Originally Posted by SFIM
(Post 10338226)
I would love to know how many applications the IAA have been recieving, they must be crazy busy. about 1/2 of my colleagues (all the UK licence holders) have applied this week! Last endorsement I added in October was done for 2 weeks sharp. I hope they have some mandatory deadlines otherwise it can take months. |
they must be crazy busy or are UK operators now encouraging their pilots to get eu easa licences so as to hedge their bets? simple adding of endorsement If you wouldn't mind the question, when you say "simple adding of endorsement", this means that you are adding a new rating to your licence, or you did an LPC and the Examiner choose not to endorse the licence, and therefore you have to apply for a new licence ? In my view the first possibility is slightly more work for the IAA, then the second possibility. Will have to do an LPC sometime in the near future , hence my curiosity ... |
Originally Posted by zerograv
(Post 10338554)
If you wouldn't mind the question, when you say "simple adding of endorsement", this means that you are adding a new rating to your licence, or you did an LPC and the Examiner choose not to endorse the licence, and therefore you have to apply for a new licence ? In my view the first possibility is slightly more work for the IAA, then the second possibility. Will have to do an LPC sometime in the near future , hence my curiosity ... |
If other CAA's can do it in 7 days timeframe I suppose every CAA can do it as well. i believe the UK CAA are saying 19 working days to turn around the Doc 155 and send it to the IAA (or wherever) however the IAA seem to be making the initial request more or less immediately which is nice. |
Originally Posted by SFIM
(Post 10338675)
the UK CAA don’t do anything in 7 days in my experience, I have had the misfortune to have asked for a licence verification letter many times and it always takes a month. |
Nebojsar
Thanks for your feedback ! It certainly sounds an awful long time to add a TR to a licence. Admittedly, up to last year, the UK CAA used to be very good. Was always able to get everything done on same day, often in 1 morning, or less, by using "Same day service". As long as all the paperwork was correct, there would be no problems. This year the whole hell broke loose ... |
Hello all, I’ve been following this thread for a while now and am just about to complete my PPL under Austro Control. issuing me an Austrian PPL. My intention is to move straight onto ATPL’s and it seems the sensible thing to do is do them with an EASA member state, BBS are offering this from the UK however my main choice is probably Bartolini air... regardless is this a good idea for the following reson? If I get my ATPL from an EASA country and then after Brexit do not have the right to live or work in that country (British National). Would that not mean the EASA ATPL’s have been for nothing? On the other hand assuming you gain employment with an airline in the EU you can then live there. Then what if I wanted to fly in the UK again has it been announced if it’s possible to transfer EASA to CAA? I plead ignorance but there’s a lot to take in here and I’m trying to make the most informed decision I possible can. If you were to begin your ATPL exams next year where would you go? Cheers in advance. |
Originally Posted by nord121
(Post 10339019)
Hello all, I’ve been following this thread for a while now and am just about to complete my PPL under Austro Control. issuing me an Austrian PPL. My intention is to move straight onto ATPL’s and it seems the sensible thing to do is do them with an EASA member state, BBS are offering this from the UK however my main choice is probably Bartolini air... regardless is this a good idea for the following reson? If I get my ATPL from an EASA country and then after Brexit do not have the right to live or work in that country (British National). Would that not mean the EASA ATPL’s have been for nothing? On the other hand assuming you gain employment with an airline in the EU you can then live there. Then what if I wanted to fly in the UK again has it been announced if it’s possible to transfer EASA to CAA? I plead ignorance but there’s a lot to take in here and I’m trying to make the most informed decision I possible can. If you were to begin your ATPL exams next year where would you go? Cheers in advance. As far as i know the UK CAA will accept EASA licenses to transfer them into UK ones, but who knows how that will change? |
Maybe a small reprieve coming for 9 months in the event of a No Deal. Just need the defination of “Certain Aviation Safety Licenses” Transport The Commission has today adopted two measures that will avoid full interruption of air traffic between the EU and the UK in the event of no deal. These measures will only ensure basic connectivity and in no means replicate the significant advantages of membership of the Single European Sky. This is subject to the UK conferring equivalent rights to EU air carriers, as well as the UK ensuring conditions of fair competition.
