'stuck' rudder pedal during landing roll out; Boeing 737 MAX 8

[BugBear]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

That has a sadly familiar ring to it.

As In...787 E batteries Fires ""GroundingFleet""
Better no Rudder than no VS?
Rudder explosive ejector pins for R INOP?
There is that FireBox ejector Tube on the Dream...

​​​​​​Boeing...class clown
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"...T​​​​he manufacturer said the issue was fixed by replacing three parts. The plane has made dozens of passenger-carrying flights since then, according to data from FlightAware...." Reuters
SO... Whew, now we can relax...

Wait.... Just like in flight with passengers before the Grounding of 787??

AGAIN "...FLIGHT TEST IN Commercial Carriage"
Was there at just one Test Flight? Maybe with some Boeing Brass aboard...? Seems Fair

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[MechEngr]

"only after United discovered their existence on its own airplanes"

This is like finding the cruise control actuator on a car optioned with cruise control.

It would be pretty shabby of any maintainers not to look over the list of parts they were responsible for.

[BugBear]

Originally Posted by MechEngr

"only after United discovered their existence on its own airplanes"

This is like finding the cruise control actuator on a car optioned with cruise control.

It would be pretty shabby of any maintainers not to look over the list of parts they were responsible for.

Shabby? Too Kind. Some Pax would like to know

"...A half Truth is a Whole LIE..." Chinese saying

As much as Chinese ownership of Boeing, could we take that to Heart Mr. Ortberg!??

[Verbal Kint]

Originally Posted by MechEngr

"only after United discovered their existence on its own airplanes"

This is like finding the cruise control actuator on a car optioned with cruise control.

It would be pretty shabby of any maintainers not to look over the list of parts they were responsible for.

It’s not a feature UAL have installed on their other ~ 500 x 737’s, so not something they were familiar with

[BugBear]

Originally Posted by Verbal Kint

It’s not a feature UAL have installed on their other ~ 500 x 737’s, so not something they were familiar with

​​​​​​POM..
Familiar? I don't understand... There is an exploded schematic in the Pilot Manual? No?
IN the MX manual every new hire A&P track star is handed?

I visited MOC with a pilot. Years ago. On the flight deck of a jacked up 747 I asked him how many times he'd visited the facility in his decades long career at the line .... "...Let's see... First time..." As a 'wrenchman' I was pretty discouraged. I grew up next door to a PanAm Captain. Flying boats to wide bodies..my hero ... He could draw diagrams of every part of every aircraft he'd ever flown...he spent hours with me, teaching me Bernoulli...I'm twelve at the time...
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[Verbal Kint]

Nope. Dual channel A/P with no rudder channel, therefore no rollout guidance, except for the 9 x ‘white tails’ that snuck in and which no one knew anything about 😆

[BugBear]

Originally Posted by Verbal Kint

Nope. Dual channel A/P with no rudder channel, therefore no rollout guidance, except for the 9 x ‘white tails’ that snuck in and which no one knew anything about 😆

Sheesh

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[Big Pistons Forever]

WHUT ! A safety critical system the pilots or in this case even the airline, didn’t know about 😳 That’s un-possible on a B737 right 🙄

[Verbal Kint]

Completely unprecedented right .. ?

[WideScreen]

It's not so much the technical faults itself, but the culture of denial, attempting to reduce the issue, defer the attention, etc, that makes people think "Does Boeing really think, I am such an idiot to believe this ?". Or so to say, Boeing's communication leaves behind the impression, this approach is Boeing's common practice towards everything, including the way the company operates internally, when encountering technical issues. Just deny.

[Pilot DAR]

Related article here in Canada:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ntsb-b...fety-1.7338397

[BFSGrad]

The FAA said in a statement obtained by CNN that it has assembled a team to address the issue and is notifying airlines internationally. The regulator is also planning to conduct additional simulator testing in October. "We thank the NTSB for the recommendations, and we are taking them seriously," the FAA said Monday.

​​​​​​​The original fault was duplicated with cold soaking back in February by the NTSB and Collins, yet the FAA still needs to do additional simulator testing 8 months later. This is the FAA taking the issue seriously?

[SLF3]

UK Guardian newspaper online edition says the two previous incidents in 2019 were similar but foreign operators, that the NTSB is saying the FAA are not taking this seriously enough and that there are 271 potentially defective actuators on non US registered 737s. Also says the actuator is an optional extra and Boeing told United to remove theiirs until they were replaced.

Boeing plan more (simulator - CNN) testing in October: presumably by the same bodybuilders as brought you the trim wheel fix for MCAS.

So it’s happened three times, the NTSB say it’s dangerous, the fix is obvious but only applied for US carriers. Which non US regulator will move first?

[EDLB]

Replacing 273 actuators is much cheaper than to dig a speared in 737 out of the ground. Inop flight controls are one of the few things you need as pilot the least. It is neither in Collins nor in Boeings interest to make more top headline news.
Those things start typical with one or more incidents, where the pilots got away with it, until some do not.

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by BFSGrad

The original fault was duplicated with cold soaking back in February by the NTSB and Collins, yet the FAA still needs to do additional simulator testing 8 months later. This is the FAA taking the issue seriously?

Course it is. Didn't you read the article? They have assembled a committee - sorry... a team - to address the issue.

Not sure what more can be done while the committee meets with their morning tea and donuts....

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by SLF3

UK Guardian newspaper online edition says the two previous incidents in 2019 were similar but foreign operators, that the NTSB is saying the FAA are not taking this seriously enough and that there are 271 potentially defective actuators on non US registered 737s. Also says the actuator is an optional extra and Boeing told United to remove theiirs until they were replaced.

Boeing plan more (simulator - CNN) testing in October: presumably by the same bodybuilders as brought you the trim wheel fix for MCAS.

So it’s happened three times, the NTSB say it’s dangerous, the fix is obvious but only applied for US carriers. Which non US regulator will move first?

NTSB follow-up letter to the FAA:

"I [NTSB Chair] am disappointed that it does not appear that the FAA has initiated urgent actions to address the risk of jammed rudder controls in the 6 months since our preliminary report on this incident was issued."

[Hot 'n' High]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

NTSB follow-up letter to the FAA: "I [NTSB Chair] am disappointed that it does not appear that the FAA has initiated urgent actions to address the risk of jammed rudder controls in the 6 months since our preliminary report on this incident was issued."

Back in my Post #54 I was fairly lenient towards Boeing on this. I hadn't hoisted in the fact that this went back so far and that the prelim NTSB report came out 6 months ago.............

Originally Posted by BugBear

Sheesh ​​​​​

BugBear sums it up nicely!!!!

[OldnGrounded]

One might imagine that, even if Boeing and the FAA truly didn't believe that the rollout guidance actuator issue was urgent (sure seems urgent to me), the geniuses in charge would have immediately recognized in February that much of the world would see it as urgent and react accordingly. Wasn't it obvious that, if it wasn't nipped in the bud, the company and the regulator could look forward to hundreds or thousands of alarming headlines and more hard-to-answer questions the next time they're dragged into congressional hearings? Apparently not.

And how did they think telling crews to stomp really hard on the pedals would play with the NTSB and the public?

Talk about slow learners.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by EDLB

Replacing 273 actuators is much cheaper than to dig a speared in 737 out of the ground.

That's an unlikely scenario, given that it's a rollout guidance actuator, though a runway excursion is serious enough.

[SLF3]

As I understand it the actuator is only used on roll out but if stuck due to icing the rudder would be inoperable in flight.

Is that correct?

Is the rudder required in flight or an optional extra? Asymmetric thrust on engine shutdown / failure?