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-   -   EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid (https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/607757-ec-notice-brexit-issued-licenses-certificates-invalid.html)

FiveGirlKit 13th Apr 2018 15:13

EC notice on BREXIT issued, licenses/certificates invalid
 
See the link on here https://www.easa.europa.eu/brexit-negotiations , referring to a "NOTICE TO STAKEHOLDERS - WITHDRAWAL OF THE UNITED KINGDOM AND EU AVIATION SAFETY RULES" on the European Commission website, which says:

Certificates issued before the withdrawal date by the competent authorities of the United Kingdom on the basis of the provisions of the Basic Regulation and its implementing rules will no longer be valid as of the withdrawal date in the EU. This concerns in particular:
 Certificates of airworthiness, restricted certificates of airworthiness, permits to fly, approvals of organisations responsible for the maintenance of products, parts and appliances, approvals for organisations responsible for the manufacture of products, parts and appliances, approvals for maintenance training organisations, and certificates for personnel responsible for the release of a product, part or appliance after maintenance, issued pursuant to Article 5 of the Basic Regulation;
 Pilot licences, pilot medical certificates, certificates for pilot training organisations, certificates for aero-medical centres, certificates for flight simulation training devices, certificates for persons responsible for providing flight training, flight simulation training or assessing pilots' skill, and certificates for aero medical examiners, issued pursuant to Article 7 of the Basic Regulation;
 Certificates for air operators and attestations for the cabin crew, issued pursuant to Article 8 of the Basic Regulation;
 Certificates for aerodromes, certificates for ATM/ANS providers, licences and medical certificates for air traffic controllers, certificates for air traffic controller training organisations, certificates for aero medical centres and aero medical examiners responsible for air traffic controllers, certificates for persons
etc

Heathrow Harry 13th Apr 2018 15:26

we're the ones who are leaving - why should they help us????

Everyone was warned that BREXIT would bring chaos............ but hey! we can always depend on the USA & the Commonwealth

ATC Watcher 13th Apr 2018 15:30


Originally Posted by fantom (Post 10117189)
Bastardos...

are you referring to the people that voted to leave the EU or the EASA people ?:E

wiggy 13th Apr 2018 15:43

Well if this is as advertised and is not a spoof or a late April 1st wind up.......Apparently many in the U.K. wanted freedom from the bureaucracy of the EU...presumably those people must see this as a good thing and welcome it with open arms......it would be somewhat hypocritical of them to “blame” the EU or EASA for this announcement..wouldn’t it?

ZFT 13th Apr 2018 15:45

Why are you surprised?

If you leave any club, you lose club 'benefits' and/or privileges

Chaos is quite likely in the short term.

Volume 13th Apr 2018 15:54

Still the UK has the possibility to change from an "EU Member State" to an "EASA Member State" like Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland.
But was that wat everybody wanted? To leave the EU but to keep all EU bureaucracy? I think it was more the opposite...
If you vote for change you can not expect everything to stay the same.

judge11 13th Apr 2018 15:57

Shock horror! UK CAA has to do some work and provide value for it's exorbitant fees.

schweizer2 13th Apr 2018 16:00

It was chaos when we changed to JAA, it was chaos when we transferred to EASA, it will be chaos when we transfer again.... just a new licence, same process... EU or not, it will be a form signed, another 100 quid then we're all set.

Hamburt Spinkleman 13th Apr 2018 16:02

https://i2.wp.com/www.libertyclick.o...nge.png?w=6408

wiggy 13th Apr 2018 16:07

Reading the source document the loss of validity on Brexit day is not something that is inevitable but it is clearly a pointed reminder to whom it may concern that if the UK hasn't reached a satisfactory transition deal with the EU by Brexit day then all that paperwork on the list is immediately null and void...

One would hope that would concentrate a few minds...but I have my doubts...

ImageGear 13th Apr 2018 17:02

This will be sorted - too much would be lost by all Brexit affected parties. Landing rights, overflights,, etc. The potential to seriously damage the industry will prevent this ridiculous posturing from happening.

IG

Hussar 54 13th Apr 2018 17:19

Just add it to the list of stuff to be negotiated over the next couple of years.

If, after, say, two years there is still no agreement, then we probably can conclude that one negotiating party probably doesn't actually want an agreement.

Why that would be ? Well......

aligee 13th Apr 2018 17:28

After reading the link provided I found this to be interesting

The European Union’s aviation safety legislation applies in 32 European countries – the current 28 EU Member States and the following four associated countries: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland. The countries to which this legislation applies will, for the purposes of simplification, hereafter be referred to as "EASA Member States".

Could the 4 associated countries become 5 in the next couple of years ?

OldLurker 13th Apr 2018 17:29

I think people didn't know what they were voting for, in detail anyway. I don't recall EASA being mentioned by the mainstream media during the referendum campaign! If anyone had thought about it, they'd have thought that a sensible arrangement would be made and the UK would continue to be a member of EASA in some way, just as the UK would continue to be associated with various other EU agencies if common sense was followed. The negotiations aren't finished and there's still time to sort out an arrangement, if there's goodwill on both sides.