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The detail seems to be in these documents which I cannot find:
v Commission proposal for a Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on common rules ensuring basic air connectivity with regard to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the Union (COM(2018) 893 final). vi Commission proposal for a Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council on certain aspects of aviation safety with regard to the withdrawal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland from the Union (COM(2018) 894 final). |
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Brexit: European Commission implements ?no-deal? Contingency Action Plan in specific sectors assuming “flight crew licences” can be somehow tagged along, looks like a 9-month grace period which I queried somewhere on this thread awhile ago. Hopefully, now that some legal framework exist, EASA will give further guidance. |
Aviation – safety 12.
What does the Commission's proposal on aviation safety concretely include? In case of no deal, the Commission’s proposal for a Regulation: *extends for a limited period of time – 9 months – the validity of certain certificates (in particular type certificates) that can only be issued by the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) on the basis of certificates issued by the UK once it is a third country. *ensures that parts and appliances, for which a certificate of conformity was issued by a UK company before the withdrawal date, can still be used in and on aircraft although the company that issued the certificate is no longer entitled to issue new certificates. |
While seemingly some respite is being provided on licences, there are some other restrictions:
...the total seasonal capacity to be provided by UK air carriers for routes between the United Kingdom and each Member State shall not exceed the total number of frequencies operated by those carriers on those routes during respectively the IATA winter and summer seasons of the year of 2018. The Member States shall neither negotiate nor enter into any bilateral agreements or arrangements with the United Kingdom on matters falling within the scope of this Regulation. They shall not otherwise grant UK air carriers, in connection with air transport, any rights other than those granted by this Regulation. UK air carriers shall submit the operational plans, programmes and schedules for air services to the competent authorities of each Member State concerned, for their approval. Any such submission shall be made at least 30 days prior to the start of the operations. |
A question, as a no deal Brexit is been discussed more seriously. What will Ryanair do on 29th March 2019 at 23:00?
512 |
...will cancel most of UK flights departing after 2pm and commence the AC translocation to Ireland and Continental Europe?
|
No, because the provisions of COM(2018)893 will allow the continuation of flights between the UK and EU at existing frequencies. That's assuming the UK insists on the same terms.
So no increase in frequency between UK and any of the EU27 States by any carrier, based on S18 and W18 capacity. That's how I read it |
Originally Posted by sewushr
(Post 10339630)
No, because the provisions of COM(2018)893 will allow the continuation of flights between the UK and EU at existing frequencies. That's assuming the UK insists on the same terms.
So no increase in frequency between UK and any of the EU27 States by any carrier, based on S18 and W18 capacity. That's how I read it More worryingly: "UK air carriers may... perform scheduled and non-scheduled international air transport services for passengers, combination of passengers and cargo and all-cargo services between any pair of points of which one is situated in the territory of the United Kingdom and the other one is situated in the territory of the Union" No mention of UK carriers being able to operate intra-European services in the style offered by bmi. Likewise by reciprocation if Ryanair has any UK domestic routes left - can't remember whether it does? Maybe an impact on Stobart Air's proposed Newuay-Southend too. Possibly a problem for West Atlantic's G-reg 737s in Europe, and the SE-reg ATPs operating solely within the UK. |
Brexit
Dont forget that individual countries, finding their aviation freedoms suddenly restricted, may not agree with the EU dictats. Highly likely to ignore and just maintain existing protocols while disputing. |
Originally Posted by EastMids
(Post 10339684)
I presume the UK will reciprocate (retaliate?), meaning 3/4 of 2019 could be no growth in terms of the overall UK-EU market.
Originally Posted by EastMids
(Post 10339684)
No mention of UK carriers being able to operate intra-European services in the style offered by bmi. Likewise by reciprocation if Ryanair has any UK domestic routes left - can't remember whether it does? Maybe an impact on Stobart Air's proposed Newuay-Southend too. Possibly a problem for West Atlantic's G-reg 737s in Europe, and the SE-reg ATPs operating solely within the UK.
BMI sadly under NO circumstance will be able to offer intra European routes, this comes with EU membership and thus is not allowed under any foreseen agreement when Brexit is triggered. Stobart Air will have issues with intra UK routes, unless it acts as Ryanair has done, using a UK AOC, or continue operating by routing aircraft through an out of UK location (IE?) West Atlantic as per BMI, unless aircraft are flying to/from UK on each flight... SE-reg aircraft no intra UK flights... Sad state of affairs, especially to think people wanted this to happen... |
Originally Posted by rightstuffer
(Post 10339746)
Dont forget that individual countries, finding their aviation freedoms suddenly restricted, may not agree with the EU dictats. Highly likely to ignore and just maintain existing protocols while disputing. |
Why are you so certain the UK will reciprocate? We could simply maintain the status quo, especially if it doesnt effect UK businesses. We do not have to increase any paperwork or checks at borders, we do not have to change any rules nor stop any current practices unless WE wish to. Now I accept that is the logical way forward, and politicians seem to lack logic at present but.....
