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Russia - Plane crash lands in field after bird strike

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Russia - Plane crash lands in field after bird strike

Old 17th Aug 2019, 14:43
  #141 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by VH DSJ View Post
People were generally a lot tougher back in those days. After an accident, they can easily put it all behind them quickly and literally move on. No trauma counselling, nor rehab. Gee I hope they got their luggage transferred as well.
Just because they didn't get or have access to counselling, doesn't mean they shouldn't have or would have found no benefit. Times move on...
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 14:47
  #142 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by UltraFan View Post
How exactly does bringing your head closer to the hard plastic of the seat back in front of you improve your chances?
By clearly reducing the momentum G strain on your cervical vertebrae during a forward dead stop collision (as the airbag in your car does). As you say a comprise for the probability of most likely movement scenario but I most certainly wouldn't want my neck and heavy skull flailing about at 150mph
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 14:49
  #143 (permalink)  
 
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Engine option

are there different engine options for the A320/321 series . Would be interested to know ifs the same engines as Sullys aircraft. A bird strike gonna damage any engine but still be interested in the comparison of the engines and the damage that resulted.

Well done to crew, nice to hear a good news aviation safety story from that region of the world
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 14:55
  #144 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Back door View Post
are there different engine options for the A320/321 series . Would be interested to know ifs the same engines as Sullys aircraft. A bird strike gonna damage any engine but still be interested in the comparison of the engines and the damage that resulted.

Well done to crew, nice to hear a good news aviation safety story from that region of the world
Yes, same engines. Both had CFM56’s.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 15:24
  #145 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CEJM View Post


Yes, same engines. Both had CFM56’s.
It's the engine control response to damage that's important, coupled with crew action, if any.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 16:41
  #146 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EnglishMartyn View Post
Speaking in my capacity as a moderately-interested SLF...

For all of you debating the merits of gear up, gear down, this checklist, that checklist etc., surely the important points are these:
1) Aircraft with minimal power due to double bird strike gets down safely
2) Everyone got out safely.

Problem solved, no?
Have you checked the name on the door as you walked in?

Yes, the positive outcome and everyone being alive is the ultimate result. But every crash give us something even more important - a lesson to learn. And since at least some people here are pilots, of course they can't help thinking, "what if it was me". And "what would I do"? This discussion is the way to answer that question.

Or maybe people just like to talk.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 17:03
  #147 (permalink)  
 
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My biggest question to the investigators is, why they continued to roll after the FIRST strike? The cabin video clearly shows at least six birds hitting the left engine, yet the plane kept on rolling. If I understand this recording correctly, they realized the problem with the left engine just 8-19 seconds after the start of the take-off roll, and declared panpan. They were still on the ground when it happened. I just checked, ZIA has 4,600m long runway, enough tarmac to abort and stop. Why didn't they?

And the second question is, why the tower had to explain to the rescue team what they should do. Fourth phrase from the bottom: "Boys, you got the coordinates, the plane crashed beyond the runway. What do you mean you're staying? Move there. Fire engines stay. The rest of the rescue vehicles move there."

YOU'RE A RESCUE TEAM AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!? WHAT THE...
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 17:56
  #148 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of the brace position to improve the passengers' and F/As' chances of walking away from an abnormal landing ?

If not, then what's it for ?
as mentioned above, it's a compromise.

Your seat needs to be upright so the poor side behind you can get out of his during the evac, and so you can reach the seat in front in order to brace.

It may not be effective in all instances though, ask any emergency room doctor who's seen sleeping passengers in road accidents come out unscathed while the awake ones got broken bones or worse from trying to "brace for impact"impaccalling for brace may actually have made things worse in such a short time as pax might have been confused about what to do and adopted wrong position, been midway through and injured themselves.