Icelanta 13th Apr 2018 17:30

UK wanted out, now deal with the consequences.
No negociating or concessions by the EU/EASA.
Boohoo right...

Joe_K 13th Apr 2018 17:36


Originally Posted by Hussar 54 (Post 10117326)
Just add it to the list of stuff to be negotiated over the next couple of years.

Couple of years? Withdrawal date is 29 March 2019. 349 days from now.

Hussar 54 13th Apr 2018 17:48


Originally Posted by Joe_K (Post 10117343)
Couple of years? Withdrawal date is 29 March 2019. 349 days from now.


There will be a prolongation if not sorted and agreed by 29 March 2019.

Don't forget that there are more airlines / crew / manufacturers in the EU than the UK and to whom the sh*t and aggravation of having to meet any new UK legislation ( such as converting EASA licenses to UK licenses, perhaps, for all those EU citizens currently flying for UK based airlines to name just one example ) will be just as worrying / tiresome / problematic as for UK.

And that's not to even mention all the 100,000s of parts that Airbus will have to revalidate to the UK's ' satisfaction '....

HURZ 13th Apr 2018 18:30

UK wants to leave..? Go ahead with all consequences, Europe does not need the Uk...
Sorry for all my UK pilot friends but you made your day by not voting...

ImageGear 13th Apr 2018 18:30

...not to mention that the UK's "soon to be" Aircraft Manufacturing" industry may wish to protect their turf. :E

IG

Hussar 54 13th Apr 2018 19:45


Originally Posted by HURZ (Post 10117374)
UK wants to leave..? Go ahead with all consequences, Europe does not need the Uk...
Sorry for all my UK pilot friends but you made your day by not voting...

Not really too sure there'll be too much of a problem for UK crew....

UK citizen, UK ATPL, etc....

The problems ( if this isn't resolved ) will be for the many non-UK citizens currently based in the UK with Easy, Ryanair, etc.

Do they convert to a UK ATPL which would then mean having to convert back to an EASA ATPL if they want to leave the UK to go back to a job in the EU ??

And a great way for UK citizens working for Easy / Ryanair crew to avoid having to be based in Brindisi or Gdansk or Malta or wherever.

But having said all that - I can't help believing that this is just ' process ' from the EU and as far as our industry is concerned, in two years' time we'll be wondering why any of us even thought it was worth contributing to this thread.

FlyingStone 13th Apr 2018 20:10

Should UK not become an EASA member state after Brexit, UK licences will no longer be EASA-compliant and thus one will be able to hold both a UK licence and an EASA licence at the same time.

Tom Cundall 13th Apr 2018 20:11


Go ahead with all consequences, Europe does not need the Uk...
Really? You sure?

55,573.

alicopter 13th Apr 2018 20:12

quote
But having said all that - I can't help believing that this is just ' process ' from the EU and as far as our industry is concerned, in two years' time we'll be wondering why any of us even thought it was worth contributing to this thread.
unquote

Exactly!!!! can't you see???? the UK will NOT leave the EU, never, and all this is purely " Circus Act "........ In a few months, everything will get back to normal!!!
No worries.

hawkeye 13th Apr 2018 20:59

When the implementation period is agreed EASA will continue to be the licensing authority for the UK. However, the UK would not wish to be beholden to the EU for ever, so it would make sense to re-establish the UK CAA. We have two years and nine months to get the CAA up and running again, which is achievable if the will is there. Whether or not Mike Vivien is up to the job is another question, but apparently 70% of the folk who work for EASA are Brits, so there should be no lack of manpower, if the price is right.

fox niner 13th Apr 2018 21:00

From the moment that the UK joined the EU, the island nation has always asked for exemptions and exeptions from standard EU rulings. Why?
What makes the UK so special that it requires a different treatment compared to any other EU nation? Good riddance.
The UK will become some sort of Taiwan-China, known as UK-EU. Totally dependent and waiting for permission from Brussels in all affairs.

Time Traveller 13th Apr 2018 21:24


Good riddance.
The UK will become some sort of Taiwan-China, known as UK-EU. Totally dependent and waiting for permission from Brussels in all affairs.
Wow, what arrogance (and ignorance), worthy of Junker himself - and you wonder why they wanted out!

marvo999 13th Apr 2018 21:25

How on earth did we survive before EASA?

edi_local 13th Apr 2018 21:35


Originally Posted by aligee (Post 10117336)
After reading the link provided I found this to be interesting

The European Union’s aviation safety legislation applies in 32 European countries – the current 28 EU Member States and the following four associated countries: Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland. The countries to which this legislation applies will, for the purposes of simplification, hereafter be referred to as "EASA Member States".

Could the 4 associated countries become 5 in the next couple of years ?

I doubt EASA would complain, but the UK government seem to want to completely distance themselves from all things European, even if it's related to the EU or not. It's quite a bizarre road to go down. EU withdrawal is one thing, but there is no logical reason why associate membership of external agencies can't be maintained, especially if it will allow at least one industry to continue as it is today and has no direct link to the referendum result or is even something the electorate even know the slightest thing about. Or is May scared that staying in EASA will cause breixteers to riot in the streets?


