jurisdiction.

Indeed it does. However, in the end switzerland had to follow an ECJ ruling whereas the swiss final court ruled differently. In this case it was germany vs. switzerland concerning the overfly restrictions over germany for ZRH bound traffic. The result of not following the ECJ ruling would have been a complete withdrawal of all EU-Swiss agreements ending the single market access. However, the swiss still have the single market access including the four freedoms.


Originally Posted by infrequentflyer789 (Post 10213832)
Personally I think (and this applies to both sides) that what should be being asked for (at least at this stage) is things that already have precedent, ie. what other non-EU states already get or give. Once you've reached agreement in all the areas where there precedents, then you can move onto the areas where a full-custom-never-done-before solution would be required. Of course I'm not running things so both the sides have gone headlong into "full custom never done before" mode, and a pantomime where the EU says "tell us what you want", the UK says "we want X Y Z cake+eat+knobs-on" and the EU says "that's impossible, tell us what you want".

If, in terms of EASA, the UK did just ask for what the EU already gave someone else then that ought to be progress - the EU can no longer say "that is impossible" for a start. The EU can still say "**** off, you're not having that because we don't like you as much as X" or suck their cheeks in and say "well, that'll cost you...", or whatever, but at least we will have moved from the "impossible" to the negotiable.

That is basically what Mr. Barnier has put out from the beginning on his famous slide where he has all the different kind of existing agreements and then the UK red lines that prevent using them leaving only the canada option and a border in the irish sea. Every existing option is there, although the EU really doesn’t like the swiss way as it is extremely cumbersome to renegotiate 140 or so agreements for every little change. However, the EU apparently does not want to add any extra cherry on top, because of course the existing agreement parties would then want the same.

Rahul000 5th Aug 2018 04:01

Canary Islands
 
We've been thinking of booking a trip to Spain this year and I'm thinking if where in Canary we will go but I think is a good place to see like what I've read in this article

Airone2977 13th Aug 2018 15:14

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...a94075ccca.jpg

Job advert for EZS, FYI

SpamCanDriver 15th Aug 2018 21:50


Originally Posted by Airone2977 (Post 10222575)

Can you state where the above advert is from Airone2977?
Given the terrible grammar, nonsensical first sentence and all current vacancies listed on EZY website specifically state UK licences are accepted (including EU bases). I would bet good money on it being fake.

bulldog89 16th Aug 2018 06:16


Originally Posted by SpamCanDriver (Post 10224860)
Can you state where the above advert is from Airone2977?
Given the terrible grammar, nonsensical first sentence and all current vacancies listed on EZY website specifically state UK licences are accepted (including EU bases). I would bet good money on it being fake.

Directly from EZY careers website...

Link

henno_b 16th Aug 2018 09:15

why not stay in EASA
 

Originally Posted by Bowmore (Post 10119111)
Why could UK not be a member of EASA after Brexit? Norway, Iceland, Switzerland, Croatia are, and are not EU members.

To remain a member, the UK must recognize the authority of the European Court of Justice because that is the ultimate arbitration authority to EASA. The UK government does not want to accept ANY authority of the EJC, and will also no longer have any influence on the ECJ. Therefore, the UK government does not WANT to stay in EASA.

Norway and Switzerland etc do not have such a chip on their shoulder and accept ECJ, even without having a say in it. It's called pragmatism.

lear999wa 16th Aug 2018 09:52

Apparently Easyjet is going to have its pilots based on the continent transfer their licences to either Germany or Austria.
Project fear; I fear not.

drag king 16th Aug 2018 10:53


Originally Posted by lear999wa (Post 10225258)
Apparently Easyjet is going to have its pilots based on the continent transfer their licences to either Germany or Austria.

Given the farcical way the CAA is presently dealing even with the most ordinary task re. licensing, I guess that's the ONLY sensible thing to do. There is very little "Civil" left while the "Authority" has now become synonymous with chaos.

DK

superflanker 16th Aug 2018 11:25


Originally Posted by henno_b (Post 10225213)
To remain a member, the UK must recognize the authority of the European Court of Justice because that is the ultimate arbitration authority to EASA. The UK government does not want to accept ANY authority of the EJC, and will also no longer have any influence on the ECJ. Therefore, the UK government does not WANT to stay in EASA.