I'm sure they knew something wasn't right but probably not realising how serious it actually was may have contributed to them all walking away rather than a panic. Just my opinion of course
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 18:06
  #149 (permalink)  
 
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Is there an English translation of that transcript? UltraFan seems to have an unfair advantage here!
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 19:03
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Originally Posted by UltraFan View Post
My biggest question to the investigators is, why they continued to roll after the FIRST strike? The cabin video clearly shows at least six birds hitting the left engine, yet the plane kept on rolling. If I understand this recording correctly, they realized the problem with the left engine just 8-19 seconds after the start of the take-off roll, and declared panpan. They were still on the ground when it happened. I just checked, ZIA has 4,600m long runway, enough tarmac to abort and stop. Why didn't they?

And the second question is, why the tower had to explain to the rescue team what they should do. Fourth phrase from the bottom: "Boys, you got the coordinates, the plane crashed beyond the runway. What do you mean you're staying? Move there. Fire engines stay. The rest of the rescue vehicles move there."

YOU'RE A RESCUE TEAM AND YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!? WHAT THE...
1) V1 exceeded.
2) So easy to be wise after the event.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 19:21
  #151 (permalink)  

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OK guys. Lots of talk on here, but here's a question...Could you have done as well? I posted after the Hudson that, with forty years aviating, it's nice to think I could have, but I very much doubt it.. The same applies here. Impossible situation, everyone survived. Very well done.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 19:39
  #152 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Is there an English translation of that transcript? UltraFan seems to have an unfair advantage here!
The Google Translate version is not that bad:

Transcript of the negotiations of the pilots of the A321 aircraft, which sat down in a field with corn



On the morning of August 15, Airbus 321 Ural Airlines pilots Damir Yusupov and Georgy Murzin landed a plane in a cornfield in the Moscow Region just a few minutes after the departure from Zhukovsky Airport. The reason for the forced landing was the failure of engines, in which flocks of birds fell. Judging by the negotiations with the dispatchers, which we publish below, the pilots gave an emergency signal and reported the failure of one engine almost immediately after takeoff. The controllers, in turn, several times warned the pilots about the migratory birds.

Designations:

Proud - the radio call sign of Zhukovsky airport.
СЖР178 - the call sign of flight U6178.
PAN-PAN - emergency signal.

Negotiations with the airport controller:

06:00:32 - 06:01:45

Pilot: Proud taxiing, good morning, СЖР 178 in the parking lot, allow the weather and the conditions for access to Simferopol.

Dispatcher: Proud, good morning. At the departure of the 12th lane, the wind is 110 degrees, 5 meters, visibility is 7 kilometers, the lower edge is not defined, QNH 1008, QFE 994, temperature 16 degrees, cohesion coefficient 0.5, individual bird flights. For the departure, count the 12th lane. Allowed according to the plan for Simferopol at the take-off course, dial 900 meters, communication with Proud 125.25. Squock will be optional.

Pilot: Received information. The strip in the work is the 12th. In a straight line, we recruit 900, we work 125.25. Squawk additionally, SJR178.

Dispatcher: That's right.

06:05:38 - 06:05:54

Pilot: Allow towing and launch.

Dispatcher: I allow towing to the second point, start on readiness.

Pilot: The second was allowed, launch on readiness, SZHR 178.

06:09:25 - 06:09:46

Pilot: SZHR 178, I ask taxiing.

Dispatcher: SZHR 178, preliminary runway 12 I authorize. Runway 12 behind the escort vehicle at B7.

Pilot: Advance lanes 12 allowed, by B7 behind the escort vehicle.

06:11:20 - 06:11:38

Pilot: SJR 178, preliminary strip 12.

Dispatcher: SZHR 178, work. Bon Voyage!

Pilot: Work. 125,250. Thank you very much, and all the best to you!

Negotiations with an air traffic controller:

06:11:39 - 06:11:57

Pilot: Proud launch, СЖР 178, preliminary runway 12.

Dispatcher: SJR 178, good morning! Occupy executive runway 12. Wind off the ground 110 degrees, 4 meters per second.

06:12:28 - 06:12:51

Pilot: СЖР 178. Ready for take-off.

Dispatcher: Runway 12. I authorize take-off, individual bird flights. SJR 178: Runway 12, take off, SJR 178.