From the moment that the UK joined the EU, the island nation has always asked for exemptions and exeptions from standard EU rulings. Why?
What makes the UK so special that it requires a different treatment compared to any other EU nation? Good riddance.
The UK will become some sort of Taiwan-China, known as UK-EU. Totally dependent and waiting for permission from Brussels in all affairs.
Couldn't have put it better myself...and I'm in the UK! Has a country ever gone to such lengths to deliberately weaken it's global standing so much? :}

Gertrude the Wombat 13th Apr 2018 21:59


Originally Posted by fox niner (Post 10117496)
From the moment that the UK joined the EU, the island nation has always asked for exemptions and exeptions from standard EU rulings. Why?
What makes the UK so special that it requires a different treatment compared to any other EU nation?

Well, so far as the IR(R) is concerned we've got an answer: the weather.

judge11 13th Apr 2018 22:27


Originally Posted by marvo999 (Post 10117519)
How on earth did we survive before EASA?

Quite easily and happily.

Contact Approach 14th Apr 2018 00:10

What does this mean for all us UK EASA holders?

jack11111 14th Apr 2018 00:44

Doesn't UKIP have all the answers? All they wanted to do was poke out the eyes of the eurocrats. Ok. How did that feel...like revenge?

Enjoy.

4468 14th Apr 2018 01:01

My word. There’s a lot of undemocratic anti Brexit, anti Brit feeling here!

Not really too sure there'll be too much of a problem for UK crew...
Couldn’t have put it better myself.

I don’t foresee any problems for UK residents, using UK licences to fly for UK airlines. Why would there be?

Or air traffic controllers working at UK airports.

On the other hand, those wishing/needing to retain currency on an EASA licence, whilst working in the UK, may have to rethink their employment situation?

Whilst the EU may wish to sabotage/punish the UK. I’m sure the tourist industries of places like Spain, Portugal, Greece, France, Italy etc would miss their British tourists spending their British pounds!

Not to mention a good few other inconvenient truths!

Highway1 14th Apr 2018 01:15


Originally Posted by Contact Approach (Post 10117643)
What does this mean for all us UK EASA holders?

not a lot - EU citizenship is not a requirement to hold an EASA Licence

Highway1 14th Apr 2018 01:17


Originally Posted by 4468 (Post 10117678)

On the other hand, those wishing/needing to retain currency on an EASA licence, whilst working in the UK, may have to rethink their employment situation?

Why? - you can hold an EASA licence in any country in the world and keep it current as long as you meet the recency requirements.

Dan Winterland 14th Apr 2018 04:32

The CAA gives the option for EASA licence holders to be issued a parallel UK licence free of charge if a citizen of the UK. As a result, I hold both EASA and UK ATPLs. I suspect many EASA ATPLs issued by the CAA are also mirrored UK ATPLs.

And if you're applying for an ATPL issued by the UK CAA over the next year - top tip. Tick the box!

Cows getting bigger 14th Apr 2018 05:36

..... yawn. We are all ICAO compliant, yes?

4468 14th Apr 2018 06:02


Why? - you can hold an EASA licence in any country in the world and keep it current as long as you meet the recency requirements.
How will you keep an EASA licence current? When your 6 monthly checks are signed up on a UK CAA licence??:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

No problem at all for UK residents flying for UK airlines.

Bearing in mind EASA’s approach, why would anyone in the UK give a monkey’s about another agency’s licence requirements? What do UK citizens have to lose??:rolleyes:

Nothing!

Flocks 14th Apr 2018 06:49

If not deal found (what I ll really find it surprising ... But this Brexit thing seems to be more about politics playing for themselves than really consideration for the people living in the country ...)

So ... If no deal found. I believe like said before, me I have an EASA licence but I m flying in Uk for a UK airline. So I believe Uk CAA will give me a UK licence based on my EASA so I ll have 2 licence. Now when I ll go to the sim to renewed my rating, it will only renewed my UK one, and I ll have on my own money to do the same test with private ATO to renew my EASA rating if I still want to be apply to apply to any EASA country.

But again I will be surprised if UK CAA doesn t stay with the European open SKY.

Denti 14th Apr 2018 07:00

I think it equally unlikely that no deal will be found, however, the note doesn't say what you think. Yes, the UK might simply hand out licenses for whatever pilots they want to. However, your UK EASA license will be invalid on 30/03/2019. So you will not be able to renew any rating on that license, after all the license is no longer valid at all. However, if you transfer it to another EU country before that date, it will of course remain valid.


Originally Posted by Flocks (Post 10117904)
If not deal found (what I ll really find it surprising ... But this Brexit thing seems to be more about politics playing for themselves than really consideration for the people living in the country ...)

So ... If no deal found. I believe like said before, me I have an EASA licence but I m flying in Uk for a UK airline. So I believe Uk CAA will give me a UK licence based on my EASA so I ll have 2 licence. Now when I ll go to the sim to renewed my rating, it will only renewed my UK one, and I ll have on my own money to do the same test with private ATO to renew my EASA rating if I still want to be apply to apply to any EASA country.

But again I will be surprised if UK CAA doesn t stay with the European open SKY.



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