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Originally Posted by Skyjob
(Post 10340095)
100% correct, but UK people voted for this . . .
Sad state of affairs, especially to think people wanted this to happen... |
All of this is extremely academic, I STRONGLY doubt the MPs will let a no deal happen. Just a bunch of free news for a while, nothing to see here |
Originally Posted by BONES_
(Post 10339296)
European Commission - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Brexit: European Commission implements ?no-deal? Contingency Action Plan in specific sectors assuming “flight crew licences” can be somehow tagged along, looks like a 9-month grace period which I queried somewhere on this thread awhile ago. Hopefully, now that some legal framework exist, EASA will give further guidance. I guess this contingency regulation doesn't include individual licenses because the EC assumes that individuals should have 'prepared for all possible scenarios, assessed relevant risks and planned their response to mitigate them' by swapping their license to EU country. Here are the certificates and approvals that will continue to be recognized for 9 months https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info...ects-annex.pdf |
Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s
(Post 10340218)
All of this is extremely academic, I STRONGLY doubt the MPs will let a no deal happen. Just a bunch of free news for a while, nothing to see here Remember these people are politicians because they can't make it in private business. |
Does all this correspondence mean that an EASA licence becomes invalid on 31 March? How so? And what of aircraft certified by EASA?
|
Originally Posted by EastMids
(Post 10339684)
Indeed... quote: "...the capacity which United Kingdom air carriers will be allowed to offer is frozen at pre-Brexit levels expressed in number of flights ("frequencies")." I presume the UK will reciprocate (retaliate?), meaning 3/4 of 2019 could be no growth in terms of the overall UK-EU market. More worryingly: "UK air carriers may... perform scheduled and non-scheduled international air transport services for passengers, combination of passengers and cargo and all-cargo services between any pair of points of which one is situated in the territory of the United Kingdom and the other one is situated in the territory of the Union" No mention of UK carriers being able to operate intra-European services in the style offered by bmi. Likewise by reciprocation if Ryanair has any UK domestic routes left - can't remember whether it does? Maybe an impact on Stobart Air's proposed Newuay-Southend too. Possibly a problem for West Atlantic's G-reg 737s in Europe, and the SE-reg ATPs operating solely within the UK. |
Quote.
Ryanair has launched UK subsidiary for the event so domestic routes can remain to be facilitated. Depending agreement other aircraft may join its UK register to enable UK-EU flights departing from UK afterwards. Worse case and no deal emerges, then aircraft can be relocated to EU markets. BMI sadly under NO circumstance will be able to offer intra European routes, this comes with EU membership and thus is not allowed under any foreseen agreement when Brexit is triggered. 512 |
Article 9 of document 843 says "Certificates of airworthiness, certificates of competency and licences issued or rendered valid by the United Kingdom and still in force shall be recognised as valid by the Member States for the purpose of the operation of air transport services by UK air carriers under this Regulation, provided that such certificates or licences were issued or rendered valid pursuant to, and in conformity with, as a minimum, the relevant international standards established under the Convention." Which, from the point of view of flight crew licenses only says to me that UK issued licenses, ratings etc., will be accepted as valid when operating for UK carriers in the EU.
Document 844 does not relate to flight crew licensing, as you say, apart from Article 5 which says: "By way of derogation from Commission Regulation (EU) No 1178/20119 and Commission Regulation (EU) No 1321/201410, the competent authorities of the Member States or the Agency, as the case may be, shall take account of the examinations taken in training organisations subject to oversight by the competent authority of the United Kingdom prior to the date of application referred to in the second sub-paragraph of Article 10(2) of this Regulation, as if they had been taken with a training organisation subject to the oversight of the competent authority of a Member State." I'm not sure what this means, nor what the "examinations taken in training organisations" could possibly be. |
AW, derogation means that, although UK could become a 3rd country, it will be exempt from 1178 and 1321 and exam results shall (must) will still be recogmised as if they had been taken in an EASA country. Assume (?) this covers the ATPL papers if they have been started but not completed by march amongst others.
|
There appear to be many`experts` including me posting on this Prune thread.