06:14:10 - 06:14:21

Pilot: SZHR, PAN PAN, PAN PAN, PAN PAN, SZHR.

06:14:29 - 06:14:39

Dispatcher: SJR 178.

Pilot: PAN PAN, PAN PAN, PAN PAN, SZHR 178. One engine failure.

Dispatcher: SVR 178, your decision.

06:14:55 - 06:15:09

Pilot: Allow reverse reversal. Height.

Dispatcher: Allowed reverse call.

Pilot: Return call allowed, SZHR 178.

But the pilots did not begin to deploy the plane back to the airport. According to PIC Damir Yusupov, they wanted to return after the failure of one engine. After the pilots realized that the second engine began to lose power and the speed began to fall, they had to land the plane in the nearest place - on a corn field.

06:15:49 - 06:15:57

Dispatcher: СЖР 178 Proudly.

Pilot: Sverdlovsky, we ask for an ambulance and rescue service.

Dispatcher: We are waiting. Your height and how many passengers are on board?

Pilot: Altitude. We performed, sat behind the strip. Passengers 226 and seven crew members.

Dispatcher: Repeat again.

Pilot: 226 and 7 crew members.

Dispatcher: 226 passengers and 7 crew members?

Pilot: 7 crew members.

06:16:52 — 06:16:5706:16:52 - 06:16:57

Dispatcher: СЖР 178, where are you?

Pilot: Minute, SZHR 178. Did the emergency beacon work?

Dispatcher: Once again. Repeat.

Pilot: Did the emergency beacon work for us?

Dispatcher: No, it did not work.

06:18:11 - 06:18:22

Dispatcher: Watching this, SJR 178.

Pilot: Do not distract, we have the evacuation of passengers.

06:19:18 - 06:19:45

Dispatcher: СЖР 178, report the situation.

Pilot: All passengers were evacuated, SZHR 178.

Dispatcher: Victims, victims, tell me.

Pilot: No casualties, injured later.

Dispatcher: Got it later.

06:25:36 - 06:27:31

Dispatcher: СЖР 178 Proudly.

Pilot: At the reception.

Dispatcher: SZHR 178, do not tell me the number of victims?

Pilot: No injuries.

Dispatcher: SJR 178, I understand that there are no victims. All evacuated, understand correctly?

Pilot: All evacuated. Did you find our location? We turned on the emergency beacon.

Dispatcher: All emergency services are notified.

Pilot: Thank you.

06:48:10 - 06:48:29

Pilot: At the reception, SJR 178. At the reception. At the reception.

Dispatcher: СЖР 178, but can you tell me your location?

Pilot: Wait a minute.
Pilot: SJR 178.

Dispatcher: Answered Proud, SJR 178.

Pilot: Coordinates.

EMU: 30.46.55.7 'north latitude. 38̊15.7 East.

Dispatcher: Tell me the latitude again.

Pilot: 55–30.6 north latitude, 38–15.2 east longitude.

Dispatcher: SZHR 178, tell me again the latitude, please.

Pilot: Coordinates 55̊.

Dispatcher: Yes.

Pilot: 6 north latitude.

Dispatcher: There are 6.

Pilot: 15 point 2 east longitude.

Dispatcher: I accepted everything.

Negotiation of a dispatcher with ground services:

04:13:40

Dispatcher: 03, Proud.

03: Answered.

D: Let’s go, inspect the strip.

03: Got it, I'm leaving.

Dispatcher: Especially the “Trap” (pairing the MRD3 with the runway 12/30) and the “B7” area, the presence of birds. Although unlikely, but still.

03: I'm leaving.

06:46:28

05: Proud 05th.

D: Proud answered.

05: Do we need to send a Ramport bus for the passengers, or is it not necessary?

D: Naturally, you need to evacuate passengers with something.

05: Accepted. We send buses. I understood correctly, once again - in the area of ​​the long-distance drive, where are the fishermen?

D: About yes.

