'stuck' rudder pedal during landing roll out; Boeing 737 MAX 8

[Sailvi767]

Originally Posted by Miles Magister

I am left wondering why the crew used the nosewheel steering to take a high speed turn off when they had directional control issues. Why di d they not just run long in a straight line?

It’s likely they slowed to an appropriate speed for using the tiller steering. No need to stay on the runway if the tiller is working and you are at a appropriate speed.

[tdracer]

Originally Posted by Porrohman

Aviation Herald is reporting that another United B38M suffered a runway excursion and main gear collapse at Houston today;

Source; https://avherald.com/h?article=515e3618&opt=0

Just a coincidence or is there a common cause?

It's being reported that the pilot drove it into the grass during very poor visibility conditions. So coincidence.

[olster]

The Max does have cat3B capability. Customer option on the NG that I flew previously. Interesting the HGS with the same operator is not certified for cat3B so is either modes cleared or HGS stowed dependent on crew choice. Beware pprune disinformation. I have no idea what happened in this instance nor whether United have cat3B authorization but would be surprised if they didn’t. I am a current instructor on type.

[1southernman]

Upthread it was mentioned that UAL only had nine planes with the HGS ?...If so I would think that the CAT would be restricted to what's allowed w/o it for commonality purposes across that fleet...B

[Sailvi767]

UAL uses the HUD for cat3b capability.

[GlobalNav]

Originally Posted by Sailvi767

UAL uses the HUD for cat3b capability.

Is it 1 new thing for HGS to be certified for Cat3b? It always used to be Cat3a, I’m pretty sure because it does not contribute to the the automatic rollout. It could be used to monitor rollout, but does it now provide Cat3b rollout steering guidance?

[Sailvi767]

Originally Posted by GlobalNav

Is it 1 new thing for HGS to be certified for Cat3b? It always used to be Cat3a, I’m pretty sure because it does not contribute to the the automatic rollout. It could be used to monitor rollout, but does it now provide Cat3b rollout steering guidance?

You are correct. The HUD gives Cat3A
One strange HUD issue at my airline years ago. They required all approaches with the RVR below 4000 to be coupled if available unless the RVR was below 1200 in which case you were required to hand fly. Never made a lot of sense to me.

[Verbal Kint]

UAL doesn’t do Cat 3B on the 737. None of the NG’s have a HUD. A handful of the MAX’s do. It’s not approved for use and is being progressively removed from those aircraft.

[EXDAC]

Originally Posted by Verbal Kint

UAL doesn’t do Cat 3B on the 737. None of the NG’s have a HUD. A handful of the MAX’s do. It’s not approved for use and is being progressively removed from those aircraft.

Is HUD not approved for use by UAL or not approved for use on any MAX? I have been involved with 3 HUD cert programs (not Flight Dynamics now Rockwell Collins) and would like to learn more about this.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by Verbal Kint

UAL doesn’t do Cat 3B on the 737. None of the NG’s have a HUD. A handful of the MAX’s do. It’s not approved for use and is being progressively removed from those aircraft.

Off topic I know, but why would you want to remove a proven aid to flight safety ?

[STBYRUD]

If the pilots aren't trained for it, its definitely not an aid to flight safety, quite the contrary

[Verbal Kint]

Why don’t they do CAT 3B? I don’t know - very rarely required on the line, & something else to have to train I guess. They do CAT 3A though.

[1southernman]

Originally Posted by STBYRUD

If the pilots aren't trained for it, its definitely not an aid to flight safety, quite the contrary

True...Everybody on the same page and whatnot...Reminds me of when UAL flew the 37 Original and Classic as a combined fleet...I came along after the split but heard stories about the clusters that occurred before the split ...B

[olster]

As I said before I am a current simulator instructor on the NG and Max. I am not authorized to say who I work for. For clarification the customer has the HGS on NG and Max on the LHS and it is sop to use it. Further complication with cat 3. NG authorized for cat3a with HGS. Max authorised for cat3b but no HGS allowed. This may be a regulator driven issue and I am not sure why. The Fail Operational autopilot has Rollout mode and the root cause of the above runway excursions may have something to do with that or not as I am just speculating.

[jetpig32]

Originally Posted by 1southernman

Upthread it was mentioned that UAL only had nine planes with the HGS ?...If so I would think that the CAT would be restricted to what's allowed w/o it for commonality purposes across that fleet...B

Likely these 9 planes were "white tails" that were moved to United while China was slow to clear the MAX.

[BFSGrad]

WASHINGTON (Sept. 26, 2024) — The National Transportation Safety Board Thursday issued urgent safety recommendations to The Boeing Company and the Federal Aviation Administration in response to the potential for a jammed or restricted rudder control system on some 737 airplanes.

NTSB Issues Urgent Safety Recommendations on Boeing 737 Rudder System

[ATC Watcher]

Investigators found evidence of moisture in both actuators, which failed testing. Collins Aerospace subsequently determined that a sealed bearing was incorrectly assembled during production of the actuators, leaving the unsealed side more susceptible to moisture that can freeze and limit rudder system movement.

But then it is a Collins issue not really a Boeing one .

[DaveReidUK]

Two of the NTSB's four Urgent Safety Recommendations are addressed to Boeing.

[Hot 'n' High]

Originally Posted by ATC Watcher

But then it is a Collins issue not really a Boeing one .

That's the same whenever it's a bit of kit manufactured by someone else but fitted to an a/c by the a/c manufacturer which is quite a list. The only one who has the picture of which bits went where (and overall airworthiness responsibility) are Boeing so they have responsibility for sorting it out.

I've seen your car, ATC Watcher, and so, when the old Ferrari Stradale breaks down you'll be straight down to Ferrari when the electric motor goes U/S - you don't care that YASA actually makes the motor!

PS For anyone from YASA legal dept reading this, that's just a random, made-up, illustrative case and is in no way a slight on your ground-breaking products!!!!! And there is an aviation link too as a new world record for all-electric flight of 300.14 kts was set in November 2021 by a YASA-powered aircraft - breaking the previous record by a mere 114.7 kts. And there was a time-to-height record thrown in for good measure!!!!!!

[SLF3]

Seattle Times says Collins identified 353 actuators with the faulty seal assembly delivered since 2017. But only 9 are in the US, all are with United, and all have been replaced. So that is all right, we can relax.

The Boeing fix is for both pilots to apply maximum force to the rudder pedals until the rudder 'unsticks'. What happens when it comes free appears to this SLF to be potentially problematic.

Boeing knows of two incidents with stuck rudder pedals from 2019: did these incidents result from failure of the same actuator, and if so why was nothing done about it?