Just remember folks, those of you who still can that is, in the years way before the UK joining the EU, UK aircraft & crews operated into Europe & vice versa, why could this not continue after the EU withdrawl. Just remember, there is still a lot of the world out there, outside the EU & despite the prophets of doom saying otherwise, the world did not stop with the millenium, it will not stop when the UK leaves the EU. Finally, yes the Commonwealth is still out there, try us again, you might find us all are still friends. |
Thank you Kaikohe and though we were mostly unaware of it at the time, some of us are ashamed of what happened to Commonwealth farmers in 1973. Maybe we can redeem ourselves.
|
Originally Posted by kaikohe76
(Post 10341686)
There appear to be many`experts` including me posting on this Prune thread.
Just remember folks, those of you who still can that is, in the years way before the UK joining the EU, UK aircraft & crews operated into Europe & vice versa, why could this not continue after the EU withdrawl. Just remember, there is still a lot of the world out there, outside the EU & despite the prophets of doom saying otherwise, the world did not stop with the millenium, it will not stop when the UK leaves the EU. Finally, yes the Commonwealth is still out there, try us again, you might find us all are still friends. |
Originally Posted by 512
(Post 10340358)
Please can you explain how Ryanair can retain its fifth freedom rights, yet British airlines will lose theirs just because the EU says so. Don't air routes around the world come under the Chicago Convention, which the EU is not even a member?512
Ryanair is making changes to its operation model to ensure flights in UK under fifth freedom rights, if those rights are abolished, are maintained. The UK AOC allows for UK flights in such case, EI AOC will then not be used on those routes. British airlines are able to do the same, by setting up EU subsidiaries, as easyJet has done. |
A question regarding Brexit and UK EASA license. I am currently employed by a UK airline and have been told that I will be required to hold a UK license post Brexit. Would it it be possible to change my UK license to another EASA state such as Ireland and also keep a UK license as well? |
As I understand it “today”, you would have to change your UK EASA licence now for another countries EASA licence (time is very short now as it has to complete before 29 March) then you would have to wait until 29 March then apply for a UK licence on the basis of your foreign EASA one (who knows how long that would take) this could potentially lead to a break in service. As I understand its not possible to have a EASA licence and a UK licence (or even apply for a UK one) until we have left EASA. |
I agree with the reply from SFIM. However, the CAA has said that EU licences will remain valid for the UK for at least 2 years after Brexit, so perhaps check again with your employer.
The CAA has said that those who transfer can also have a UK FCL licence after Brexit. The FAQ on their website says: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If I transfer my licence to another EASA member state, can I be issued with a UK licence after March 29 2019 Yes, this process is under review. Further advice will be added to this microsite when available. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The CAA's EU Microsite is quite well hidden. You need to google "CAA Exit" to find the main page. Then well down the page, buried in the text, you will find the word 'microsite' as a link, which takes you to the detailed stuff, including the FAQ One wonders why it is so well hidden. Perhaps the CAA is concerned about losing control and revenue if the majority of pilots and organisations transfer to other member States. There is a potential trap for you and any colleagues here. If you don't transfer you licence to another EU State and then in a few month's or years from now, your employer decides to become an EU airline (by moving their head office abroad), you will have to get a Part-FCL licence to continue to fly with them. According to current EU rules that will mean taking your exams again. And you would also need to do that if you wanted to leave your current job to fly for any EU operator. There is an article on this in the current issue of Flight Training News - and on their website. In your position I would draw that to the attention of your employer and ask them to think again. |
Closing date for license transfer passed?
https://info.caa.co.uk/eu-exit/commercial-pilots/
Q. When is the latest I could apply to transfer my licence to another EASA member state to get my licence in time for 29 March 2019? A. "The CAA has no control over the issuance process of other EASA Member States, we therefore recommend that you contact the proposed NAA directly on these matters. To enable the CAA time to complete its part in the licence transfer process, the CAA advises that application forms from the NAA need to be submitted to the CAA by January 1 2019. We will endeavour to transfer any application received after this date, but the process may not be completed by 29 March 2019." Note that it says the forms need to be from the NAA not the applicant so that deadline is passed now. |
I can reassure that under current procedures, there is no break in your licensing continuity as you switch from one to the other - your current licence remains valid until the point at which you have your new licence in your hand - I had this confirmed by the CAA. |
As I understand its not possible to have a EASA licence and a UK licence (or even apply for a UK one) until we have left EASA. So far small piece of advise: THE EU has no fear about uncontrolled exit, highly recommend to look for an EASA licence if possible. |
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