05: Accepted.

07: 06.04

05: Proud 05.

D: Answered.

05: Do we stay here or do we go to duty stations, what are we willing to do?

D: Guys, they gave you the coordinates, the plane fell over the lane. What, where do you stay ?! Move out there. Fire engines stand still. The rest of the emergency rescue vehicles all move out there.

05: The emergency services have already left there.

D: Well everyone else is standing there waiting then.
05: Accepted. They stand still.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 19:41
  #153 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by MPN11 View Post
Is there an English translation of that transcript? UltraFan seems to have an unfair advantage here!
You could try the Google Translate version, I tried posting it in a previous comment, but it seems it has to be approved by a moderator for some reason:

https://translate.google.com/transla...b-a34d6b26adfe
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 20:01
  #154 (permalink)  
 
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Admittedly, rescue service did sound a bit disoriented and lackluster in the transcript. Hopefully, they will look into this for future improvement.

The rest is great, though. The time period between the pan-pan and the "don't interrupt, we are evacuating" is astonishingly short.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 20:33
  #155 (permalink)  
 
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Birds on runway procedure

After listening to the radio, it appears that ATC warned the pilots twice about the birds on runway.
1.I did a lot take offs and landings at various airports with the birds "vacating" runway right in front of the airplane. Scary... But never I heard ATC warning me about the birds. Not to mention warned twice. I do not remember if it exists in UK CAP413. I do not remember reading any manuals or local procedures about any actions required by the pilot if he observes birds all round the place. May be, in the worst case, one would report birds to ATC and request for assistance. However, I would not know what to do if ATC themselves warns me about the birds activity right before the take off, twice. I guess it sounds similar to ATC warning about wake turbulence and take off at my discretion, after which I would give it enough time to get around. What do I do when ATC warns me about the birds twice? Open the window and shout at birds? Or steer carefully around the birds on take off? Sound stupid. Any one ever heard this ATC warning and what is the procedure?

2. These Pilots did good, given the pressure and realities.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 20:53
  #156 (permalink)  
 
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The A321 was built as G-OMYA Airbus A321-211 for MyTravel Airways
but NTU

2x CFMI CFM56-5B3/P
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 21:11
  #157 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lomapaseo View Post
It's the engine control response to damage that's important, coupled with crew action, if any.
To be fair loma, I can remember a total of two forced landings due to bird strikes taking out both engines during takeoff (fortunately both with happy endings). Both were A320 series with CFM56-5 engines.
Now, the A320 is a common aircraft with thousands flying, and the CFM56-5 powers a goodly percentage of those. But there are also a whole lot of V2500 powered A320s, not to mention several thousand more 737s powered by CFM56-7 engines (different fan) - and none of those have had bird strike related dual engine power loss. Perhaps it's a statistical fluke, and the CFM56-5 bird strike resistance is just as good as the other engines, but if it was up to me I'd be taking a good, hard look at the -5 bird strike resistance...
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 21:39
  #158 (permalink)  
 
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aviate
navigate
communicate

thats what they did... perfect job... they just aviated.... no bullshit
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 21:45
  #159 (permalink)  
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4600m runway. V1 and Vr are going to be coincident in an A321 and pretty much any aircraft. If there was a bird strike, into the engine before V1/Vr it’s not an easy call to make. Is the engine still producing power? Are there any engine instrument indications suggesting the engine is failing? Bang or swing? Didn’t seem like it in the video. Could it be a tyre burst? Do you want to stop close to Vr with a tyre burst? It’s not cut and dried.

Someone earlier in the thread was banging on about doing the checklist correctly. Tell that to the Swissair MD11 pax and crew who delayed landing at Halifax to finish the SFF checklist before landing. RIP to them all.

On the face of it the crew look like they did a great job under difficult circs’.
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Old 17th Aug 2019, 21:48
  #160 (permalink)  

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Is it not well established that the NYC case had multiple hits beyond the present certification specifications, of all present engines? And we do not know what hit this last one yet. Also, when did it hit.
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