Norway and Switzerland etc do not have such a chip on their shoulder and accept ECJ, even without having a say in it. It's called pragmatism.

The UK said in the "White Paper" that they actually WANT to stay in EASA.
I think it also said that they could accept the ECJ in this particular area (I'm not sure about this last one, please check the WP for clarification).

But of course, the EU is unlikely to accept the UK "cherry picking", and if they don't sign the withrawal agreement (with the North Ireland backstop, etc.) the likely outcome it's a no-deal with the UK being out of every EU agency. So if we don't see a change in the negotiations (by the way, they are sitting today but nothing new is expected), UK will be out of EASA by April 2019.
Perhaps the EU let's UK license holders transfer to an EASA countrie beyond this date, nobody knows.

BAengineer 16th Aug 2018 12:41


Originally Posted by henno_b (Post 10225213)
To remain a member, the UK must recognize the authority of the European Court of Justice because that is the ultimate arbitration authority to EASA. The UK government does not want to accept ANY authority of the EJC, and will also no longer have any influence on the ECJ. Therefore, the UK government does not WANT to stay in EASA.

Norway and Switzerland etc do not have such a chip on their shoulder and accept ECJ, even without having a say in it. It's called pragmatism.

How many times must it be repeated. The UK have requested to stay in EASA and changed their red line on ECJ jurisdiction to accommodate that request.

It is now up to the EU to decide whether they will allow the UK to remain or not.

BAengineer 16th Aug 2018 13:48


Originally Posted by superflanker (Post 10225337)
But of course, the EU is unlikely to accept the UK "cherry picking", and if they don't sign the withrawal agreement (with the North Ireland backstop, etc.) the likely outcome it's a no-deal with the UK being out of every EU agency. So if we don't see a change in the negotiations (by the way, they are sitting today but nothing new is expected), UK will be out of EASA by April 2019.
Perhaps the EU let's UK license holders transfer to an EASA countrie beyond this date, nobody knows.

I dont see why EASA membership needs to be tied to any other deal. For example the UAE follow EASA Regulation through their working arrangement with EASA and the GCAA changed their entire Licensing system to align with EASA. OK they are not a full voting member but to all intents they are a part of EASA, so would it really be such a stretch for the UK to remain a member?

BONES_ 16th Aug 2018 14:42

and it’s also been made very clear “cherry picking” will not be accepted.

Bidule 17th Aug 2018 06:36


Originally Posted by BAengineer (Post 10225494)
I dont see why EASA membership needs to be tied to any other deal. For example the UAE follow EASA Regulation through their working arrangement with EASA and the GCAA changed their entire Licensing system to align with EASA. OK they are not a full voting member but to all intents they are a part of EASA, so would it really be such a stretch for the UK to remain a member?

"Following a regulation" and "being a part of" do not seem to me to be the same thing.... And GCAA are not a part of EASA at all!
Moreover, although no many and not too much significant, there are differences between EASA and GCAA regulations.

BAengineer 17th Aug 2018 12:17


Originally Posted by Bidule (Post 10226079)
"Following a regulation" and "being a part of" do not seem to me to be the same thing.... And GCAA are not a part of EASA at all!
Moreover, although no many and not too much significant, there are differences between EASA and GCAA regulations.

But currently there are no differences between the UK regulatory system and EASA - the UK is just asking that that situation continues.

But the ball is in the EU's court.

bringbackthe80s 17th Aug 2018 13:08


Originally Posted by BAengineer (Post 10226361)
But the ball is in the EU's court.

That’s the problem

The Old Fat One 17th Aug 2018 13:13


But the ball is in the EU's court.
Whilst I think your cliche massively oversimplifies a very complex negotiation, I do I agree that's where we seem to be at this point in time.

The problem, of course, is that many of us (on both sides of the channel) are wondering if the EU will just quietly put the ball in their pocket and casually stroll off the court.

BAengineer 17th Aug 2018 13:23


Originally Posted by The Old Fat One (Post 10226405)
Whilst I think your cliche massively oversimplifies a very complex negotiation, I do I agree that's where we seem to be at this point in time.

The problem, of course, is that many of us (on both sides of the channel) are wondering if the EU will just quietly put the ball in their pocket and casually stroll off the court.

I'm sure the EU politicians would love to do that. But the damage it would do to the aviation sector within the EU would be immense, so I'm hopeful that cooler heads will prevail.


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